And if in a few months you don’t get the email/letter you wanted from the school you wanted…

[Neverdancedjustamum]

Good luck to those going through the whole audition rounds this year.  I’m sure you’ve all read the good and bad sides of going full time, especially at age 11, on this forum but I just wanted to come on here to provide the “other side” as such. We have no experience of full time vocational school because we didn’t.  That there is my first disclaimer: everything that follows in this post are from my point of view as someone whose DC doesn’t go to full time vocational school, but went through auditions etc and was in the middle of it all amongst other DCs who were fervently preparing for auditions in the last few years. I therefore cannot talk about how brilliant it is for DCs to be in full time voc school as I don’t have any in one. I am sure there are lots more on this forum who can do that as they have DCs who are full time. This is simply a light read for those who, in a few months, might open emails or letters that don’t contain the outcome they wanted from the school they wanted.   I am not, in any way, placing judgement on those who went full time.   Nor is this a bitter or defensive post of someone whose DC didn’t end up going full time. 

 

I begin with saying that I’m sure everyone here knows the odds of getting in to the big name schools. What I wanted to add is that if your DC doesn’t end up getting into one, or even if they don’t get into their top choice, it’s really not the end of the world. I probably come from the minority  of parents on here who didn’t really enjoy the whole audition process, even with all the inspiring talks and messages of “just enjoy the experience”.  In a way I think it’s because I knew in my heart that I didn’t want my DC to go full time at 11 but I didn’t want this to be obvious and so I dutifully and happily still took DC to all classes etc. To cut the long story short, my DC loves dancing but I didn’t think wanted to go full time either and was just going with the flow last year. Because, really, does an 11 year old know what they want at that age? Maybe some do, my DC I definitely know, doesn’t. They can claim something is their dream but god knows I didn’t even know what I wanted to do/be in the first two years I was at university.  At the moment, these auditions no doubt  seem to be the biggest focus in your lives but know that when you come out the other end, regardless of the outcome, you will be fine.  From our humble experience (which isn’t much), and from those I’ve witnessed first hand (a lot), what I would say is that if your DC ends up not going full time or if they end up in their second choice vocational school, let them enjoy that first year wherever they are. Let them enjoy it and let them flourish, let them grab every opportunity they can, don’t let them focus or obsess and spend those first few months thinking of what they’ve missed out on not going full time (or going to their first choice school), don’t let them spend all their time planning and preparing  to re-apply to their dream school again or talking about their friends who are now in so and so ballet school.  In a way we were lucky because our DC, even with offers of full time places off the back of summer intensive applications overseas, didn’t want to go full time by the end of it all.   DC saw how intensely peers prepared for auditions, hours & hours of training etc and decided then and there it wasn’t for DC. DC started at the academic school they always wanted to go to and I’ve never seen them happier and more confident than I have these past few months -  absolutely loves school and friends, settled in smoothly and seamlessly, loves the academic challenge and loves dancing purely for the fun of it, and only secondary to academics.
 

Focus on the things you are lucky to have given your situation. For me, it’s the fact that I see DC every day, I get to wave DC off as DC walks to the bus stop to meet friends on their way to school, I get the lowdown on DC’s day, I get to watch DC dance not just ballet but all sorts of dancing she didn’t have time for before, see DC play and represent their school in sports for the very first time, expertly use public buses, go out with friends after school, have our laughs and chats in the car/train as I take them to dance and sports and various school activities and play dates, get excited for them to come home every day to ask how school was as we walk to the shops to get snacks, banter with siblings - I get to watch DC grow up every single day.  DC is gaining life skills early in life, confidence in going places on their own, cooking for themselves, knowing what’s on the news and what’s happening in the world out there every day and are not insulated in any way.
 

And DC still dances as DC does love it. A lot. With no pressure, with no specific goals, not as a means of preparing for anything - just for fun. I actually think DC is loving and enjoying dancing more these days than when the thought of auditions was looming over like some cloud. Ironically, DC even got a place in a highly sought after associates scheme off the back of last year, without purposely meaning to and despite not really enjoying the whole audition experience. 
 

