aileen

Swe, I completely agree with you. In general, we Brits are appalling at languages and this limits our opportunities.

Bruce, the reason that this discussion is limited to British students is that, whilst there have been large numbers of overseas students training in the UK for some time now, as far as I am aware very few British students have done their training abroad and I, for one, am interested in finding out how that small band of students has fared/ is faring. As most people seem to agree, ballet schools, particularly in the UK, are international institutions today and in a very competitive world (and in the face of cuts in funding) I believe that British ballet students will go abroad to train in increasing numbers. I can assure you that there's no xenophobia here. I would be very interested to hear from parents of overseas ballet students who are training here as well.

Meadowblythe, when we think of ballet students training abroad we initially think of Russia and then perhaps of America but of course there are plenty of other countries with schools which provide very good training. I'm particularly thinking of countries in the EU because, presumably, there are no visa requirements and all EU nationals pay the same fees as the home students. In the wake of the increase in tuition fees for academic university courses in the UK I have heard that more students are considering studying in Europe because the fees are lower. As funding for ballet training is cut perhaps ballet students will increasingly go to Europe for their training.

Moneypenny, don't get downhearted. Just concentrate on the here and now and allow yourself to enjoy with your dd the journey so far (I sound like a judge from The X Factor!). You don't know how things will turn out but if your dd doesn't try she will always regret it.

And these four (one of whom is your dd) are actually training at the School rather than working at the Company? In addition to Xander Parrish (does your dd ever come across him?) David Hallberg is of course now at the Bolshoi and so there are a few Westerners in and around the Company. As you say, times are changing. As a sub-topic, it would also be interesting to hear from anyone whose dc is training or has trained at a UK school whose methods and training are rooted in or linked to those of schools abroad (I'm expressing this clumsily but I can't think of any other way of putting it).

Well, any worries about Ksenia taking on such a big role (I didn't have any) were banished at her debut last night. She excelled as The Firebird and her costume (very different) was wonderful. The whole programme was thrilling and the new Rite costumes were stunning.

Primrose and plie, it's really interesting to hear about your daughters. I take my hat off to both of them; what guts and determination they must have. Plie, why do you think your dd prefers the Harid Conservatory to her previous vocational school? Primrose, are there any other British students training with the Bolshoi Ballet School? Wasn't there a young man who went to train with the School and was featured in a television programme? Perhaps I am thinking of Xander Parrish but didn't he go from the RB corps? I remember reading about a British girl who is currently training at Perm.

I was aware that your daughter was training in Russia, Primrose, but I thought that it was for you to mention it rather than me. What age was she when she went? Why did she decide to go there?

I hope that this topic will not overlap too much with previous topics, but I would be very interested to hear about the experiences of British ballet students training abroad. I think that it takes real guts to do this as there must be so many "lows" in training for a career in ballet. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone whose child has studied or is studying abroad. How hard was it to get into the school? Did s/he get funding and, if so, from where? How did the training compare with training in the UK and did s/he enjoy the "lifestyle" at the school? Finally, did s/he find a ballet job on graduation and, if so, where? Did s/he return to the UK?

Rowan, so am I correct in understanding that Melissa Hamilton never attended vocational school other than Elmhurst for a brief period? And I don't think that she had done a huge amount of ballet before she went to Elmhurst either.

With reference to my earlier post, has anyone ever heard of a dancer who has been accepted by a ballet company without having gone to a vocational school even for a year or two? There are dancers who have got into companies via unconventional routes. Did Melissa Hamilton, for example, go to RBS or RB after her private coaching in Athens? There is a very young American dancer in the RB called Patricia Zhao. I read that, amazingly, she only started ballet at 13 and got into RB at 17! Does anyone know what she did for those four years?

Glowlight, it's unfortunate IMO that the company and the school have the same name. I'm sure that most people would assume that there's at least some connection between the two but from what you say there's even less of a connection between them than there is between RBS and RB. Where do their graduates go?

Glowlight, it's unfortunate IMO that the company and the school have the same name. I'm sure that most people would assume that there's at least some connection between the two but from what you say there's even less of a connection between them than there is between RBS and RB. Where do their graduates go?

I think that the description of RBS as "The School for The Royal Ballet and Birmingham Royal Ballet" strongly implies that the School feeds into those two companies. Where does that leave Elmhurst? IMO, if RBS does not "feed" into those companies then it should have another name, and the same applies to ENBS and possibly Northern Ballet School (I don't know anything about that school; maybe a lot of their graduates get into Northern Ballet). The reality is that most if not all of these school are really international schools which happen to be based in the UK. There seems to be little sense of them have a mission to supply the UK companies with the next generation of dancers. I appreciate that some British born graduates go abroad to dance but I rather suspect that in most cases this is out of necessity rather than choice and very often on short term contracts. It would be good to hear from assemble mum on this. I agree with rowan about children going to see live ballet. I'm often surprised at how uninterested in this the mothers at my daughter's ballet school are. Both ENB and BRB offer extremely good deals in London. You can sit in the front row of the balcony at the Coliseum for £10. BRB offer very generous family packages as well. When you think how easy it is to fritter money away on nothing very much ballet, even in London, can be a real bargain. The cinema costs almost as much. For some reason there seems to be a real disconnect between doing and watching ballet.

