Anna C

13 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

No LinMM, poaching is when teachers actively encourage pupils from other schools to switch, by starting Associate schemes, performance clubs, and even contacting direct on social media. What doesn't seem to be understood is how disruptive trial classes can be for existing pupils.

How so, PdQ?  When dd did a trial class, she literally just joined in the appropriate level class.  She didn’t cause any disruption, because the Teacher had suggested that class based on dd’s experience.  The only difference between her and the existing pupils was that she had a different leotard.

6 hours ago, Anniedancemum said:

I don’t think I could approach other dance schools in secret (and probably shouldn’t), and I think our current school would be really annoyed if I told them I was thinking of leaving. It would cause a big fall out.

Again, this is where we need to remind ourselves that we’re paying customers.  I had to change swimming lesson providers when dd was little; we just applied to the better classes at a different pool and gave notice to the first one.  Just like when you change Vets or whatever.

Yet when we want to change dance schools, there’s this fear of being disloyal/fallout/making the teacher angry.  It shouldn’t be like that!  I changed from an ISTD dance school to an RAD one when dd was about 6 or 7, for some of the reasons you mention in your posts (too much focus on shows/comps, ridiculously late show rehearsals (10pm finish for 5 year olds), compulsory extra evening classes/rehearsals that clashed with other commitments, constant demands for money) but also because they didn’t teach Character dance which dd had enjoyed at a Tring Park Dance Day and wanted to learn.
 

I booked her in for a trial class at our nearest RAD school before I’d even mentioned to her previous teacher that I was thinking of moving her.  All the new teacher asked was that I gave the appropriate notice to the ISTD school, which of course I did, in writing.  Not only did dd make friends at the new classes, but also one friend from the old school moved to the new one shortly afterwards, for much the same reasons.  
 

With regards to your daughter not wanting to move, that’s slightly trickier.  Sometimes we, as the adult, know what’s best for them.  We can see red flags that they can’t, and quite rightly, issues that don’t bother them do bother us, because we’re the ones paying/changing work commitments/drying the tears.  Your gut feeling and the advice you’re getting here might have to override your daughter’s view, if the bottom line is that you know she would get better/kinder teaching elsewhere.  Plus until she does a trial class elsewhere, she’s not going to know any different.

Your daughter’s current school reminds me of my daughter’s uni competition team, to be honest!  The girls taught & choreographed themselves and each other, and the goal was to perform their best routines at comps.

The major difference?  The girls were aged 18-24.  Their years of solid technique and proper teaching by qualified teachers, as well as their self-discipline and years of exams, Associates, CAT schemes, and even some full-time training, let them concentrate on performance/costumes/routines and competitions.  And they had such fun doing it!
 

I always remember two things that extremely wise and experienced women taught my daughter:  

1. Practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent - ie you could be committing wrong technique to muscle memory just by repeating it enough times.  

2.  When the correct technique is ingrained into the body, only then can you free your mind to work on performing/acting/smiling.  The technique must ALWAYS come first.

26 minutes ago, Anniedancemum said:

The other schools do exams, which our current school doesn’t do. Not sure how I feel about this. Not sure if my daughter would like it or not. Those who have progressed onto dance college and then professional training seem to have managed fine without them. And the dance teacher thinks they’re unnecessary.

Interesting!  Graded exams - eg RAD Pre-Primary to Grade 8 - are not necessary, certainly, but are nice to learn, very “dancey” in the senior grades, and good practice for the more rigorous Vocational exams (eg Intermediate Foundation to Advanced 1 & 2).  
 

If a student’s goal is to become a qualified dance teacher, then these Vocational exams often ARE very necessary, in particular Intermediate or equivalent in ballet which is a requirement for many dance teacher training courses.  
 

Plus, should your dd turn out to be academic, RAD Grades 6/7/8 and vocational exams up to and including Advanced Foundation give UCAS points.  Even if these points can’t be applied to all university applications, the fact that a student has evidence of study up to a certain level in dance and/or music is helpful on personal statements.  
 

Just my 2p worth. 😊

3 hours ago, Anniedancemum said:

It’s very shouty at times and my daughter is terrified of being told off. She never is though. She doesn’t like the shouting, but I think this is probably pretty standard. 

It shouldn’t be.  There are better ways of providing constructive correction than shouting.

Take it back to basics.  You’re a paying customer.  What does your gut tell you?  How does the school’s goals align with your daughter’s goals?  
 