Sometimes I ask DC if they might want to go full time someday and DC gives a noncommittal “maybe”. But the important thing for me is that even if DC doesn’t change their mind is that DC would have spent their time in “normal school” loving every minute of it despite the usual challenges (for us, this is managing the heavy academic timetable and work and squeezing in all other activities) but not having to stress about stretching & conditioning every day, eating within recommended nutritional requirements every meal, or being on top form every day/getting noticed in class lest get assessed out a few years/months down the line.  What counts for me is that DC doesn’t feel any less than their friends who go to full time school (luckily DC doesn’t, as DC never had the same focus and determination anyway). DC just has a different focus which may or may not change in the future in which case DC will be auditioning with them all with a fresh pair of eyes at age 15/16, perhaps not as trained and amazing as those who went to lower school but definitely not at all pressured and hopefully mature enough to know it’s what they actually want at that stage in life.  I know I’ve written too much now (this is what happens when my DCs are still asleep and in a sports match) but I just wanted to provide some reassure to those who might open those emails a few months from now getting a “no” from their DC’s dream school. I know they always say “it’s not a no, it’s a not yet” but I honestly believe that for some, it’s really a no. But know that a “no” can be the best thing that can happen to your DC. 

 

Again, this is just my point of view and I am in no way saying that not going full time is better than going full time. I know a lot of full time DCs who are very happy and thriving in their vocational schools.  I do personally think that it takes a special kind of personality and constitution (focus, grit, determination) to flourish in vocational school especially at such a young age and so I have the utmost respect and admiration for those kids and their parents. 

 

PS: As my last disclaimer, I am well aware of the fact that it won’t be an easy endeavour if someone who isn’t full time suddenly decides to audition in later years of lower school or upper school.  Given the calibre and amount of training full time students get, I personally think that for someone to even be competitive enough to go for a place in years 10/11 or upper schools, someone would need to have the time and money to prepare for this. I noticed that those with a good chance are those who can afford multiple classes and associates, lots of privates with (sometimes, multiple) teachers, travel to various summer intensives here and overseas, compete in things like the Prix de Lausanne and YAGP, and preferably be home schooled to have the time to squeeze everything in!   This is obviously not the case for everyone but this is just my opinion of how someone can actually get a place in the top schools here and overseas if coming from a non-full time background….

[Peony]

I’m a big believer in fate, sometimes difficult things happen for a reason and might show you the way to go. I do think there are kids who appear to get in good schools at 16 who haven’t done big competitions, multiple privates and the most famous summer schools. But it’s difficult to tell from the outside! Not a ballet parent but with most things I do genuinely think it’s the intrinsic desire and will to spend a lot of your time doing the activity because you genuinely love it that makes the difference. So yes access to lessons is important but so is a genuine interest that leads you to watch and analyse performances, and read around your subject and practice at home and be constantly analysing how you could do better. Which is much easier these days with the internet! 

[glowlight]

Well said @Neverdancedjustamum.

 

I always used to say to my dd (and to myself)...everything happens for a reason.  If you don't get what you were hoping for this time, it is to put you in the right place for what was meant to be.

[akh]

22 hours ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

Good luck to those going through the whole audition rounds this year.  I’m sure you’ve all read the good and bad sides of going full time, especially at age 11, on this forum but I just wanted to come on here to provide the “other side” as such. We have no experience of full time vocational school because we didn’t.  That there is my first disclaimer: everything that follows in this post are from my point of view as someone whose DC doesn’t go to full time vocational school, but went through auditions etc and was in the middle of it all amongst other DCs who were fervently preparing for auditions in the last few years. I therefore cannot talk about how brilliant it is for DCs to be in full time voc school as I don’t have any in one. I am sure there are lots more on this forum who can do that as they have DCs who are full time. This is simply a light read for those who, in a few months, might open emails or letters that don’t contain the outcome they wanted from the school they wanted.   I am not, in any way, placing judgement on those who went full time.   Nor is this a bitter or defensive post of someone whose DC didn’t end up going full time. 

