SissonneDoublee

I can also comment from experience, and what we feel as a (diverse) household is that our DC is in a nurturing, progressive environment. There will always be people with different experiences, but ours has been wholly positive. Excellent training, excellent education. The claims in the article certainly ring true with our experience.

It’s good to hear that your Pilates teacher has been given the all clear. I imagine they, like so many others are working out how to navigate the new restrictions whilst keeping their business afloat. My heart goes out to anyone that finds themself in this position again, especially as they really haven’t had time to recover from the impact of the last lockdown.

It sounds like your little toe will benefit from this period away from class, as a toe that is extremely painful really shouldn’t be used for ongoing pointe work, and possibly other aspects of your dance regime such as demi pointe/ relevés etc also need to be suspended until it has had a chance to recover. As frustrating as it is to rest, the damage done by continuing to dance on an injured toe will almost certainly be more serious than the original injury, and possibly wider reaching as the body tries to compensate.

A vocational student presenting with anything they described as ‘extremely painful’ would be on restricted dance (or possibly no dance) until the school medical team were satisfied that they were ready to return.

Wishing you a speedy and full recovery!

On a normal year Mr Annear attends every in-person audition, so I would imagine he is also viewing the videos in the same way. He definitely has a very good overview of who is applying and remembers children from one year to the next.

Learning to manage her time will be essential to your DD as she moves up through secondary school, and this skill will serve her well for vocational training where the pressures of academic work still have to be balanced with the demands of the artistic timetable. 24 pieces of homework is actually less than one a day (Mon-Fri) since 15th September, so the school will not consider this a lot. Lots of Year 7 students find training themselves to get homework done on time difficult, but if she is genuinely 100% focused on a task (ie no TV, no texting, etc) and it is taking longer than the allocated time, she is probably going into more detail than they expect her to. It will feel less overwhelming with a good plan of when things will be completed and keeping an eye on what needs doing first according to the submission dates will help

7 minutes ago, Spamcat said:

Although it is also really sad to think that a child who was so stunning didn't make it. I hope she made it somewhere else.

There are so many beautiful dancers out there. Vocational ballet training is only one way of making it, but is perhaps also the most difficult to access. Talent, anatomy, dedication and passion all need to line up. All essential, and difficult to change if not there. There are lots of ways to enjoy a career in dance though. Ballet is just one of them. 

1 hour ago, Dancemum100 said:

I  just feel really peeved that for £50 my daughters videos were only watched for a few minutes. We always knew there was a nearly zero percent chance of gaining a place and she successfully auditioned for Elmhurst in the summer and loves it there so chances are we would have turned a place down anyway but still  really frustrating 

It’s so hard. They have really specific requirements regarding turnout and flexibility, and a child that doesn’t meet these would have to be absolutely magical to watch to get in without meeting these requirements. There was a girl in DD’s JA class with really limited turnout, but she was stunning to watch so they tried really hard to work with her issues. Ultimately, she didn’t make it into MAs, but it was easy to see why they wanted to help her.

With so many videos to watch, they couldn’t possibly spend time watching children that do not fulfil the criteria. The £50 fee is for the admin process and for them to be considered, but no one would expect them to keep watching if they know that a place will not be allocated to that child.

Children change a lot from one year to the next, and a ‘no’ one year can become a ‘yes’ later. RBS is not the only school, and ballet is not the only dance form, but the process is universally tough, and the first knock backs can be hard to accept.

8 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

OP-apologies for rather derailing your thread. I’ve been thinking about it though and I think whether a child who never made JA’s can get into WL depends on why s/he wasn’t accepted. If s/he had a bad day at the audition, or had an issue which has resolved itself by the time of the WL audition (or if the panel simply made a mistake) then yes, the child has a chance. But if the child didn’t get into JA’s because of something which hasn’t since changed (either because it’s something intrinsic to that child which will never change, or because it’s something they have yet to grow out of), then the child doesn’t have a chance. So if the child’s body proportions aren’t ‘right’ for the RBS, for example, that won’t have changed. Obviously though you don’t know why the place wasn’t forthcoming for JA’s....