Even if dance is only ever a serious extra-curricular activity, children should still be taught rock solid technique, especially in ballet.  They should also look forward to class, not be terrified in case they’re shouted at.

The Senior Girls being *teaching assistants* don’t cause me a problem personally (probably because my daughter used to do it; she’d be asked on occasion by the Teacher to teach an exercise/variation, and it was good for her confidence), but teaching the whole class on a regular basis is not the same thing.

I think you do have to take your daughter’s wishes into account; maybe you could write a Pros and Cons list together?  But if the Cons outweigh the Pros AND if there are other good dance schools in the area, then doing a trial class might be a good idea.

I always think a good rule of thumb is if you wouldn’t put up with it at academic school/swimming lessons or elsewhere, don’t tolerate it from a dance school.

Definitely worth emailing Tring about TPA.  I think Saturday classes are mostly held in the lovely, light and airy Park Studios.  
 

If your dd is happy to go to South London then definitely don’t rule out RAD HQ classes - they offer Creative/Contemporary as well as Jazz and a whole range of ballet classes.  It’s a few years ago now, but after finishing at Central Associates and before going to university, my dd did non-syllabus ballet and Advanced 2 classes at the old RAD HQ on Saturdays (as well as Tring CBA on Sundays 😂) and absolutely loved the atmosphere and her fellow students at RAD.  
(As a bonus, it also made her Advanced 2 exam a lot less nerve wracking as it was in her Saturday studio, so if your dd wants to carry on with her vocational exams, that might be worth considering).

36 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I found that the school with the best and most varied Saturday timetable sadly isn’t in London. If you can easily travel to Tring, do check out Tring Park Associates (TPA). Classes are held in the lovely Park Studios of Tring Park School. Even though it’s called “associates”, it’s not exactly like RBS or Central associates (I think Tring’s version of these is their CBA - Classical Ballet Academy).  TPA sounds like absolutely what you’re looking for. My DD spent an amazing few years doing TPA classes and their Saturday timetable has so much to offer (RAD grades, ISTD modern and tap, jazz, PBT, Street, contemporary, pointe, non-syllabus ballet, etc). My DD spent many wonderful Saturdays there, from morning to late afternoon, taking multiple classes. She was entered for syllabus exams and progressed well, obtaining excellent results. It was here where she first grew in confidence and her love for dance was nurtured.  
 

Your DD will also have the opportunity to make friends as they often spend time together during the breaks in between classes. We left before Covid so I’m not sure if it’s the same set up. Sadly, my DD can’t do Saturdays there anymore due to associates elsewhere but we would totally do it again if we had the chance.  It’s a brilliant arrangement, teachers are great, the whole atmosphere is very nurturing and friendly and inclusive (we never experienced drama or competitiveness, which sadly we found is now often prevalent in a lot of dance schools). My DD always felt like she was seen as an individual, everyone was made to feel special in their own way and never did we feel any real or perceived favouritism. This was a few years ago so I hope things have remained the same as I would highly recommend. Again, this is our personal experience so others might think otherwise. 

Great idea!  Is TPA still entry by audition for teens?  I was just wondering if that might be more pressure than mumofaladybird’s dd wants, although I don’t know how competitive TPA auditions are.  If it’s more like a fun class in order to place dancers in the correct level, that would probably be fine.

Yes, as Peanut68 says, Rambert and Danceworks offer a great range of dance classes.  There’s also Pineapple in Covent Garden, The Place (offers among other things “creative dance” classes for teens), and RAD HQ in Battersea (syllabus or non-syllabus ballet classes, as well as Creative/Contemporary).

If your dd wants to do several classes in different genres during her Saturdays, I’d have a look at Danceworks or Pineapple first - both are centrally located and there are loads of shops/cafes nearby for a quick lunch in between classes.  If she wants to concentrate on ballet, RAD non-syllabus classes are excellent.  

My first thought too, @drdance. 😱

Balletmania, please don’t risk injury by doing oversplits or any other extreme stretching.  Hyperextension/hypermobility is no good without the strength and stability to actually *use* it while dancing.  What you need is prescribed exercises to *engage and strengthen* your ligaments, including those in the back of your leg, instead of stretching your already mobile joints.  
 

You’re possibly having trouble maintaining extension while dancing because the overstretching is weakening your knees, instead of strengthening them.  Add to that that dancers with hyperextended knees & elbows should not “sit back” into them and lock them into hyperextension, but should pull up (which feels odd to start with, and as if the knee is bent, but is much better in the long run).