 

I begin with saying that I’m sure everyone here knows the odds of getting in to the big name schools. What I wanted to add is that if your DC doesn’t end up getting into one, or even if they don’t get into their top choice, it’s really not the end of the world. I probably come from the minority  of parents on here who didn’t really enjoy the whole audition process, even with all the inspiring talks and messages of “just enjoy the experience”.  In a way I think it’s because I knew in my heart that I didn’t want my DC to go full time at 11 but I didn’t want this to be obvious and so I dutifully and happily still took DC to all classes etc. To cut the long story short, my DC loves dancing but I didn’t think wanted to go full time either and was just going with the flow last year. Because, really, does an 11 year old know what they want at that age? Maybe some do, my DC I definitely know, doesn’t. They can claim something is their dream but god knows I didn’t even know what I wanted to do/be in the first two years I was at university.  At the moment, these auditions no doubt  seem to be the biggest focus in your lives but know that when you come out the other end, regardless of the outcome, you will be fine.  From our humble experience (which isn’t much), and from those I’ve witnessed first hand (a lot), what I would say is that if your DC ends up not going full time or if they end up in their second choice vocational school, let them enjoy that first year wherever they are. Let them enjoy it and let them flourish, let them grab every opportunity they can, don’t let them focus or obsess and spend those first few months thinking of what they’ve missed out on not going full time (or going to their first choice school), don’t let them spend all their time planning and preparing  to re-apply to their dream school again or talking about their friends who are now in so and so ballet school.  In a way we were lucky because our DC, even with offers of full time places off the back of summer intensive applications overseas, didn’t want to go full time by the end of it all.   DC saw how intensely peers prepared for auditions, hours & hours of training etc and decided then and there it wasn’t for DC. DC started at the academic school they always wanted to go to and I’ve never seen them happier and more confident than I have these past few months -  absolutely loves school and friends, settled in smoothly and seamlessly, loves the academic challenge and loves dancing purely for the fun of it, and only secondary to academics.
 

Focus on the things you are lucky to have given your situation. For me, it’s the fact that I see DC every day, I get to wave DC off as DC walks to the bus stop to meet friends on their way to school, I get the lowdown on DC’s day, I get to watch DC dance not just ballet but all sorts of dancing she didn’t have time for before, see DC play and represent their school in sports for the very first time, expertly use public buses, go out with friends after school, have our laughs and chats in the car/train as I take them to dance and sports and various school activities and play dates, get excited for them to come home every day to ask how school was as we walk to the shops to get snacks, banter with siblings - I get to watch DC grow up every single day.  DC is gaining life skills early in life, confidence in going places on their own, cooking for themselves, knowing what’s on the news and what’s happening in the world out there every day and are not insulated in any way.
 

And DC still dances as DC does love it. A lot. With no pressure, with no specific goals, not as a means of preparing for anything - just for fun. I actually think DC is loving and enjoying dancing more these days than when the thought of auditions was looming over like some cloud. Ironically, DC even got a place in a highly sought after associates scheme off the back of last year, without purposely meaning to and despite not really enjoying the whole audition experience. 
 

