How on earth are we supposed to be able to afford to visit universities?

[Lisa O`Brien]

I'm still receiving university Prospectuses in the post. Sean, as usual, has no interest in looking through any of them. Although he has said recently he hasn't completely ruled out the idea of uni in the future. There are only two universities in Northern Ireland; Queens University Belfast, which is a Russell Group uni , which doesn't do his course, and Ulster University, which does. He visited Ulster's Jordanstown campus with the college a year ago and hated everything about it. So that is out of the question. Have applied for and received Prospectuses from all over the place,from universities that do the Health and Social Care degree. I like getting post anyway and it's something to look through. [sad, I know] !! Anyway, *I* really like the look of Bangor University in Wales. It is near Snowdonia National Park and Anglesea, so is in a stunning location. Told Sean and he said it sounded promising. Also promising and we've realised is really important, is good transport links. Sadly, Lincoln would be a bit of a nightmare getting to and from, despite both the uni and the place seeming to be lovely. But.if we were to go to the open day at Bangor there is a ferry service from Dublin to Holyhead [sadly not from Belfast], which only takes two hours, but if me and Sean were to go the fare would cost around £117.00 return for the two of us if we were to come back two days later. I was thinking one full day touring the uni and the next day having a good look around the area to see if he liked the look and the feel of the place or not. This is fine, and manageable. A couple of hundred pounds and Sean would know if that uni was the right one for him. But that's just going to visit one uni . How on earth are we [me] supposed to be able to then fund the trip over to England and go and visit say, London, for him to look around the Uni there that seems good, or Birmingham or Liverpool John Moores etc?  What do people from other countries do who want to go to a university in a country that is not in the same country where they live? My sister and her husband live in Manchester, so i'm sure they would put us up and allow us to use their place as a base for getting to places. But they live in a tiny one bedroom flat which means me and Sean would have to sleep on the floor.  Any suggestions? How do other people who don't have a car, are poor and live in another country get to university open days? [Apart from suddenly coming into a thousand pounds that would pay for all these trips].!!

Edited September 11, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien

[Lisa O`Brien]

Oh and I know there is absolutely no way he would travel on his own.

[Ellie]

Lisa I think that some unis may reimburse travel costs...Not 100% sure, but seem to remember reading about it when DS was going to open days. He went alone as I couldn't have afforded to go with him. If Sean is not comfortable going alone is there anyone you know based in the UK who could chaperone him ? Get him to have a good look at the uni websites and prospectus and narrow it down to a few - not ideal I know, but if cost is an issue (as it was with us) it's the most practical option. x

[Moomin]

You need an awful lot of enthusiasm and self motivation to get through a degree If he's not brimming with enthusiasm now do you think it would be better to let him have a year or two out? Sorry this is not meant to be negative but it's such a huge commitment and expense for you and him. Personally I researched the courses and made a shortlist of 4 which I visited. I was lucky that this was before tuition fees and I got a grant so could choose based on which one I liked best. The one I chose wasn't the one I thought inliked best on paper but I would have gone to any as I really wanted to do my course. I don't think it's necessary to look around lots of places, you can eliminate a good number based on whether you want to be on a campus/ rural/ urban etc. also, I'm sure most would accommodate you with a guided visit so that you could see a number of places in one visit without having to wait for the open days, given the distance involved

[Hull]

Lisa, I would like to second Moomin's comments above in relation to the guided visits. This is the approach we took with our oldest daughter a couple of years ago.

 

We also live overseas and travelling is very, very expensive for us. When our daughter finally made up her mind which universities she would prefer to study at, their Open Days were all during the week in which all students were forbidden from having any time off. So our daughter initially contacted 3 universities by e-mail, requesting that she visit the university on a certain date so she could have a look around. She then followed this up by telephoning the non-replying universities to see if they could assist us. I think it is very important that the prospective student makes all enquiries - I do not believe that the parent should be involved even at this early stage.

 

After replies had been received, we sorted out travel arrangements, etc and confirmed the times of our university visits with each place. On arrival at each university, our daughter made contact with the correct person and we were given a tour of the facilities. At one place the guide was a student - this gave us ample time to ask her lots and lots of questions during our tour about what is was really like to live and study in that area. In another our guide was the senior lecturer of the course - this gave us a very different tour, showing areas that would not be usually accessible to a visitor. Again, we had a lot of time to ask anything we liked. It was a real pleasure to see our daughter taking the initiative and asking questions, chatting happily about her aims and ambitions for the future. She was still 16 at the time.

