The red shoes

1 hour ago, stardust1 said:

I was able to listen to the recent Zoom call meeting with parents of children invited to final auditions.  It was specifically said that it’s possible for a child to be doing very well in the foundation year assessments as they are measured against the requirements of that program at that specific time but  they may still not be invited to progress because the expectations of them - physically, emotionally and technically - are very, very different in the next stage of training and they are not be able to meet those in their opinion, whether that’s years 10/11 from year 9 or at the next two entry/exit points further up the school.   The context was very much intended to be positive in that not being asked to stay on was no indication that you were failing or not right for a classical dance career but that you just weren’t right for their next stage.  He said many will go on to flourish at other schools and will always benefit from being able to have ‘successfully completed such and such program(s) at RBS’ on their CV.  My point is that not being asked to stay on at one of the transition points may still be an unexpected outcome for a student and their parents as it is not solely linked to assessment outcomes, this is why it should not be considered as ‘having been assessed out’.  Others who were part of the same meeting may have interpreted this differently of course.

100% to all of this !! 

2 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I agree, no DC should ever live in false hope. Even up until year 11, they are still very young. Entering at year 7, there is a lot of uncertainties - physiques change, injuries happen, passions fade - BUT if schools really carefully consider their recruitment, monitoring, and feedback to these students, then no one should live in false hope for 3 or 5 years. What to me is harsher is being assessed out/not being offered the next stage after 3 years sometimes out of the blue, with very little or no clue of what’s to come. If schools give regular, honest, thorough and realistic feedback to students as they progress through the years, then these students and their parents can make informed decisions out of their own accord without having to be assessed out. And I always did wonder too whether being assured 3 or 5 years is a top consideration of any parent or child when faced with a choice between RBS and another school. If it were between two other schools perhaps but let’s face it, RBS is RBS and it’s easier to remember those who turned down places because it happens so rarely.  To answer the original poster’s question, I have read of and heard of lots of success stories of dancers who have been assessed out or were told they weren’t good enough etc. It does depend on the student’s personality and constitution - are they the type so determined to want to to prove others wrong and still succeed and will they find excellent and nurturing training after or will the system affect or worse. ‘break’ them to the point that they would just want to quit dancing entirely. 

Just to point out.. they have regular reports and meetings and it’s made quite clear in the reports if a student is exceeding about required standards, meeting require standards, improvement needed to reach required standards or significant improvement needed. Obviously if your technique , musicality etc keeps being marked as improvement needed through year 7&8 I’d say it was a good indication that your time is nearly up. The drive and graft is up to the student to get their reports up into the meeting and exceeding sections . It can’t just be down to the teachers . 
They are very transparent.. no shocks 

That’s all I wanted to say 

4 minutes ago, valentina said:

The point of a good ballet school is to ' train' the best dancers.

A student was assessed out at age 12. She arrived at my vocational school where she trained for 4 years. She was then accepted back to the original school in US. She declined the place. My vocational school did the work the other was supposed to do. All that heartache for nothing.  She went elsewhere and gained a Classical contract.

Maybe this will give confidence to the OP

Fantastic!! Great story !

4 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

However, those 5 years aren’t purely training, there is academics too as these vocational  schools like to emphasise . 5 years is fairly normal in any other school and I would think that a disruption after 3 years has more impact than one after 5 years when they’ve done their GCSE’s and are more mature age-wise. A lot of kids in non-vocational schools would change educational institutions after year 11 whether it’s to go to upper school/6th form/college. I would say there’s a much smaller percentage having to move after year 9 and no matter how prepared you think a child is, it must take some adjustment to go from a boarding school “bubble” to a “normal” school. It must feel like a massive change from studying and living with say, 30 or less other kids in your year group to going to school where you’re one of maybe 150-200 in your year group. You also go from almost having this single focused goal to having to contend with thinking of more than one option. 

Yes true but a lot may have had false hope for 5 years and then realising they aren’t cut out for a career in classical ballet. Hard pill to swallow at any age . 
My ds has a choice between RBS and another school which promised 5 years. 
I laid it all out to him and he still wanted to go to RBS as wanted to at least “ try” to get through to the end. His words and kudos to him. 
 

I think this has now gone way off track of what the original poster was looking for so will leave it there 🙂 

4 minutes ago, valentina said:

Realistically RBS don't have any other choice  but to help with audition videos seeing as the students are at boarding school and wouldn't be able to do them anywhere else. Although that is helpful, this is not really what I mean when I use the word support. Support is asking the students how they're managing to continue in their day to day life ( ballet, academics, weekends, knowing that they will be leaving while many of their friends will be moving further up the school. Support for the end of the year when their friends are choosing who to share rooms with the following term. Someone to talk to when they are worried about uprooting once again and having to start all over in a new, unfamiliar territory. The first week back, standing on the barre in a school you love, knowing you can't stay. That's tough for some kids.... because that's what they are, just kids. The ballet training may or may not be great, but it won't change the natural feelings that arise in youngsters when there's uncertainty and worry. A cold email helping to find another school doesn't help when you need someone to talk to and listen. I disagree with all the posters, who say they have gone in with their eyes wide open. The adults may have their eyes wide open ( you haven't experienced it till it happens) but no child of ten, which is what many are when they audition, can tell you how they're going to feel 3 years down the line because they're still developing as people throughout the process. Plan b c and x is great and sensible but it doesn't take away the pain of breaking the bonds kids make when a boarding school becomes their 2nd home, and their friends and houseparents become their 2nd family.