Sometimes I ask DC if they might want to go full time someday and DC gives a noncommittal “maybe”. But the important thing for me is that even if DC doesn’t change their mind is that DC would have spent their time in “normal school” loving every minute of it despite the usual challenges (for us, this is managing the heavy academic timetable and work and squeezing in all other activities) but not having to stress about stretching & conditioning every day, eating within recommended nutritional requirements every meal, or being on top form every day/getting noticed in class lest get assessed out a few years/months down the line.  What counts for me is that DC doesn’t feel any less than their friends who go to full time school (luckily DC doesn’t, as DC never had the same focus and determination anyway). DC just has a different focus which may or may not change in the future in which case DC will be auditioning with them all with a fresh pair of eyes at age 15/16, perhaps not as trained and amazing as those who went to lower school but definitely not at all pressured and hopefully mature enough to know it’s what they actually want at that stage in life.  I know I’ve written too much now (this is what happens when my DCs are still asleep and in a sports match) but I just wanted to provide some reassure to those who might open those emails a few months from now getting a “no” from their DC’s dream school. I know they always say “it’s not a no, it’s a not yet” but I honestly believe that for some, it’s really a no. But know that a “no” can be the best thing that can happen to your DC. 

 

Again, this is just my point of view and I am in no way saying that not going full time is better than going full time. I know a lot of full time DCs who are very happy and thriving in their vocational schools.  I do personally think that it takes a special kind of personality and constitution (focus, grit, determination) to flourish in vocational school especially at such a young age and so I have the utmost respect and admiration for those kids and their parents. 

 

PS: As my last disclaimer, I am well aware of the fact that it won’t be an easy endeavour if someone who isn’t full time suddenly decides to audition in later years of lower school or upper school.  Given the calibre and amount of training full time students get, I personally think that for someone to even be competitive enough to go for a place in years 10/11 or upper schools, someone would need to have the time and money to prepare for this. I noticed that those with a good chance are those who can afford multiple classes and associates, lots of privates with (sometimes, multiple) teachers, travel to various summer intensives here and overseas, compete in things like the Prix de Lausanne and YAGP, and preferably be home schooled to have the time to squeeze everything in!   This is obviously not the case for everyone but this is just my opinion of how someone can actually get a place in the top schools here and overseas if coming from a non-full time background….

 

[akh]

The most important thing in life is to be happy and there are many and often unexpected ways of achieving this.

[Pups_mum]

Yes, I think it is very important to remember that very few of us do end up following paths that were our dreams when we were 10 or 11 and that is not actually a bad thing!

If you have a talented child, in any sphere, not just dance, there is soon an assumption that they will want to make that interest their career. And who wouldn't love to make their much loved hobby into their lifelong career when they are a typical primary school child? The difference of course is that there are not many other pursuits that expect a family to make quite the same sacrifices as ballet at such a young age. Not many other activities where children are asked to nail their colours to the mast and move away from their family into a boarding environment and give up quite so much of "normal" childhood for their dream at this age.

But you don't have to. There are indeed many roads to Rome and a lot more options open up at 16 and even 18. A classical career is such a small part of the dance world, and not the only dream worth chasing - it's just the dream that most young dancers have because it is what they know about, in the same way that sporty kids dream of Olympic gold and the science mad ones long to be astronauts on the ISS. As they grow up, most see other options and new aspirations develop. Most people don't see the fact that they aren't fulfilling their primary school dreams now that they are adults as a failure - we need to make sure that young dancers don't either. Success and happiness come in many, many different ways.

 

[NotadanceMa]

My child wasn’t ready for vocational at Y7 and fast forward a few years was very fortunate to be invited to join one of the main vocational schools from their associate program, they started this September. We had no intention of looking to vocational until US if my child still wanted this path.

It has been a bumpy ride but overall they are enjoying the experience. Boarding brings its own very unique challenges.

what has transpired very quickly for my child is whilst they are very talented with all the right potential for classical ballet (this is feedback from teachers along the way, not me showing off 😁) ballet turns out not to be their passion. They won’t die if they can’t become a ballet dancer and have realised that they are not ambitious in the same way as other children they are now training with. My child is a hard worker, but does not enjoy the rarefied air of ballet training so far, they find it old fashioned and culturally out dated in its teaching methods.

The class gasped when my child was asked in a ballet lesson what they wanted to be in the future and my child said a social worker!!! The teacher then asked everyone to go away and come up with an alternative career choice as not one child could think of anything else but being a Principal.