 

In hindsight, I think our approach was very successful because we had the undivided attention of a guide and the chance to look at a working university and ask as many questions as we wanted. I appreciate that universities cannot help out every prospective student in this way, but for some of us, it was the only way in which we could look at which is a vitally important part of our daughter's education.

 

We also made sure we visited nearly shops, towns, cafes, etc to see what was available and spoke to as many people as possible to see what students can be involved in during their time in the area.

 

I feel that the whole visit was a real learning experience for our daughter and from our viewpoint, it was a real pleasure to see her becoming so involved in the university application process. When she made her decision as to her first choice university, we felt she had benefitted from our slightly different approach to visiting and it had been money and time well spent.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Thank you so much for your comments. It's good to know a visit can potentially be made at a time other than the open day.

[Ellie]

Just had another quick read through this thread and there's some great advice. But I think that Sean (not you) has to be sure that he wants to do a course at uni, maybe he needs a bit of motivation to 'go for it' or maybe he can achieve what he wants through a local college. Uni is super expensive, I think that I've already mentioned that DS had access to a student loan for his fees, but had to work in order to pay his rent/bills/food etc. He's very dedicated and enthusiastic about his course, if he'd been lukewarm about it I don't think that he'd have got this far. I'm not being judgmental, as I've also already said my 2nd DS is doing very well at college and without the worry of paying off student loans. x

[Lisa O`Brien]

Thanks. Yes I know what you are saying. He is already doing a Higher Education course at college, a HND. He really enjoys it . Unfortunately this second year he is about to go in to is only equivalent to the first year of an Honours degree, so will have to go into the second year at uni. The other option is topping it up at a college that offers degree level courses. Sadly our local college doesn't. I was even thinking he might want to top it up at Stockport College; the place where he was born and lived until he was two. The major disadvantage with a college over an actual university to do your degree in is that colleges offer no accommodation. Stockport college provide a list of suitable accommodation and I assume other colleges do. The vast majority of their students will be local though and living at home, i'd imagine. In Northern Ireland, all degrees are only £3,750 a year, compared to £9,000 a year everywhere else. So you'd think choosing it do it at a local uni would be a no brainer. He isn't against the idea of topping up his HND to a degree, it's more the thought of the socialising side of university that doesn't appeal. He is very shy.

[aileen]

Lisa, please don't take this the wrong way but I feel that it is you that is interested in Sean going to university rather than Sean. He really needs to be the one to drive this. As others have said, a three (or four) year degree is a huge commitment, and not just financially. Unless things are different in Northern Ireland, whatever loans and grants Sean would have access to will almost certainly leave some sort of a shortfall which he would have to make up by working, certainly during the holidays and probably during term time as well. You really need to have a passion for your subject otherwise you won't do the work to get a good class of degree. Students have to be highly motivated; it's not like school or college where you are nagged and cajoled by teachers and tutors.

 

As Hull has said, there are options other than open days. Actually, most universities give very detailed information about their courses, accommodation etc on their websites and many have virtual tours as well. I think that many international students don't visit the university which they attend before they arrive at the beginning of their first term. In England, many schools arrange group visits to a selection of universities, by coach or train, and I imagine that transport costs are covered or subsidised by the schools or possibly the schools can access travel grants from the universities.

 

Whilst the course is obviously very important so is the location of the university. You mentioned London. London is a very expensive place to be a student and it is a rather different experience to being a student anywhere else because of the sheer size of London. Your friends may end up living an hour and a half away from you once you move out of student halls (which are also very expensive - there was a protest by UCL students a year or two ago). Even outside London the cost of accommodation can vary quite widely from place to place with some perhaps less glamorous cities proving surprisingly expensive certainly when it comes to student accommodation.

 

As someone else has said, Sean can go to university any time. He may be more receptive to the idea in a couple of years time, and for some young people going a few years later when they are more mature and more certain about what they want to study results in a better university experience. I won't deny that teenagers are hugely influenced by their peers when it comes to university. If all your friends are going then you will probably want to go too. Conversely, if none of them are going then you may find it hard to envisage doing something that no-one else is doing, particularly if it involves you moving away from home and leaving your friends behind.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Thank you aileen. Yes, all his friends are a huge influence on him. He has been friends with them all since the first day of secondary school. Out of the six friends he has, only one has a job. A couple of others were at college but dropped out . Sean is the only one who has continued his education beyond even GCSE's. So they have no interest in travelling, or studying, or anything like that. If his friends were off to uni I have no doubt at all that Sean would want to go too, to be near his mates. He just doesn't have the confidence to strike out on his own. They're not bad lads, don't get me wrong. None of them are violent I don't think and they certainly don't carry knives or anything like that. They just hang around in each other's houses, or driving round the village or into Newry and back. Very exciting. Not. [Although they did all go off to the cinema the other evening, which I was surprised about; that they actually DID something]. I know this is going to sound horrible, but at times I actually wish Sean would have a massive falling out with them all and that would be the end of that. Of course even then there would be no guarantee he would think, "To hell with it, i'm going away to do such and such". But it might help. [Do I sound like a horrible person?]

