Kerfuffle

This is weird. Is RBS so badly supported by our own government that they need to get overseas sponsors and by doing this create a bias in selection towards one particular nation? Or is it a physical/aesthetic/work ethic thing ?

Thanks. It’s always so hard to get hold of these numbers!

Can anyone tell me how big the year groups are at Hamburg and if many 16 year olds join?

I wrote to them to ask and they told me that if you go for 3 months you then can’t return for 3 months so basically it’s impossible to study there properly. I didn’t get the impression that any attempt had been made to resolve this situation either! I guess they have enough prospective students from other places. Sorry just read the message above, 90 days is the correct amount of time quoted!

Ah That might explain it. It’s a post Brexit problem facing U.K. students only apparently !

European School of Ballet can’t accept British students for longer than 3 months so unless you have a EU passport there is no point in applying. I found this out very recently for my year 11 DD.

So do you think that through Nureyev Paris was influenced by the British style? That is a very interesting thought. Did you like his input ?

Recently there were a few dancers who did a short term visit at WL who were on Instagram , one of which came first at YAGP in Paris who is American. I guess these are the ones who might already have been offered places?

It’s definitely another option and ballet is international after all! The majority of these dancers are seasoned YAGP competitors so are used to this format. I think some of the training is very intense and I would suppose that the same is going on in Brazil/Mexico as well as Korea and Japan - the RBS runs intensives in these countries so there must be a lot of interest. I guess what is hard if you’re a parent here is that this is not easily accessible in this country but I have to agree that it’s great to be able to see what’s out there. I don’t know about recruiting for RB beyond Aub Jenson, I think you have to be invited to audition so this probably is a good way of being spotted.

I agree with you, it is a shame if it gets reduced to just a sport that is quantifiable with a score. I guess that the opportunity to join schools in the graduating year at places such as RBS might be a reason for continuing with being in these competitions up to 18 and I suppose this is also why the ADs are still watching this age group.It’s like private schools taking on kids on grade 8 violin etc and then passing the training off as their own with impressive school orchestras and concerts when the hard work was mostly down to a previous teacher. There is something satisfying in working on solos individually for students even if they aren’t mastered in the way a principal at a company might perform it. It’s a chance to explore some of the best choreography to the best music at a young age which is a great opportunity, even if they never actually get that role professionally.

I think finding teachers able to teach to that standard is generally difficult, plus in this country we have an exam taking culture based on syllabuses that demand a lot of time - RAD, ISTD etc. Vocational lower schools generally don’t train the individual student to do variations, so we have a huge gap in comparison to over nations. There are a few independents at YAGP from U.K. or those studying intensely with certain private teachers one to one but we are quite rare on the competition circuit! I think it’s hard to be taken seriously abroad and I wonder what further harm Brexit has done. It’s a bit like being a British act in Eurovision until last year!

All excellent points @SplitSoul although I’d expect it’s a pretty rare state school these days that can afford free one to one lessons. The nearest we got was learning the recorder and small groups charged less for violin but never one to one. Music training is very expensive and conservatoires have lower proportions of state school kids enrolled than Oxbridge. I think there is also a bit of snobbery involved in music being taken more seriously than ballet. Maybe it’s different in Russia where they see it as central to their culture, a bit like Italians and opera, and there is a broader reach in the population? Your gender bias comment is sadly probably true. So much money is invested in sport too probably because of male support.

Absolutely true that there are great opportunities like being a chorister, although most cathedrals are attached to private schools so there are hidden costs if the cathedral/school can’t offer a full scholarship. Not many state schools have orchestras at a high level unfortunately, we are lucky ours is great but it’s unusual in our area. We have been advised to look for further funding to assist with the financial side of conservatoire training - I haven’t come across parents doing the same for their dancing children - is this because fewer charities want to support dancers?