 

 

In respect of the other debate, the whole thing seems like a lose-lose situation at times to be honest. RBS offers ‘better’ rewards but the chances of those going to someone joining in year 7 are tiny and the possible negative effects on a child as they move through the system are not to be ignored. Elmhurst (and other schools) may be better, more supportive, environments, but the rewards at the end seem less (if we define rewards as a spot in a top company). It feels like a game of Russian roulette, to be honest, where the house almost always wins. Guess it shows how much the child really has to love ballet above and beyond anything else. 

This!

The love of ballet has to be the only reason for being at any of these schools, as the odds are stacked against a career with a top company. A child finishing at RBS is suited to a position at such a company, because if they are not, they will not finish their education at the school. A student finishing at Elmhurst may also be suited to such a career, but children that are not are also allowed to finish their time at the school. This means that the graduate destinations are more varied at Elmhurst.

Vocational ballet school is a hugely enriching experience for a child that loves ballet and wants it to permeate every aspect of their life. Not all children capable of vocational training have this level of obsession, and not all children with this level of obsession are capable of vocational ballet training. It requires a ‘perfect storm’ of focus, drive, talent and physiology.

8 hours ago, Pointytoes said:

This I believe is a rather odd statement since many Elmhurst students turn up at auditions year on year from their lower school trying to gain a place at WhiteLodge. There are parents who have seen Elmhurst as the second best place after not gaining a place for year seven at WhiteLodge. These outweigh the parents who see Elmhurst as the ‘ preferred option’. 
Both schools have a very different approach, the success rate from both is debatable on many levels. 
The vocational route is not for the faint hearted and ballet training in this country brings many debates to the fore. 
These two schools are not really comparable on many levels. 

I think the RBS name certainly counts for a lot when it comes to vocational school applications, and most people without a background in dance training have heard of RBS. However, the ‘preferred option’ should vary depending on the child. Not all children will thrive at White Lodge, and not all children will be happy at Elmhurst either.

Looking purely at statistics, a child starting in Year 7 and going all the way through RBS has a much better chance of securing a contract with RB. But a child starting in Elmhurst in Year 7 has a much better chance of completing their vocational training.

As a parent, my priority is to see my child thrive: artistically, academically and socially. Resilience is needed in spades at any vocational school, as the process is demanding in every way, but I would hope to find a school where she feels valued and challenged.

7 hours ago, akh said:

And my point was that I am not sure it's value for money wherever and what ever you study for such a small number of contact hours (pre virus restrictions) Just my view.

The subjects with low contact hours tend to require lots of reading and forming opinions and theories, to then discuss and develop during tutorials and underpin with learning from lectures. So the ‘value’ is in the feedback and response to what is produced from the hours of independent work. The hours spent working shouldn’t be any less, just more independent and reflective. No arts student worth their salt would want to be spoon-fed the course.

11 minutes ago, Peony said:

Grishko also do a ‘light’ shoe called novice for beginners.  I think Anna is right, aim to book as many of the big shops (dancia, Bloch, freed, capezio)  as possible on the one day as I think you’ll be pretty limited in each because of the size. 

Also, build in coffee shop breaks to rest feet as you walk between the shops. Otherwise feet can swell and you wind up in a wider shoe than your DD actually needs!

4 hours ago, Sally-Anne said:

Thanks, we are in London

Dancia in Covent Garden have a wide range. And as your DD gets older she may prefer to go straight to Freed or Bloch if she is in either of those, as the individual shops carry even more options within their brand.

1 hour ago, PurplePirouette said:

Yes, although they usually give themselves longer than it takes, for example they say for the “real life” auditions that you can expect to hear by the end of June/early July but last year all of the results had been received by 21st June and some as early as 9th I think it was. London will be the largest individual location, although I’d have thought all of year 6 would have been more? I think the hardest part is that there will be so many strong candidates for London that they may want to offer the second choice centre to, but without having seen the other groups they won’t get know what the standard is across the board so it would be difficult to do that until having seen all of the groups. Perhaps we will still be sitting here waiting in November🤣

If they move you to a different centre it seems to be done via SWL, then a phonecall coming through very quickly (days later) offering the alternative centre. Good luck everyone!

