Drdee

The advice I was given by an experienced retired AD was if your dd has not gained a paid position after graduation then doing a pre-professional programme would a good learning opportunity to dance, to see up close how a dance company works and build networks. This would be better than paying for private lessons and staying at home. Some UK pre-professional programmes do offer bursaries so you would pay food and board and not the fees. As other posters have mentioned not all programmes are equal. This is a tricky area - just work within what you can afford. Do not go into debt over it. 

12 minutes ago, FlexyNexy said:

My parents lived through Russian occupation of 1968 in Czechoslovakia when tanks barged into our country. Sadly we are fearing that the history is repeating.  I myself lived through soviet regime in our country and wore the pioneer uniform in my primary school. Watching the videos yesterday where kids in Ukraine were practicing drills brought not very nice memories of my childhood. 

I was telling my daughter today about my experiences of living in Budapest when the wall came down in 1989 and my Hungarian boyfriend’s family and their troubles during the Soviet occupation. I can imagine for many in the arts this will be a troubling time. 

On 21/02/2022 at 17:52, lay_enpointe said:

hi ! I've never posted here so let me know if I've done anything wrong !! 

 

I'm just curious to know about the level of ballet training, especially pointe in contemporary schools in the uk, in particular trinity laban and nscd. rambert is my dream school due to the balance between ballet and contemporary, but I don't want to set my heart on it as it is very hard to get into, but i also don't want my ballet to suffer if i go to one of the others. any help would be hugely appreciated!!

I would think the ‘philosophy’ of contemporary dance courses such as Laban and others may well be ballet as a core but no pointe work. Remember the roots of Rambert school is classical ballet which is why there is still pointe work. Interesting to see how that develops. You may consider Central or London Studio Centre if you want pointe work and contemporary.  

The tide is turning. The ballet companies, competitions and schools are engaging with the Instagram active and savvy. The original point about when (13years) to have an account becomes irrelevant when there are parent controlled accounts.   We are in the momager era and it is here to stay. I find it odd when an adult writes for a 10 year old as them and then another adult  replies to the child knowing it’s an adult writing the response. Now that is where it becomes weird. 

I know in the work of assessment there is ‘assessment of learning’ and ‘assessment for learning’. We hope that adjudicators can ‘judge’ a dancer’s performance as well as give advice for future performances. I know in All England Dance there needed to be winners from a range of schools so there is an element of politics involved. When unplaced we would say ‘you danced beautifully you were just not acknowledged for it’. I would hope poor feedback would be pushed back to the giver of the advice not the receiver. In that it says more about them not the performance.

17 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

And often bad on the wallet too!! 

As a vegan I am not sure what we are comparing here re: costs. A plant based diet does not need to include highly processed food. There is a plethora of options and of varying quality.  However, I can hopefully vouch that no animal has been harmed or killed in the manufacturing process. Let’s hope the workers are treated well and paid a fair wage.

One that comes to

mind is Chloe Bayliss - she had been trained by Marie Walton Mahon in Australia. She’s an actor now but pursued ballet to a professional standard and stepped away due to a health condition. Her book is ‘En Pointe’ I think her audience might be aspiring dancers -https://www.amazon.co.uk/En-Pointe-Chloe-Bayliss-ebook/dp/B07T3H6BPF

31 minutes ago, Kendie76 said:

 

I know someone who got a yes from the audition. 

I thought that would the case. From an administrative and resource point of view you would want to accept people from the 1st audition. I don’t know what the cohort size is this year. 

34 minutes ago, Happymum said:

Does Urdang give a straight “yes” this year or is it a “no” or recall? I’ve heard of many recalls but not a single “yes” so am wondering if it’s simply a case of two rounds of auditions this year (if DD is lucky to get a recall it means a total cost goes up by yet another hotel stay in London 🙄 )

I know that Urdang is rationalising their courses and only offering the degree next academic year. They are giving offers but they may be less in number than before. Recall is an option but I am not sure of how many have been offered places that way.

Oops with the spelling Steven McRae my apologies ...

