Kerfuffle

The good thing is though that you don’t have to pay it back unlike a uni loans. I feel grateful it exists - it’s  much harder for the international students. 

37 minutes ago, ThatDancingGirl said:

@Kerfuffle I just meant in general wondering how the international students manage as they don't do A levels so if they were finishing off the high school or equivelant or if doing the diploma. I see what you mean for ENBS and don't really think A levels on top of that would be a good idea. Don't even know if she'll get into these upper schools but just trying to wrap my head around what all the various pathways could be. 

It is a lot to get your head around, we discussed all options and it’s the best thing to do ! My DD hasn’t mentioned that any of her international friends are doing online  studies. An American girl we met in the summer on an intensive said that she did online studies alongside her course at European Ballet School but I think maybe because she was only 15 and there wasn’t a formal qualification offered they allowed for that. I think in USA the students have time to do online studies as well as ballet training, maybe shorter hours. Perhaps the other Europeans recognise the diploma with degree option as being enough for them. I guess that if you’re moving countries to train you are probably more focused on your ballet education! 

1 hour ago, expatballetmom said:

Not being from UK but currently living in the UK, I have another question which I hope isn't too confusing- could you possibly not do the Trinity Diploma for example, and just do A levels or an Intl Baccalaureate or a U.S. online school or is that not possible?

Do you mean in general or at ENBS specifically ? I’m not sure how you’d avoid doing the diploma - the  academics   and dancing are what the diploma course fundamentally is. 

https://www.trinitycollege.com/qualifications/PPAD/level-6-dance

Doing A levels on the side could be possible but would be hard to fit in, their days at ballet school are very busy and long. The international students are also doing the diploma I think. 

I guess it’s all swings and roundabouts! My thinking is you have your whole life to study academics but there is only a brief window where you can train to be a dancer, it’s like being an athlete. 

Better to have realistic goals & also really question long term motivation. If ultimately a university degree in an academic subject is desired I think better to either park the full time dance til after A levels or park the A levels & Uni entry until after dance career…. Lots of dancers join premier uni courses (with it without usual A levels but with added life skills/experience helping to get them on courses & sponsors often too!) 
Studying for 3 A levels in mainstream school can lead to huge pressures & issues…

My opinion too. A levels are demanding enough just on their own, a huge step up from GCSEs. If for whatever reason my DD’s career doesn’t materialise she will still be very young at the end of her course, barely older than her contemporaries finishing A Levels - she can catch up. If she is successful she can do as Peanut says above. Vocational training is very intense, involving long days of study, a lot of mental energy is involved in concentrating on refining those skills in ballet let alone the classroom.

I think my DD might  like to become a theatre critic with an MA following her BA - I think you can use your dance degree in lots of interesting ways! There are so many creative jobs to consider. But right now she’s focusing on her ballet training. 

As you know the Dada is worked out on a sliding scale and I imagine that the calculation is the same from school to school. There are bursaries as well at ENBS according to their website - you could ask them.

They are probably the same few hundreds in all the applications in U.K., plus varying amounts of internationals based on the reputation of each school abroad/those that auditioned in their own countries. A proportion of places are also given at YAGP /Prix de Lausanne to such schools that have an affiliation. 

Good question! I think that logically the diploma/degree is a higher level if qualification (level 5 or 6) than A Levels (level 3). I am only guessing here but usually if you already have a degree you would be looking at a post graduate qualification (MA for example). My daughter would have chosen art and English (and probably history) too. I think if you wanted to study history of theatre at MA level or something related there would probably be no need for A Levels - you would have proved yourself of being capable to write already. If you were educated here and have a good set of GCSEs that would back you up too. I have even heard of someone who went to Cambridge to study English literature after finishing at Royal Ballet upper school and her dancing record helped her get in ! If you decide to retrain in medical areas and computer science you also are able to get student loans for degrees. Hope that helps ! 
 

Hi ! It’s very early days for us (3rd week!) and Spidey can tell you much more about ENBS but I would like to add that my DD is really enjoying how her history of dance academic study is relating to seeing ENB performances (they are going tomorrow). My DD thought long and hard about A Levels and we came to the conclusion that it would be better to do the diploma which fully related to her dancing rather than struggle to fit in A levels around dancing. She is someone who has always studied hard and enjoyed school so it wasn’t an easy decision. To get into a top uni you tend to need 3 rather than 2 which most upper schools offer as so much time is spent dancing. Like Spidey says the days are very full at ENBS and my DD finds by the time she’s cooked tea and done laundry she’s ready for bed! I think if you wanted to be a doctor where you needed specific a levels then that is probably the situation where a levels matter the most as they have to be sciences. Otherwise I think with the degree finished her plan b would probably be arts related if not ballet, probably enabled by post grad study.

Such an excellent article exploring the causes and reasons for the problems faced by young dancers. 

37 minutes ago, WhereToNow said:

Thanks.  I’ve been doing my research for some years and there are options cheaper than ENBS, no one is looking for free (although that would be very handy!)

 

ENBS is one of the most expensive for training, mainly because it doesn’t seem to have the same funding options as the others, of the same cost.

 

There are also schools where the training comes in under the £10k mark.  Pricey accommodation becomes less of a challenge.

 

Based on the information on the ENBS website, I’m guessing that scholarships & bursaries are saved for those who stand out at auditions.  Rather than those who would struggle financially, which is the case in some of the other schools.

 

It’s just not that obvious to me from their website, and they didn’t reply to my enquiry last year.

 

I guess we will find out if she is successful!