Of course.. and everything you say is true.

They have a wonderful counsellor available every day and will see many students on a weekly basis for a variety of issues. 
The pastoral care is very good and has helped my DS no end through ups and downs with moving away etc. 
 

My point was that they have a reputation to uphold and so they have to find a way of choosing the best. Yes harsh but true. And actually my 11 year old is very aware of the year 9 process. They are all so supportive of the ones who won’t be continuing on.. he is witnessing the process now and will know what to expect. As a parent you can prepare them as much as possible but it’s inevitable it will cause heartbreak. So does getting an injury, so does not getting the part you wasn’t, or not getting into upper school after 5 years training at any of the top schools in the UK. Heartbreak, disappointment..  it’s all part of it. 
I feel for those at other Vocational schools who have 5 years training because that is what the school sold them, and then are unsuccessful in all their upper school auditions . Again bitter disappointment. The school promised them 5 years and that’s what they got.. but now nothing . 
There is plenty of support for the students leaving and yes it’s horrendous but most stages of a ballet career are . 

25 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Has this actually happened to a year group yet? How many of them have got through? It is still quite  brutal and seems like  a convenient escuse for replacing them with international talent. It’s as though they are normalising children having to leave. 

Sorry when I said all year 9’s must apply to other schools, that’s wasn’t because all were assessed out that was for their plan B, C and so on which is actually vital and very important the ballet world 

22 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Has this actually happened to a year group yet? How many of them have got through? It is still quite  brutal and seems like  a convenient escuse for replacing them with international talent. It’s as though they are normalising children having to leave. 

As opposed to giving false hope? They may just not be what they are looking for anymore , doesn’t mean to say they won’t go on elsewhere to be successful. 
Most of this year’s year 9 are going through to 10&11 which is fantastic . Some leave because ballet is not for them anymore... yes that does happen! 
Yes it’s not nice but lots of warning is given right at the start of year 7. You go in with your eyes wide open to the fact and your children are also prepared from the start. 

21 hours ago, valentina said:

I'm sure that no one is in any doubt that from a dancing perspective, being assessed out ( or not being successful in continuing in the training) can lead to a renewed energy and momentum and in turn, lead to greater happiness, fulfilment and success, possibly more than if the student had remained in the same environment. Many students who arrived at my vocational school, having been assessed out of another school, went on to have very successful dance careers, many in renowned classical ballet and contemporary companies.

But let's not forget that having to change schools after 3 years, no matter how prepared you may be (how mentally prepared can you be at such a young age?) can be anything from a small trauma to something much more traumatic. You are having to deal with great disappointment, a period of low self esteem, uncertainty about where you will go next, will you be accepted, and what will the future look like? While saying goodbye to friends who have almost become brothers and sisters, knowing you have to start friendships all over again somewhere else. There will also be students who feel they have let everyone down, even if they don't verbalise it. I just felt I should mention this, as there is much more to it than statistics and success and having a great deal of support will surely help students with a smooth transition.

Indeed this is true however they have had 3 years of the next training in the world ( in my opinion) and that is better than none at all or 5 years of mediocre.

RBS have said ALL year 9 students must apply to other vocational schools and indeed normal

secondary schools. They help them with their videos , etc and are very supportive . 

11 minutes ago, Lilidance said:

She is 10 and it is the first time so we can try again but still it is not easy!

Don’t be disheartened. My ds got a no in year 5 for summer intensive then a yes in year 6 and now in year 7 at White Lodge. 
Looking back his photos were really not great .. I rushed them . 
it’s purely based on photos NOT talent.. remember that Xx 

1 minute ago, MissEmily said:

Hello again!

 

My pupil has just been offered a place at YDA for Year 7, but still has final auditions at Elmhurst (23rd March) and Tring (18th March) to go. The letter from YDA says she has to accept her place by 18th March. Does anyone have any experience of how to deal with this?

 

Thank you!

This depends on if you need to hand over a substantial deposit to accept her place. I know Tring do this ! 

19 hours ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Last year I believe there were 24 boys at finals 

This is correct and they took 12 . They didn’t fill the 15 places 

Just out of curiosity and possibly a bit nosey ... are any boys auditing for WL year 8? 
I ask as a current year 7 boys mum and there are some spaces in our year group going into year 8. Apparently there are auditions tomorrow as ds and his fellow year group had to tidy up the dorm for people looking around tomorrow 

19 minutes ago, MissEmily said:

In London, it was José Caryol, Mark Annear and Hope Keelan. I’d like to think the panel would be the same across all the centres at this strange to ensure consistency. 