I remember my child’s JA teacher saying that after hard work, so much of this world is about luck and being in the right place at the right time.

I think I brainwashed my child from the off when training moved out of the local church hall, that they needed always to have more than one Plan A, in fact multiple Plan A’s. And I made sure to tell them that they these plans can change over and over again and not knowing is also a plan 😁

 

I remember acutely the Y6/7 frenzy of excitement and hysteria in the lead up to vocational finals. My child was never going to go down that route but we were frantically swept along by it after an invitation and ended up with Y7 offer which was turned down. It was the most surreal of times for sure, and for what it’s worth it always seemed to me then to be something of a chimera where the end goal is always slightly out of reach. Maybe my child has intuitively absorbed this from me, I think I hope so.

 

I am in no way knocking the wonderful children out there who are at the beginning of chasing down those elusive places, but the system is changing, has changed in the years we have been in it; with professional photos for intensives now the hot topic of chats over coffee, private lessons from Principals ever more normal, extraordinary amounts of training hours, private lesson hours amassed prior to auditions, in the holidays, extra training on top of vocational training and on and on it goes.  
Where will it all end and to what ends?

 

So @Neverdancedjustamumwe have always been on the other side too, but as my child’s JA teacher also said ‘someone is always watching’ and for my child that proved to be the right person watching at the right time for just this moment now.

Even though my child is now in that elusive vocational arena they are very much still on the other side. X

[Neverdancedjustamum]

2 hours ago, NotadanceMa said:

My child wasn’t ready for vocational at Y7 and fast forward a few years was very fortunate to be invited to join one of the main vocational schools from their associate program, they started this September. We had no intention of looking to vocational until US if my child still wanted this path.

It has been a bumpy ride but overall they are enjoying the experience. Boarding brings its own very unique challenges.

what has transpired very quickly for my child is whilst they are very talented with all the right potential for classical ballet (this is feedback from teachers along the way, not me showing off 😁) ballet turns out not to be their passion. They won’t die if they can’t become a ballet dancer and have realised that they are not ambitious in the same way as other children they are now training with. My child is a hard worker, but does not enjoy the rarefied air of ballet training so far, they find it old fashioned and culturally out dated in its teaching methods.

The class gasped when my child was asked in a ballet lesson what they wanted to be in the future and my child said a social worker!!! The teacher then asked everyone to go away and come up with an alternative career choice as not one child could think of anything else but being a Principal.

I remember my child’s JA teacher saying that after hard work, so much of this world is about luck and being in the right place at the right time.

I think I brainwashed my child from the off when training moved out of the local church hall, that they needed always to have more than one Plan A, in fact multiple Plan A’s. And I made sure to tell them that they these plans can change over and over again and not knowing is also a plan 😁

 

I remember acutely the Y6/7 frenzy of excitement and hysteria in the lead up to vocational finals. My child was never going to go down that route but we were frantically swept along by it after an invitation and ended up with Y7 offer which was turned down. It was the most surreal of times for sure, and for what it’s worth it always seemed to me then to be something of a chimera where the end goal is always slightly out of reach. Maybe my child has intuitively absorbed this from me, I think I hope so.

 

I am in no way knocking the wonderful children out there who are at the beginning of chasing down those elusive places, but the system is changing, has changed in the years we have been in it; with professional photos for intensives now the hot topic of chats over coffee, private lessons from Principals ever more normal, extraordinary amounts of training hours, private lesson hours amassed prior to auditions, in the holidays, extra training on top of vocational training and on and on it goes.  
Where will it all end and to what ends?

 

So @Neverdancedjustamumwe have always been on the other side too, but as my child’s JA teacher also said ‘someone is always watching’ and for my child that proved to be the right person watching at the right time for just this moment now.