2 hours ago, DancemumLouise said:

Thank you for your advice. We are Oxford or Swindon area, I could get her to either. 
She is now starting G2, she was 9 last week. I think I might ask her teacher if she can join additional grade classes just to help her improve not jump grades. 

Associate-wise, I know a Swindon based family that travel to Birmingham for associates (Royal Ballet School JA and Elmhurst Young Dancer) and Richmond for Ballet Boost, so I assume both must be doable. There is so much on offer. A good associate scheme is definitely worth a bit of a journey... we used to do 1.5 hours each way for JAs and have never regretted it.

1 minute ago, DancemumLouise said:

S

Her teacher does split her classes into two, one on a Friday which is half an hour and then one Saturday morning which is 45 minutes, my daughter does the one on a Friday, maybe I will see if she can attend both, that will keep her at one studio but increase her time to 1 hour 15. There is no PBT. This other studio does not do grades, she is all about experience but she also think my daughter is good enough to join their competition team, she will be the second youngest, but I know her current teacher will be annoyed at her doing competitions with another studio, which I understand. 
I’m in two minds about the whole thing and can’t make a decision 😩

I would be wary of a school that offers ballet but doesn’t do graded examinations, as there is a high chance their teachers are not qualified by any exam board. Unqualified teachers have no requirement for teacher training, no need to keep up any professional development and far less accountability. Unsafe practices can cause lasting damage, especially to growing bodies. That’s not to say the teachers at the other school that you are looking at are unqualified, but it’s definitely something to check out.

If you talk to your DD’s current teacher, she may be able to double up on grades in order to increase her training. PBT is fantastic, but if this is not available Pilates is also really good. Quality is definitely more important than quantity.

Associate schemes are another excellent way to supplement training. If you give a rough idea of where you are, people in here may be able to recommend a scheme.

Looking at it from a purely financial point of view, Elmhurst and RBS have the highest proportion of MDS places, so not auditioning could be seen as a false economy. It would be heartbreaking to be offered a place without funding elsewhere and wonder if she might have got in.

Keeping it all in perspective though, if you do miss a school out in the Year 7 auditions round, you can always change your mind later. There are lots of additions to each cohort over the years.

Don’t rule anything out based on previous auditions. Children progress at such a rate, and so much can change in the space of a year. If Elmhurst is a school you like, it’s definitely worth a try, as otherwise you will be left wondering. There have been new starters in DD’s year that weren’t successful at their first attempt. People are absolutely right when they say it’s a ‘not yet’ rather than a ‘no’.

51 minutes ago, Bookish said:

Hi, I’m new to the forum. My daughter has been offered a year 4 place, with a view to move into year 5 after a term if she catches up, following a phone discussion with Miss Whiteman. (She is year 5 age). I believe there may be others with the same offer? 
 As this meant our offer was slightly later than others, we only had the email with all the registration forms, uniform list etc late Wednesday night, so I ordered her kit yesterday, but it’s almost all out of stock. Has everyone else found this too? I’m a bit worried her leotard won’t have arrived by the 12th. Thanks

Congratulations and welcome to the forum!

The Elmhurst suppliers are having trouble with uniform due to a backlog at the factory caused by the lockdown, with lots of full-time students on back order too. The school are being very understanding in the meantime. I think the associate uniform is the same as previous years though, so you might be able to pick up a second-hand one on the buying/selling page to do you for now.

40 minutes ago, Firebird21 said:

https://naturalhairqueen.net/gorilla-snot-gel-natural-hair/

this is an interesting article about the snot gel (sorry I had to say that!)

it’s not a natural product, but then we only need it for exams and auditions 

Just for exams and auditions is definitely less of a problem. DD is at vocational school, so has a bun pretty much all day every day (although the school encourages the girls to take their bun out for academic lessons to rest their hair).