I guess the places offering degrees are probably the cheapest because it’s more like regular unis with a student loans. ENBS has the Dada which as far as I know the other most common form of funding, which can include help with maintenance too.   A friend of mine  is paying very little over all  fees (around 1.5k a year) because of her family income. Of course London is a very expensive city to live in but if you are able to share a room it costs the same as the average uni halls these days elsewhere.

Most performing arts schools offer scholarships to those students they want to attract the most - bursaries are according to need. I don’t think ENBS is any different to the other schools. 
 

I think there are other home stay options which might be worth investigating because they could be cheaper. I doubt that many of the options end up that much cheaper but maybe someone has made a spread sheet comparing them all? (The only option I can think of that really is cheaper is if you are Scottish and apply for RCS - no fees!) 

I loved it and I’m seeing it again - but I can see it’s not to everyone’s taste which is why it’s great to have a wide repertoire in a company. 

20 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

I'm afraid although I think Watkins will do well, this interview repeated the cliche "real personalities that shine on stage". This has been said by numerous ADs of various companies over the last few decades. Also I think it a shame that in the provinces we are only offered Nutcracker. I don't particularly like that production and won't be buying tickets. However if they dared to tour the triple bill I would have rallied friends and bought several tickets.

I think what’s important is that there is a range of repertoire that also involves the dancers in innovation so they become fully involved in the creative process. I think it’s great that ENB perform both the classical and Akram Khan versions of Giselle. I am seeing Akram Khan in Bristol perhaps they are touring with this near you? 

I think in the first year the ballet class is at 8:45 and the last class will be over at 6pm. There are several kids who commute an hour or so to get there each way. It’s a jam packed schedule  after the first couple of weeks. 

Unfortunately I think £230 a week is pretty  cheap for central London and Chelsea is a particularly nice location. You might find that you get something towards maintenance - I think that is separate. Ballet training is expensive everywhere but the plus side is the training is great and being at ENBS you are connected to the industry - they regularly see ENB performances and it’s all related to their academics. I would see where your DC gets in and then look at the finances rather than limiting her options.

Hi Lightfoot Halls are off the Kings Rd in Chelsea so are pretty pricey - the cheapest option is sharing a room at £235 but there are single rooms which go up to about £450 with some options inbetween. My DD’s room has a shower and a kitchen. The main problem is getting a room because by the time you find out you have a place at the school there aren’t many rooms to choose from because they are already booked for the following year. There seem to be other options but Lightfoot is great because it’s so close and feels very safe. There are large kitchens you can use as well. 

I would be also concerned that naturally petite dancers are given a hard time about their weight - if they are healthy in their mind and body that should be acceptable too. 

2 hours ago, SpideyDad said:

Thanks @Kerfuffle - I hope DD is enjoying it: if I remember correctly, the early weeks are intense!

Hi Spidey! DD is settling in fine. I’m amazed how quickly they adapt! It is intense, you’re right but all good so far ! 
 

@WhereToNow The halls are great, very clean and the people at reception are friendly and helpful. Chelsea is very safe and as Spidey says, it’s fascinating to see how the other half live - reality TV stars frequently spotted ! 🤣

1 hour ago, SpideyDad said:

Hi @WhereToNow,

There are a few ENBS parents on here: is there anything specific that you need to know?

Yes, ask SpideyDad! I am an ENBS parent but DD has just started.

9 hours ago, capybara said:

 

I do so agree with this. I don't think that I'm alone in having seen established artists in more than one Company treated by repetiteurs/teachers as if they were inexperienced students. Completely unacceptable and disrespectful at a personal level - the more so since, at worst, it can amount to artistic repression.

 

However, there are promising signs that a 'new generation' of coaches is more focused on helping dancers to evolve their own interpretations. Of course, the choreography needs to be delivered 'correctly' but why any Principal or Soloist should be expected to put up with (surely outdated) authoritarian approaches to developing a role is beyond my understanding.

 

I think it’s really the amount of information that a dancer has to hold in their minds when learning a role which means professionals are reminded of certain technical elements. I don’t think that it’s meant to be patronising. My son is training as a classical singer (opera) and in this area singers have one to one teachers throughout their careers as well as in rehearsal. It’s just part of the process and doesn’t need to be belittling. 

Opera singers reach their peak much later than dancers (in 40s) and I’d prefer to hear a really good mature singer than one who isn’t ready for the role. 

For those in the south west I recommend Bristol Russian Ballet School and their Youth Ballet at weekends, plus intensives at Easter and Summer. This was where my DD trained for 2 years. 

31 minutes ago, Balletchick said:

I am also struggling with this, although we have a little more time on our hands. DD is, on paper, a reasonable prospect. Good turnout. Very flexible. Nice feet. Good musicality. Skinny as a rake. But I don't know what she'll be like in 5 years time! She wants to dance. She's (at the moment) not sure about going away to school. I'd like to keep her home until 16 at least. We have a decent dance school and are close to intensives and associates schemes (geographically). My question is - are these as toxic? Is auditioning for RBS JAs, or Northern CAT likely to expose her to the same sort of toxicity? It would be mitigated by her being at home, and at her normal school, but I'd still rather have my eyes open. What about summer schools? If I send her away to RBS or Elmhurst for summer school, will she be exposed to harm? What about the programmes like Northern, Moorlands, etc?

I think follow your instincts and try out the associates/CAT schemes. You can always give them up if they don’t work for your child, much easier than removing them from boarding school. All these experiences will give your child a chance to see what works for her, who she clicks with. This is what we have found - my DD has just started upper school after being at a regular school.