A lot of these dancers are 18 so I think a bit old to be trying to get into upper schools. I imagine that their schools are teaching at a pretty high standard anyway - I bet they are mostly doing full time schedules. Going to a top school attached to a top company doesn’t guarantee you a job, those students still have to audition along with anyone else.

I think everyone who applies gets the preliminary audition so there would be a large amount of dancers trying for senior associates and some of those (year 10) for WL. If there was that number at their finals that would be shocking !

@LusodancerHow wonderful that your musician and dancer are getting to work together! My daughter has danced with professional ensembles before but never combined with my son yet, who is a singer. I think these moments are extremely special! My daughter also plays the bassoon but only for fun as the ballet hours are so demanding she can’t get enough practice time. Her teacher has found a lot of gorgeous music for her, often ballet related. It’s sad your grandfather never heard or saw them continue his legacy but it’s lovely to know it lives on in them. @SplitSoulThe expense of training is considerable for both - the singer might take 7 years to get there and he’s just at the beginning even though he’s older. Both fields are hugely competitive!

Lovely to see there are other parents with musical kids here! The ballet world seems particularly challenging but I think it’s pretty competitive and stressful in music too especially classical instruments such as violin which also has a huge amount of child prodigies starting at the age of 3! What I do love about music from my son’s experience is how once you get beyond the pain barrier of practice and acquire enough skills to just play with others it’s truly joyful. Just getting to that point takes tremendous effort !

Sadly looks like it becomes a competition between these schools to get the pupils, what’s happening to their own they are training? Must be damaging to their self esteem

Yes it is - and good for your son keeping going at vocational but also having other ideas! Maybe things open up a bit beyond lower schools, as I know several RBS/ENBS success stories with home grown pupils?

Some countries have such a strong tradition of ballet that they don’t change hugely who they choose or how they teach, this is very true of Russia and France. You’re right that both those nations are very exacting in their intake - they know the bodies that will respond to the training and look right according to their aesthetic. French and Russian ballerinas look alike but their styles of dancing are quite different I think - they have a different emphasis in their classes. I thought Nureyev would have made POB more like Vaganova but my daughter recently did YAGP Paris classes there and it was still very French fast footwork, I think this might be a Western European approach?

I guess they probably have seen a lot of potential UK talent already at year 6, so a girl would need to have access to some very good teaching locally - that’s hard to come by when the international competition is already doing full variations on pointe aged 12 -14 possibly taking 25 hours Ballet classes a week. It’s not impossible but fairly rare here.

Getting a good amount of training hours is very difficult in the U.K. if not at vocational school particularly outside London. There are associate classes at weekends and a few CAT schemes but not many and it’s still hard to make up the hours. The syllabuses at local schools in my opinion are limiting too - rigid with the same exercises to the same music repeated in every class. Over 14 it’s a struggle to get high level training for most as typically there are only a couple of girls good enough in each school and they are spread out even in a big city and those schools like to keep their best pupils. My daughter is at a very unusual school that trains in a completely different way and she is extremely lucky because she can still live at home and get amazing training. I think your description of training continental Europe is pretty similar to here, the gap between vocational and non vocational is noticeable . USA seems to offer more opportunities post 14 although I have heard it’s extremely expensive.

Not all professional dancers have flat turn out. Teachers often talk about « healthy turn out » which is making sure your knees are over your toes. Turn out is pretty much set at birth but using it to its full potential takes years to master. Sounds like your daughter has plenty of range and in the end selection is a trade off of a whole load of physical and mental attributes, including musicality. Not many people have everything !

Personally I think it’s really hard to stand out in videos and the expenses mount up quickly when the dance schools all want different things, it’s a considerable hidden cost that might be beyond a lot of people 😢 . I think initial screening is ok though as it stops people wasting money if they really aren’t in with a chance.

Yes, I think that’s possible - and there is bound to be a big crossover between PdL and YAGP dancers who are used to the whole scene. It’s pretty intimidating going for it the first time !