Drdee

Again I think writing in the forum can be tricky - our messages can be misinterpreted or misconstrued. Some kindness and trying to understand the other point of view can only help us. I know that what can be perceived as ‘negativity’ or ‘scaremongering’ was never the intention of those expressing their frustrations. The HE funding model is frustratingly difficult and changing then the differences between sectors (vocational, apprenticeships etc) is notoriously political. I do have personal experiences in these matters in my HE role.

@Harwel I agree with the degree apprenticeship route. Did your son live at home during that time? This is one of challenges of retraining and what is available geographically. I am sure the organisation is richer as a result.

The issue is nothing to do with size. It is about developing healthy and strong  (physically, mentally and emotionally) dancers in a nurturing and respectful learning environment. Poor practice needs to dealt with in a developmental way but I am sure that these things are not easy to change and do not happen overnight.  If anyone is interested in the change.org proposition or has any ideas about the best way to approach this please let us know. Happy to contribute is some way.

In email correspondence with Mark Daly, whilst he not sure if the BBC will do another documentary, he thinks it might be able to do some follow ups for news or the website.   He is happy for dancers to email him mark.daly@bbc.co.uk. I am sure that parents could write on their behalf it this is too traumatic (my thoughts).

18 minutes ago, capybara said:

I think you may be one of the posters on here with more knowledge of the issues from the students’ perspective than many of us. Some other experiences and views differ. But everyone is probably struggling to express themselves in writing, which is always more difficult than being part of an ‘in person’ discussion, especially where really important and sensitive issues are concerned. So we need to give ourselves a bit of understanding and leeway too.

 

To answer Ondine’s original question - absolutely not!

 

Agree with absolutely not. I have my ENB ticket ready for Sept and looking forward to it. Education is key and the ‘myths’ of ballet training need to be challenged!!

Just now, Drdee said:

I think watching the ‘Panorama’ programme and listening to ‘File on 4’ might help some of you better articulate your posts. They do not intend to be insensitive but they could be construed as being so by a reader. 

Just like buying ‘fair trade’ or ethically sourced produce we need to see that there is a ‘dark side’ to current ballet training which could improve.

I think watching the ‘Panorama’ programme and listening to ‘File on 4’ might help some of you better articulate your posts. They do not intend to be insensitive but they could be construed as being so by a reader. 

11 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Does anyone know if the Panorama programme included a whistleblowing number / contact for anyone affected by the contents of their programme? 

There was a link to BBC Action but maybe on news page and bbc sounds.

13 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

Does anyone have the direct email addresses of the ADs of various schools and would thus be able to send them a link to this podcast? I would gladly point them in that direction if had a way of making contact because I think they would (should) find the content helpful.

I can personally say that both ADs are aware of the podcast. One follows it personally and the other has been made aware of it via a number of avenues. I am sure they both can see that it has a place in the social media world. 

9 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

This is absolutely right.  DrDee do you know whether any of the vocational schools have adopted (or been asked to adopt) the "Safe Teaching Practice" Guidelines from the Checklist on the Safer Dance website? They look eminently sensible and remind me of a similar set of guidelines devised in the wake of the specialist music schools scandal (which aimed to stop unsafe practices like teachers giving lessons in their own homes, touching students without consent, using inappropriately sexualised language with the excuse that it reflected their 'passion' for the music).  There was a big push amongst the community of musicians campaigning for change to get institutions to commit to following those guidelines.  It seems to me that would be a very good focus for any communications/petitions people wanted to address to ballet schools (although I'm sure Safer Dance will have thought of this already!)

I can say that these guidelines have been prepared by VOLUNTEERS (who professionally linked to dance and education). We do have ENBS and a number of the Musical Theatre schools on the working group who have provided feedback where appropriate. The list is on the website.

So what does a young 23 year old ballet dancer who runs a dance podcast on instagram in their spare time do when they receive 150 private messages from young dancers as a result of this BBC Panorama programme and File on 4 programme? Where does she start? I really do wish that the Artistic Directors of these two schools did go on camera or at least take a much more personal approach to this situation. Of course some of these dancers are at other schools. I have got permission by the @the_hardcorps_podcast to post this on this forum. 

I don’t think it’s helpful blaming the schools entirely. 

When I hear these comments I just do not know if we saw the same programme @Graceful. This is not about blaming the schools. It is that these two schools are failing their students. These schools are trying their best but they are needing to tackle head on a number of 'outdated and counterproductive' toxic behaviours/attitudes that emanate within the ballet industry. This starts with the training and finishes with the productions we attend and are nurtured by. The teaching approaches need to change and adapt to what is happening now and meet the needs of the future generation of dancers. This programme has been thoughtfully put together with professionals who care about the industry and those who work in that industry. This needs leadership and a diversity of voices. 

10 minutes ago, along for the ride mum said:

the issue it hand is not wether or not dancers need to be a certain size or weight, or wether or not they have the physical, mental or emotional attributes to ‘make it’ in the dance world - the issue at hand is the way in which the requirements are communicated to CHILDREN in an educational environment by teachers who have a legal and moral duty of care! 
bullying is never acceptable, bullying tactics are particularly abhorrent when aimed at a child by an adult in a position of power. I don’t understand how anyone can argue differently. It is never a child’s fault, it is not about the child not having the necessary resilience! 
there is so much more I could say, want to say, and may find a way to say at some point but please please can we keep this thread on track and open. 
 