Hope Keelan only retired at Christmas and is already back ! She is teaching the year 7 boys till the Summer and sitting on auditions panels and assessment panels ! Can’t keep away 😂

5 hours ago, SJBallet said:

My mistake. Apparently it  wasn’t  Chris Powney it was the new director of the foundation course. 

José Carayol... he has taken over as director of the foundation course years 7-9. Lovely man! 

9 hours ago, Bookish said:

Has anyone else had a no from Elmhurst and asked for feedback? We got an email saying she could get feedback via the young dancers email, which we’ve asked for, but not had yet. 

If you’re waiting on feedback of any sort from young dancers you’ll be waiting a very long time 🤦🏻‍♀️

6 hours ago, Ottobotto said:

My son is also going to the WL finals in March. I asked his teacher and she seemed to think it was 10th and 11th and the info definitely says you need to be available for both days. She said they do physio checks  on all students so some would have those on the first day and then they would swap over and some would have them on the second day. I guess it depends on how many are there, but if it's 30+ then they would need 2 days to do them all I suppose  .  So I'm planning for 2 days of roaming rather than just one 🙂!

Last year all the boys  were in one day and they had the class and the physio check. They were in small groups and rotated .

9 hours ago, balletboy8 said:

DS WL auditions are 10th and 11th March - does anyone know when they give results? Does he also have to get through the 10th to make the 11th? 😀

He will be either on the10th or 11th. Last year we heard quite quickly I think within 10 days 

3 hours ago, SJBallet said:

Ha I’ve just read this as I’m sat contemplating the day ahead which is DDs prelim audition for WL…… she’s not that flexible… fingers crossed she gives them another reason to want to watch her. 

They have a criteria... so to tick as many boxes as possible. Not just flexibility!! Best of Luck xxx 

8 hours ago, Ottobotto said:

Ok thank you! So not all applicants hear at the same time then? This seems almost as weird as putting the stretching elements right the beginning of the audition 😆!!

Yes they do put stretching at the beginning lol. My son said this at the WL finals last year. 
I’m inclined to say it’s so they can see flexibility/ potential flexibility at the start and then know who to watch / or not bother watching for the rest of the audition... harsh but true 😬

On 28/07/2021 at 09:13, Anna C said:

I think it’s easy to forget that we, as parents, are paying customers, and when our child spends much of their week at one particular dance school, we get emotionally involved and can start to feel (or be made to feel) disloyal if we consider moving schools.  

 

When my dd was learning to swim, I had to move her twice before we found a Teacher she “clicked” with.  We didn’t think twice about loyalty, or whether the swimming teacher would be cross/upset/take it personally - the pool and teaching style were not working for dd.  Simple as that.  When we moved, she started to look forward to swimming lessons instead of fearing them, and progressed rapidly up the classes.  Looking back, I wish we had been able to change dance schools without fearing being labelled disloyal or getting a “bad reputation” in the small, close-knit dance world.  It should be a no-brainer that if our children are not thriving and getting what they need to progress, we take our money elsewhere.

 

I agree with drdance that speaking to the Teacher is vital, explain the issues and ask what, if anything, can change - if things improve, then great; if not, then there is nothing wrong with doing trial classes with other schools, seeing if they have space, and if so, giving the appropriate notice to your current school and making the switch.

Could it also be that maybe.. just maybe.. the child hasn’t got “ it” and no matter how many dance schools you go through, change too or how much money you throw at the teachers.. the child is not made for a professional career in dance. It’s not always the fault of the teacher or school by the way... you we can’t transform every child into dancers sadly. 

On 14/07/2021 at 08:47, Balletmummy18 said:

This year there are 7 girls from year 11 WL going into upper school in September-4 from the original Year 7.This was from a year group of 16. This is a big increase of WLodgers Into upper school from recent years.There is a good chance of getting into upper school if you have not completed WL. 

Would be interested to know how many boys from year 11 are going into upper school and how many of those started in year 7.??

6 hours ago, Legseleven said:

We have also heard of a UK student declining their offer of a WL place and deciding to stay at home and be an Associate instead. 

Was this a boy or girl? Year 7 entry? Was it recent ? 

19 hours ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I saw an Instagram post today about a student getting a mids offer so maybe there is movement.  RBS must be working their way through waitlists as I also some announcements on offers for the summer intensive.  I would not be surprised if there might be movement even in full time offers.

There has indeed been a girl offered a place at white lodge from the white lodge wait list! I think an international student has pulled out 

Apparently MA results are out? Saw a lady on another thread get hers just now xx Good luck to you all xx 

@Bookish there is a Costa a few minutes drive away on Pebble mill road... you can use toilets in there , I do this regularly 🤣