‘The hardcorps podcast’ is a platform that came out of lockdown designed for young dancers to share their training experiences and support each other. Steven McRea’s interview today might be something you may want to share with your dc. His honesty around so many topics homesickness, body image, teachers’ comments that still affect him, learning through injuries can only encourage the next generation of dancers https://www.instagram.com/p/CZZ4mjJAYSf/?utm_medium=copy_link

Note: you may need to then choose your podcast choice through the link. 

2 hours ago, Jane said:

Dancers especially ballet dancers need to continue to have top quality dance classes until they have a company position and are doing class. For most once out of training impossible to access, either the expense, location or space at home.

Totally agree with you @Janethose challenges are real and I have direct experience. I was trying to be optimistic and if I could set up big house with free accommodation, free high quality dance classes for unemployed ballet dancers in between contracts I would. I need to win the lottery!!

15 hours ago, rowan said:

But dancers can’t wait five years after graduation. It’s a young person’s job and has a short shelf life. It’s not the same as being an actor, painter or writer. 

Sorry that my comments were not clear. I think we should be prepared to wait a few years post graduation and maybe longer after the pandemic. Five years may seem too long in the dance world considering the average stage career. I was talking about the performing arts, MT, ballet, and maybe acting. It’s just my opinion and there are many variables at play. 

I wonder what we mean by employment ‘stability’ in the arts. From my experience this is an oxymoron. I think ‘the media’ are the ones who peddle the myths, don’t focus on the unpleasant bits, the financial reality, the rejection, the politics, the subjectiveness. It is not for the faint hearted. Ballet is tough, not well paid, physically gruelling ... but no one can say witnessing a live performance is not transformative. I am sure that is what attracts ballet dancers to perform. From those I know who have succeeded in the arts you do have to wait out the first five years (at least) after graduation. Yes some get jobs straight away but there are those that don’t but may supplement part time contracts with other work. Those part time contracts do add up and can lead to a full time contract. In the end it comes down to how long someone is prepared to struggle in the precariousness of it all and who can support them as they do this (financially, emotionally,  politically). I have been married to an artist for nearly 30 years who had had his ups and downs - (more downs since having children who dance) but no one knows what the future holds. The artistic life is not for everyone that’s for sure. It’s trying to remain calm in heavy seas and keep travelling. 

1 hour ago, Kate_N said:

If you're in or near Birmingham, you might consult Annette Nicholson, an ex-Birmingham Royal Ballet soloist, and now a wonderful teacher. She offers, through her studio Nicholson Dance Studio,  a dancer screening for those who are aiming for vocational school

https://www.nicholsonschoolofdance.com/dancers-screenings

 

I don't know the cost, but you'd get excellent feedback and honest advice.

 

@drdance a member of this forum, might offer a similar assessment, also in the Midlands.

 

MODs: I hope it's OK to link this. I have no interest (financial or otherwise) in this enterprise, although I used to do class fairly regularly with Ms Nicholson when she taught at DanceXchange in central Birmingham, so I have direct personal experience of her positive nurturing approach to dancers of all abilities.

I recommended Annette Nicholson @Squawk020 as she has very well priced ‘back to school’ 2 day summer/winter schools and her Sunday associates and private coaching. The screening service was around £90 when we used it (2018) and were able to

pay in instalments - it was very good and they set you a personalised strengthening plan. We have used her since 2016 and even now for preparing and filming audition videos for professional ballet jobs. As you said your funds are tight which means you need to weigh up each activity one at a time. As many said increasing your ballet classes would be a good plan of action. 

@Squawk020 have you looked at other Midlands vocational ballet training courses as well? You mention you don’t look like the most typical dancer what do you mean by that? If you are doing other dance genres you may

consider looking at Rambert as well as they do have bits of funding support on top of loan etc. Could you do both Inter Foundation and Inter at the same time? 

I have been riveted by this thread and all the different contributions. What’s tough is trying to get to grips with a ‘shared’ understanding as we all are coming from different points of view and prior knowledge. 

2 hours ago, Sebastian said:

The programme has, along with the usual sections, an interview with Tamara Rojo on her vision for the ballet; an article by Jane Pritchard on the history of Raymonda; an article by Doug Fullington on the original notation; and articles on Florence Nightingale, the score and the Crimean War.
 

What the programme does not have is any detail of the (in my view not unproblematic) differences between Petipa’s choreography and structure, and what has been put on stage in the West End this week. 
 