Even though my child is now in that elusive vocational arena they are very much still on the other side. X

Love your post! I can see a lot of similarities although I very much doubt my DC will end up full time but who knows. I’ve seen crazier things happen.  When asked, my DC always says they want to be a busker/artist/author/uni student …in that order so far over the years.  Even when they had spells of saying they’d like to be a dancer, they’d always told me they’d rather be in the corps! Apparently it looks more fun. And apparently DC can then be a dance teacher which should also be fun. 

 

It’s funny you mentioned about the changing system because that’s part of the reason my DC firmly decided it was not something they are willing to do, is not committed enough to do. It was heightened during lockdown when DC saw the extraordinary lengths some of their peers could afford/do.  Everything suddenly became more public and while I always warn her that social media doesn’t give the full or even actual picture, what DC and I saw was more than enough. DC was not willing to give up hours of her “normal life” as DC calls it - didn’t want to give up weekends or school holidays. Didn’t want to train at home after a hard day of school work. DC hated having photos and videos taken. That’s why the whole family found it quite ironic and slightly funny when DC got finals to auditions. I vividly remember dropping DC off to one, and my husband commented how everything looked amazing in this school (even from the outside and surrounds) and everyone looked very excited yet nervous - and yet there our DC was casually shuffling to the entrance, not a care in the world and quite possibly the only kid there who wasn’t really interested in a place (DC did grudgingly let me take a sneaky photo for memory’s sake). I have to admit I told DC to just go for the experience of it as it will probably be the only time they’ll ever see the place from the inside. When DC came out I asked how it went and they told me “the room they made us wait in was nice, like a hotel”. And that was it. In a way, I think DC knew in themselves that they shouldn’t have been there, DC wasn’t as committed as the others and DC didn’t want it like the others. I often wonder how DC presented themself that day and whether it was obvious. 

 

We remain firmly on the “other side” at the moment, and I know full well that with each year that passes, DC will probably be even more rooted on this side. Perhaps it will come to a point when it won’t be by choice. I stand by what I think about the changing system (which you noticed as well) and it’s easy to see this just by quickly looking at those who gained places in the top upper school/s, here and abroad. It requires so much time and commitment and finance, especially when I have more than one DC. 

 

I just know that at the moment, my DC won’t  budge from their comfortable “other side” seat. DC already commented on how the overall feeling of audition stress is palpable in some classes - and DC’s not even part of it. Apparently DC is not “getting involved in that again”… Maybe someday I’ll have the chance to remind DC of this comment and laugh at how one can change their mind. Then again, more likely not. 

 

[NotadanceMa]

My child too @Neverdancedjustamumwould also be very happy in the corps because the one thing they have loved over the years is performing. They have been fortunate enough to dance with all the usual companies and their lovely local school productions. I can see that is where they come alive, I think that must be what happens in the audition process for them also because I cannot think of any other reason for their success. I have seen my child perform once, (I don’t like to watch) they were like a different person, it was like magic. We could not/cannot afford extra lessons, or anything much at all, I am always chasing down bursaries and grants, so that exclusive club of extras has always been very much out of our reach from the start. I don’t allow unrestricted social media like Instagram I think it is unhealthy for developing teens and recent research has said the same. My poor child has parental controls on their tech as well as the schools screening system. 😁

 

I don’t want to say too much in an effort to protect my child’s identity, ballet the further up you go is a very very small world.

Happiness and enjoyment have been key for my child, lockdown was brutal for them, because Zoom meant the death of dancing for them. If that were to ever return again they would leave dancing behind this time.

 

It sounds like your daughter knows exactly what she wants for now and where she wants to be is right for her. They are young and can change their minds overnight, that is their right. I have always said to my dance friend that dancing at this age is a really lovely hobby to pursue as long as it doesn’t take over your life, and without which you would not know who you are, that you would be left with nothing else in your life. You can still train, but that must be balanced with other things like friendships, education, downtime, family time and so on. More than just ballet.

 

On here though for the most part we obviously post into a lovely echo chamber because outside this forum it can get wild. X