Hypermobile dancers may have nice lines, but they have to be extremely careful and diligent with their strengthening exercises, if they are too avoid injury.

I’d suggest seeing an experienced Dance Physio for a properly prescribed, personalised, exercise programme.
 

1 hour ago, glowlight said:

It is some time since my dd was training, but I think it is important to value quality over quantity.

 

ie it isn't only about the hours of training, it is about the quality of that training.

 

If your dd is getting good quality training at her local dance school, plus an associates class, that sounds like a very good place to be at aged 9.  Gosh I think my dd was only doing 1 ballet class a week at that age!  Vocational school wasn't on her radar for year 7, but she got bitten by the bug a bit later, ramped up her local training in her teens, and she went to vocational school at 16.

 

Even if money was no object, you might still find yourself wondering if you've done enough.  All you can do is the best you can with what is available to you given your financial position, the time you have available and what opportunities are available to you locally.

 

Please don't fall into the trap of giving up everything for this dream.  I know families who have sold the family home so their child can go to vocational school and that puts huge pressure on both the family and the child.  

 

Do what you can within your means, and try to enjoy the journey.

 

 

Such good advice, glowlight.  Quality above quantity is so important, as is enjoying the journey rather than constantly worrying about the destination.  

8 minutes ago, balletdreams410 said:

Sorry, would have helped if I was more specific 🤦‍♀️

DD9 - currently does RAD Grade 3, RBS ATAP, ISTD Grade 3 Modern and Unaffiliated Contemporary. Associate classes are fortnightly term time only.

Vocational at 11 would be amazing, but in my heart I just don’t think she’ll make the cut compared to others

In my humble opinion, 4 hours a week at 9 is plenty.  She’s very young! Lots of children are still doing Brownies/swimming classes and other hobbies at 9, not just focusing on dance (plus they need time to be children, go to birthday parties, and so on).

If she has the potential, desire, and physical facility to go into full-time ballet training, you could drop think about dropping the tap and swap it for a non-syllabus/pre-vocational ballet class if available, and start looking at Easter/summer courses like London Children’s Ballet (or equivalent near you) for next year.  But I really wouldn’t worry too much. 😊

Hi balletdreams410, and welcome.  Much depends on how old your daughter is; is she aiming for full-time training at 11+, or 16+?

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

Very sad news.  He was an experienced hiker, must have been dreadful for his family when he went missing.  

Very experienced.  His poor family indeed; he was first reported missing in January.  🙁

3 hours ago, Sim said:

No shame about it....I wouldn't have gone either, and in fact I won't see their Nutcracker again until they replace it.  

Add me to that list.

It’s been confirmed that actor Julian Sands has died, after going missing several months ago on a solo hike.  
 

Sands as George Emerson in Merchant-Ivory’s “A Room with a view” was one of my first film crushes.  I fell in love with him, along with Florence, the River Arno, and Puccini.  
 

Condolences to Julian Sands’ family and friends.  May he rest in peace.

17 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Also very disappointing that there has been no send off for Amber Hunt. Although a dancer in the “unglamorous” artist section, she has been a versatile and 100% committed dancer in every role I’ve spotted her in (she’s quite easy for me to pick out) whether it’s dancing elegantly as a Swan, Snowflake or character dance performer, or taking on mime roles in Nutcracker and other classics. But her most prominent role in helping the company stay in the public’s radar is one that’s sometimes but not always credited: the Pointe Shoe Tree in the foyer every Christmas that’s now taken on a life of its own (there are crowds of people waiting patiently to photograph it every season) and even been copied by other companies in other countries, and shared and reshared countless times on social media...with company hashtag of course. (The company now also use it, cannily, as a donation generator - there is a little box near it every season nowadays, with donation details asking for contributions!) 

 

In addition, other photography and filming highlights that she has contributed include the daily “mouse king adventures” videos on social media which helped generate interest (as well as ticket and merchandise sales) last season.  I’m not saying that every single employee needs speeches and standing ovations on their departure, but I think as a creative artist who helped raise the company profile to non dance enthusiasts, a bouquet and solo bow in London and an FB post crediting her unique company contribution is appropriate. 

Agreed, Emeralds.  Dd and I used to love spotting Amber; she had a very special stage presence and was a beautiful dancer, especially in Contemporary repertoire.  I always thought she deserved promotion to First Artist and was disappointed that her experience and contributions to company PR, as well as her superb photography skills, and creativity with the pointe shoe tree were not publicly acknowledged by management.