An interesting Raymonda discussion between three experts - including Doug Fullington - has recently appeared online: 

 

https://www.alastairmacaulay.com/all-essays/byq3y6560y798jcrlmiwp4s4su9ii6?rq=Raymonda

 

Along with much else the fascinating exchange includes more about the process behind this production. It also corrects a mistake in the programme and offers examples of recent Bolshoi programmes helpful to those interested in the history of choreography. Imho the ENB could have helpfully learned from the Bolshoi:

 

>>Konaev 8. I appreciate the practice of explanations given in programs by choreographers: what sources were used, what pieces were reconstructed and what was composed anew. In this respect, the trend-setter was the Bolshoi Publishing Department, which included a special table in the program of Alexei Ratmansky’s and Yuri Burlaka’s Le Corsaire (2007). In the program of Ratmansky’s Giselle (2019) I edited, this table was extremely detailed.

 

Thanks @Sebastianfor the link. I am sure it will good further reading. I am not sure what is the typical ‘must haves’ for a ballet performance programme nowadays. I am sure they tried to provide sufficient information for their broad audience and keep it at an affordable price. As a glossy coloured programme further pages may have meant the printing cost would have increased the sale price. I was pleasantly surprised as I have paid more for much less in the past. 
 

edit : factual errors could be directed to the company I am sure.

12 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

I didn't buy a programme, but I would have expected it to have details about what has been retained/changed etc. The programme should be an educative tool, not just a promotional one.

Personally I found the programme extremely educative, with a good range of contributors.

4 hours ago, balletbean said:

Hi. Not too sure if you’ve seen or heard the news. An announcement was made today that Betty Laine retired on the 6th January. No permeant replacement as the interview process has yet to commence. 
 

My daughter got a place at Laines but wanted to do a degree and is in her 2nd year at Urdang. 

4 hours ago, FionaE said:

Two completely opposing views!!!

 

Do slipped disc ever write anything positive?  Their review is stuck in the past. 
 

I hope this new Raymonda lasts … it’s visually and musically appealing with lots of ballet.  The change of costumes from tutus to period dresses will attract different audiences too. 

The word ‘violence’ used in the headline by Macauley has really irked me for some reason. I think it appears too strong considering his critique but also with the current concerns about violence towards women and what might have been in the original Raymonda story it just seems so tone deaf. We are off to see it on Friday and are looking forward to it and yes the period and National costumes will be a treat.

I would say the pandemic, lockdown, companies loss of income, Brexit has really shaken things in the ballet world in the UK. Graduate destinations are not as robust or assured. Think about your Dd’s personality and her mental strength. All I know is dancers who were assessed out of Elmhurst and RBS but kept training are getting jobs at BRB and ENB and elsewhere. 

18 hours ago, Kendie76 said:

Did your dd get into Wilkes did you say? Thanks for the tips 

@Kendie76my advice is let your Dd do all the auditions see which ones offer her a place and sit down and look at the pros and cons. The training is the just one chapter of your Dd’s journey. What is her aim after training? That might help you make a decision. I have no knowledge of Wilkes but a bit more about others such as Performers, Addict, Trinity Laban as well as Arts Ed, Urdang, Laine,LSC. One place you may consider ESPA in Stamford fairly new but some great nurturing teachers.

1 minute ago, Kendie76 said:

Yeah she’s done competitions etc and danced since she was 2. I will say she does look young for her age so maybe it’s that to be honest. She has performers next week, addict on the 16th feb and trinity Laban when they send a date 

It is really a tough thing to do these auditions. So hats off to your Dd! I know that my Dd learnt a lot doing groups, trios, duets on top of solos (the highs and the lows) and tried not to get shaken by the sheer numbers at the auditions and focus on the moment and listen. Is the Trinity Laban the MT course? That one is more singing than dancing. Of the three look at Performers. They do a degree and Foundation. 

1 hour ago, Kendie76 said:

Wow I know it’s hard when they get a no and today she did sound crushed bless her but then her Wilkes audition lifted her spirits and they were so lovely 

@Kendie76Has your Dd done much performing at festivals? Just wondering. Does she have other auditions coming up after  Wilkes?