Irmgard, it's great to have someone close to ENB (and clearly a big fan!) on the site. I can't wait for tonight! I need to book for the matinee on the 31st. Come on everyone, let's all support ENB. Forget about Alice and book for some grown-up ballets!

Tomuchtallent, as I understand it, the majority of ballet schools in the UK follow a syllabus set down either by The Royal Academy of Dance (RAD) or by The Imperial Society of Teachers of Dance (ISTD). Cechetti comes under the umbrella of the ISTD. The graded exams are designed for students who are doing ballet as a hobby whereas the vocational ones (which are more demanding and require much better technique) are aimed at students who are considering a career in ballet, but many students who are not planning to become dancers do these exams anyway for the challenge. At my daughter's ballet school you have to be invited to join a vocational class but I don't know if this is a common practice. Pointe work is not included in the RAD graded exams (even at the higher grades) but some pointe work is included in even the lowest of the vocational exams. The exams on their own don't really seem to mean anything. The reality seems to be that if you want to pursue a career in ballet you have to attend a vocational school or at least an associate programme attached to a school. I assume that most teachers have a teaching qualification from one of the two boards. If anything I have said above is inaccurate I hope that someone will correct me.

Assemble mum, congratulations to your son! I'd love to know who he is but I don't expect you to tell me! You give a real insight into the life of a professional ballet dancer. The expression "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. Do you think that British dancers are a bit reluctant to work abroad (in non English speaking countries) because of the famous British resistance to learning foreign languages?! I ask this because I recently read about a dancer who had worked abroad but had given up dancing and was now back in the UK working in a bar having found the language barrier and the isolation impossible to overcome. I wonder whether the schools really prepare their students for the reality of life after graduation and, in particular, for the likelihood that they will not be taken on by the company to which the school is affiliated (if any) and the possibility that they will have to go abroad to find work. Afab, it's interesting to hear what you say about the make-up of POB. I'm sure that that must be the result of some kind of policy or preference rather than just coincidence. I think that it is at least partly down to the funding arrangements at the Opera School ie you have to be a French national to be funded or possibly even admitted to the School.

It's really impressive how NB and BRB create so many new full-length ballets. I wish that ENB would create a new ballet. I think that their last new full-length ballet was The Snow Queen, which I recollect had rather mixed reviews but perhaps that was just the critics. I hope that the new AD will commission or create something new for the company.

Wow, Programme 2 is stuffed with principal dancers! I'm definitely going to book for a second performance. I want to see Vadim as Apollo.

I'd like to see Konvalina as I've never seen him, and of course my favourite, Vadim, who I hope will be dancing with Daria. I was surprised and delighted to see D and V dance an excerpt from Apollo at the Tate last month.

Thanks, Janet. NB's approach sounds interesting.

Thequays, full-time ballet school at the age of 6 is a radical idea (even if it was non-residential). Can you really tell if a child has the potential to become a professional dancer at such a young age? And, even if you can, would it be ethical to put a child into such an environment when s/he is so young? Having said that, I know that children from as young as 8 do hours of gymnastics every week, but they are still at mainstream schools. I don't know what the answer is. It would be fascinating to find out from Lauren Cuthbertson, who is the only current female British principal at the RB, why she thought that she made it when so many of her peers did not.

Ninag, I don't think that anyone is advocating children becoming professional dancers in the UK but I take your point. Amum/Cathy, I wonder whether British born dancers ever actually catch up. Presumably, when they are reaching their 10,000 hours the foreign born dancers are notching up 12,000 hours or whatever. I imagine that when the students enter the companies those who have put in the most practice are generally the strongest technically and they are the ones who start getting the solos and then the promotions whilst the others languish in the Corps and become disheartened. And if you are not strong technically it is harder to feel confident and your acting suffers which in turn leads to ADs discounting you and choosing other dancers for roles. It's a vicious circle.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Ksenia in The Firebird. Although Yonah Acosta was great in the Emerging Dancer Awards IMO Ksenia should have won. Irmgard, who is doing Apollo apart from Vadim? I've got tickets for the 22nd and the 30th and will probably book for a second Programme 2 cast once the casting is up.

Amum/Cathy, it's interesting to hear Deborah Bull's opinion. How did she manage to put in the 10,000 hours of practice?