Gorilla Snot has a bit of a reputation for damaging hair, according to my Mauritian students, as it contains a lot of chemicals... mind you, a similar gel is Eco Style, and that contains a well-known carcinogen. It seems that the more I look into it, the less I know what DD should put on her hair!

1 hour ago, glowlight said:

It's probably worth mentioning that not all the places at those schools are funded.  I think all RBS places are funded, but not all places at the other 3 (correct me if I'm wrong folks - I may be out of date).  So you have to be aware that even if offered a place you may not be offered funding.  This is sometimes the most heartbreaking position to be in!  

I think everyone that is eligible for MDS has funding at Elmhurst too. The other schools offer bursaries and partial fees remission for some children that are not awarded MDS, so it’s a good idea to go in with an idea of exactly what you could afford. Even MDS is a sliding scale, with the parental contributions based on earnings. The MDS calculator on the RBS website gives a really good idea of what this would cost at any of the MDS schools, but don’t forget there will be extras such as school trips that will account for an extra £100-200 per term depending on the school. 

Hi, which shade of pink is this, please?

7 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

I don't know what year your dd is in, but I'm glad to hear that there have been no issues.

 

My dd left upper school training only 3 years ago, so I don't think there could have been a complete about-turn in that short a time.

 

Of the 20 or so friends and other people we personally knew who started upper school training (and at various schools) either the same year as my dd or a year or two either side, almost all of them (including my dd) suffered from either emotional/mental health difficulties, eating disorders or a career-ending injury in one way or another during their training. Very few of them got the support they needed at this critical time. The families of at least two that I know of had to resort to legal action.

 

With the greatest respect, and although I know (as you say) that many parents will be nervous about sending their youngsters off in a few weeks' time, that should not be a reason for others to keep quiet about their negative experiences. I'm afraid to say that there have been too many occasions in the past of things being swept under the carpet or hushed up. Too many people in the past have been afraid to speak up lest their child's funding is taken away, or they are assessed out or marked as a troublemaker. Very few people are prepared to stick their head above the parapet for those reasons. The ones who do, tend to wait until it is all over, or their now young adult dc decides to share their experience themselves.

I do agree that it is important to speak up, and I am sorry to hear that your DD’s experience has not been a good one. I hope she is now accessing the help that she needs, and her friends too.

I also think it is important, in the interests of balance and clarity, to say that this is not the case for everyone, and that some schools are really nurturing the children and many children are thriving at vocational school. To say this is not to deny or excuse any poor treatment that has happened in other institutions or to other children. Ongoing, frank conversation is essential with all our children, and even more so when we are entrusting them to a school that may be far from home.

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

This is not in relation to any specific training establishment. 

 

It seems to me that vocational schools all take it upon themselves to put as much psychological pressure on their students as they possibly can, so that they 'weed out' all those who are not mentally resilient enough to survive the rigours of a professional dance career. They keep being told that 'it's tough out there' and how pressured it is, the constant rejections and negativity and how tough they have to be.

 

What other industry would treat its employees like that? The unions would have a fit. What other industry would put its trainees through both physical and mental torture, so that only the strongest survive and the rest are cast by the wayside? This is particularly appalling when you consider that these trainees are children.

 

 

While this may be the experience for some, it is really not our experience or that of any of DD’s classmates as far as I know. We have found her school to be very nurturing, and an environment where she and her friends are thriving. Perhaps things have really changed for the better in recent years, but I felt that with so many parents nervous about sending their child off for the first time in a matter of weeks I wanted to reassure them that our experience so far has been wholly positive, and this certainly seems to be the case for DD’s friends too.

30 minutes ago, SissonneDoublee said:

block

Bloch... silly autocorrect!

Black jazz pants size 2a long £5 (+ postage)

Florescent pink block booties size child L (£10 + postage)

Both in very good condition.