All I can say as someone who has been involved in professional development of educators for 30 years this understanding needs to be practised by ALL teachers (Is there any teaching observation going on? What support do teachers have if they are struggling?). The dance studio is a place of LEARNING. This is not another plug but The Safer Dance working group https://www.dsswg.org.uk/home has over 100 dance and safeguarding educators on it. The Chair is a trustee of RAD. This is not going to go away. There are many dance educators and leaders who are aware of the poor teaching practices in elite institutions as well as elsewhere. The schools are not changing fast enough. 

13 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

Well yes.  They cannot comment, clearly, on individual cases out of privacy concerns and apparently a court case is ongoing involving one person at least.

 

There were written statements.

 

 

 

 

Maybe not but they really need to empathise with those who have spoken out without jeopardising the important legal and ethical issues. They need to validate those dancers interviewed as their words are part of the solution.

I think it would be best to shift the focus towards the way ballet is being taught. There is something in that which needs to be discussed. All the dancers talked how they interpreted feedback and how their self worth was so closely linked to negative and positive feedback. How do you learn to not misconstrue feedback? Can you ask the teacher? How do you learn to separate your dancing technique etc. from your self-belief and self-worth? Perhaps there needs to be more talking in ballet classes!! I think the File on 4 radio programme provides more on how the ballet industry could improve. Without wanting to lecture anyone we have to remember that on other online spaces dancers are talking. There are many dancers who have been triggered by the programme. There are those who did not experience bullying but observed others being bullied. It is tricky being the bystander and feeling helpless. There are those in companies dancing who want to ensure things change. If these are learning institutions then they need to do better as the trauma needs to stop. As adults we can write letters/emails. As Luke Jennings said there is a elements of a ‘cult’ in ballet which is perhaps why there is not this ‘open and honest conversation’ that we would all like to happen. 

17 minutes ago, Lifeafterballet said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001qdt6

 

😢

There are some brilliant as well as sobering interviews in this programme with some concrete advice for change.

There is also a radio ‘File on 4’ programme that accompanies the Panorama one. Some of the points are further explored. Both schools really need more advice on how to respond to these programmes empathetically and more professionally.

I applaud the 50 dancers who spoke to Mark Daly (reporter) that has shaped the programme. I am so impressed with the way those interviewed could articulate themselves. I hope that ballet schools show this as part of their curriculum as well in teacher training.

1 hour ago, Out-the-other-side said:

There is at least one member of Safer Dance with vast experience of supporting dancers struggling with issues that are raised in this programme. I do hope they had some input into this programme also. (Assuming it is not you - apologies if it is but not sure if I can name names here) 

I am not in the programme but I am sure there will be others from Safer Dance involved. It really is a very good bunch of committed professionals. Look forward to seeing the programme.

I can say that the journalist leading this programme approached me through my capacity on the Safer Dance (Dance School Safeguarding Working Group). I do not think it will focus on one particular school it will depend on who they have interviewed. Points that came up in my conversation with the journalist was around teaching methods and approaches, mental health and well-being and outdated, and contradictory dietary advice. There is also going to be something on Radio 4 soonish that may focus much more on one particular school. I don’t think this is a witch hunt per se but there is much to unpack which warrants discussion. This generation of young dancers are much more vocal and will not tolerate some of the outdated conventions/practices. They are part of the solution so let’s hope they get a platform to have a voice. Having said that I hope it is a balanced argument.

I don’t want to be contrary for the sake of it but I think you may have misread some of the points in the article. They have dropped the ballet class from their audition process. This is similar to the London School of Contemporary Dance (not sure of the name). This is to be more inclusive and help those who have not studied ballet for extended periods to feel like they can audition there. Something we may see as accessible may not be like that for others. As someone whose daughters danced at a Midlands dance school where the minority are ‘white’ I discovered that there are many aspects of classical ballet that are elite. We are just not always aware of. We could start with the ballet bun and the effort required for different hair types to achieve it. We could look at the tights and shoe colour. Whilst there now is some colour choice they are not freely available everywhere and can cost more. Also, it could be a white working class ballet dancer publicly called out by an adjudicator about her fake tan being not appropriate in a ballet competition. Or the BAME dancers parents unable to afford multiple pairs of pointe shoes for competitions and exams let alone purchasing a tutu or accessing summer schools therefore their child is unable to pursue it to an advanced level and remain living at home. Even getting to the London RAD headquarters for a ballet exam knocked out the finances of one family (practice tutu, leotard, pointe shoes, bus tickets, day off work for zero contract parent, lunch). How many ballet graduates are there that are British BAME each year? Also, look at the audiences for ballet. Why is there a diverse audience for Ballet Black but not so much ENB or RB for example? 
Disclaimer: I am white and even me writing this makes me feel uncomfortable and we haven’t even started on the ballet repertoire and how race is depicted. 

On 06/05/2022 at 16:55, Drdee said:

Anyone got a young ballet fan who would interested in seeing this ballet? Is a single ticket...  It is a good seat and is Lamb and Hirano performing. Under 25 only. 

Now sold

Anyone got a young ballet fan who would interested in seeing this ballet? Is a single ticket...  It is a good seat and is Lamb and Hirano performing. Under 25 only. 

Swan Lake Tues 17th May 7.30pm

Young ROH ticket

level 5 amphitheatre 5C D-52 £25 open to

offers 

2 hours ago, MissEmily said:

@Newbie2Yes. There are a plethora of reasons why local dance schools might not want their students taking associate classes.

That’s right @MissEmily the school my dds went to was not keen on associates and there were reasons. Post Covid they have changed their minds somewhat. It is a thorny issue to say the least. It was to do with their festival team and the already busy training schedule.