Edited September 12, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien

[orchidblue]

No Lisa, you sound like the frustrated Mum of a lazy teenager. You just have to hope something fires up inside him or all your well meaning efforts will amount to nothing as you can't live his life for him. One day you just have to let go but be firm and make sure he knows that if he isn't continuing in education he'll need to be earning to pay his way in life. No freeloading. Good luck. xx

[aileen]

Well, the DWP (or its equivalent) must be much more lenient in NI than in England. In England, Sean's friends would not be able to just hang around doing nothing. If they were not making strenuous efforts to get a job and were turning down jobs that they were capable of doing they would be subject to benefits sanctions which can last months. But perhaps his friends are funded by their parents.

 

I agree with orchidblue. Don't let Sean do nothing. You can't afford it anyway. If he's not studying then he needs to get a job and contribute to the costs of the household. Perhaps a dull job will give him the motivation he needs. If not, then it is the life which he has chosen to lead. You can't live his life for him. You can only encourage and advise.

[Lisa O`Brien]

I've told him since he was about 14 that he has three options. Education, voluntary work or a paid job. Doing nothing is not an option and he knows this, and always has.

[Lisa O`Brien]

There are a few NEETS [Not in Employment, Education or Training] here, but not many. One of Sean's friends lives with his father as his mother died about 2 years ago. [Drugs and alcohol I think]. One also lives with his alcoholic father, who leaves him no money for food so I often end up feeding him. I can't afford it, but he always seems to come around dinner time, so I anticipate this and put on extra spuds, frozen veg and an extra piece of frozen chicken or fish for him. If he doesn't come round it gets eaten the next day by one of us, so it's no big deal. I wouldn't see the lad go hungry.  Yet another one knocked on our door at 4 AM the other morning. Not for the first time. He had had a massive row with his mum , and he stormed off. I don't particularly like his mother. She tried to befriend me but she wasn't my particular type of woman. In every photo of her on Facebook she has a drink in her hand and goes through boyfriends like I don't know what. I once saw her and she had a huge love bite on her neck. She's my age, 48. A few times the son has said things that shows she doesn't really care that much for him. She had a huge argument in front of half the school with the Deputy Head Master once because her son and Sean threw gravy all over each other. I made Sean take the punishment as he deserved it. She however was having none of it. "Don't you F****** speak about my son like that " etc. I wanted the floor to swallow me whole. They all turn up at my house. I really don't mind, in short doses.  This particular morning he made his way to our house and knocked on the door. I knew who it was. We don't have a spare bed so he had to sleep in the double bed next to Sean. I told him he must text his mum to tell her where he was. He said he would do it later. The lad's mum was  driving all over wondering where her son was. She turned up an hour later.Ordered her son in the car, even though I told her he was grand where he was and could sleep at our house. I have told them all not under any circumstances to be wandering around the streets on their own in the middle of the night, and to come to my house if they find themselves with nowhere else to go. [Not that it's even remotely dangerous here, but even so]. So in their own ways they all have come from problem backgrounds, Sean included. [bTW, the one who drinks and has lots of boyfriends. I know I sound really judgemental about her, but tbh, I don't really know her. She could be a very nice person. It's just that as a Teetotaller, and someone who hates what alcohol did to Sean's father, I cannot be around people like that]. The one who lives with his alcoholic father and doesn't get anything to eat. I'm quite concerned about him sometimes. I know he's nearly 20 but even so. I asked Sean last week if he wanted to ask this lad if he would like to move in permanently with us.I would hate the idea really, but his needs are greater than ours. I thought we could clear out the spare bedroom where all my books are etc, and get a put you up bed. I was thinking even if it was only for 6 months while he tried to sort something out for himself, if would be better than living at home with his father. Sean was absolutely dead set against it, saying he didn't want to have to live with any of his mates. I thought that was selfish of him really. It's Sean's friend, not mine. And if I was OK with the idea I don't see why Sean wasn't. However he said don't you dare ask ..to move in. I've asked him if there is a specific reason why he was so against the idea of helping his friend out but he is reluctant to say anything for some reason. So I said nothing. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien

[aileen]

Sean may have good reasons for not agreeing to his friend moving in with you. I would trust his judgment on this.