As one half of “Photography by ASH” she is still involved in the ballet world, which is great news.

ETA posting in synch with @Irmgard!

17 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Any homegrown (not just trained here) talent joining? 

Although Mayuko Iwanaga represented Japan at YAGP in Osaka, she has trained at ENBS.

Hi Miss Emily,

It’s been a long time since my dd last did EYB; back then the auditions were onstage at the theatre where the performances took place.  If I remember rightly, they took 50 dancers from the 100 who auditioned.  
 

The auditions were in 2 groups; juniors and seniors, and the students were placed in lines across the stage.  One of the teachers would demonstrate a short sequence of steps and the dancers would perform the sequence in their lines.  After each sequence the front line would go to the back of the stage, so the next line would be at the front, and so on.

A good ear and quick eye is useful for auditions like this, as is a good knowledge of ballet vocabulary, although the teacher demonstrated anyway, and what the panel liked among other things was the ability to “have a go”.

Auditions may be by video submission now, of course, which is a different ballgame.  In any case, I’ve added some “tags” to the top of this thread; if you click on them, all the threads discussing EYB should show as a list.  And hopefully someone with more recent experience will be along soon!

Thanks Lin. 😊

Hello JMFCballet and welcome.  As LinMM correctly pointed out, Doing Dance is the right subforum for your question, so I’ve moved the thread.

Beautifully put as always, Sim.  I can’t remember when I first saw Laura dance, but performances that stand out in my memory are her Manon with Federico Bonelli (what a superb partnership that was), Mary Vetsera, Green Girl in Dances at a Gathering, and her absolutely extraordinary Natalia Petrovna in “Month” (a role I wish she’d been able to perform for her final London appearance).
 

I feel privileged to have watched her inhabit her every role, and will miss her very much.  Thank goodness she’s staying on to give the younger dancers the marvellous benefits of her wisdom. 

Hi It070809 and welcome. 😊

Congratulations on being accepted into Ballet Boost.  After you’ve been there for a term, it might be worth speaking to your BB teacher and asking for her honest opinion of your potential.  Try not to get hung up on worrying about Central Pre-Seniors; like most upper schools, not all their associates will get a place on the full-time course, and there will be plenty of dancers at auditions who aren’t associates.  
 

Has your current teacher given you any indication of what they think your prospects are; do you have the physical facility/capacity (turnout, the strength to maintain turnout while dancing, and the other aspects that Kerfuffle has mentioned) and so on?  

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

Yes I mentioned her...another lovely dancer and  a good promotion prospect. 

Sorry Richard, I missed that. 😊

On 27/05/2023 at 10:56, PeterS said:

Shout out for Harris Bell who also deserves to move up the ranks imho

Another vote here for Harris; I would very much like to see him move up.  I also agree with Leticia Dias and Isabella Gasparini; both really lovely dancers with great stage presence.  
 

I don’t know if Mica Bradbury has been mentioned but she always draws my eye too.

Great advice from everyone.  As mum of an adult daughter who has the opposite problem (hypermobility), one thing we learned from the late, great Dance Physio Shirley Hancock is that stretches are like prescription medication - what works for one young dancer can be extremely bad for another.  Also, that flexibility should be balanced with strengthening exercises, because there’s no point having flat turnout without the strength to maintain it while actually dancing.
 

In my opinion, stretches & exercises should be tailored to the individual, and adjusted as necessary, especially when a child/teenager is growing.  Flexibility and strength both go up and down like a yo-yo during puberty, so try not to worry too much.   We were also advised never to stretch cold muscles, so to do a full barre session first before stretching anything.  
 

As others have said, stretches and body conditioning exercises should be prescribed by the child’s teacher or Physio.  

42 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

This thread popping up again made me wonder (I am very nosey) about the original poster & her daughter, and whether they ever did relocate the whole family to London for the RBS or other London ballet school. 

Indeed! @Entrechat hasn’t posted since 2021 though, so we’ll probably never know.

34 minutes ago, Ondine said:

Thanks to today's forum Links via @Jan McNulty

 

A review, and it's good to see Harris Bell in the header pic (along with Melissa Hamilton).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/jun/11/royal-ballet-triple-bill-review-wayne-mcgregor-untitled-2023-corybantic-games-anastastia-act-iii

 

 

Excellent.  I’m a fan of Harris, and it’s great that he’s being given more stage time.