balletbean

On 14/08/2023 at 11:17, balletfanatic said:

I do think examiners should at least smile for all candidates though, put them at ease. It just felt at the time she had no awareness of how much courage it takes for adults to do an exam 

A smile would certainly go a long way, however, not receiving an encouraging smile is one thing but when the examiner spends more time looking out of the window than actually looking at the candidate you do begin to wonder whether you should be there at all!

38 minutes ago, BalletGirlAndBoy said:

I have a question (which I hope is not a silly one!) about summer intensives. My DD is 10 and has attended two summer intensives this year - one as a day student for 3 days and the other for 5 days residential. While doing these, she has met a lot of children her age or slightly older (11/ 12) who have spent their whole summers going from one residential to another. Some students have come from abroad and have done a tour of European intensives. Others are based in the UK and have gone to at least four, going from one to another and just popping home to wash leotards. Does anyone have any insight into whether this is 'normal' and standard practice for those wishing to dance at a high level? How do people afford it?! Don't they need a rest? This is not intended to be judgemental in any way, I'm just curious as a parent of a DD who is starting to get more serious about her ballet but certainly won't be going to vocational school for year 7. I'm concerned that there will be a big gap created between what my DD can do and what others her age are achieving given this high volume of training. 

 

Any thoughts welcome! 

Hi, there is never a silly question, happy to offer a response from my experience.
 I don’t think there is hard and fast rule on summer intensives or even any research competed on the outcome of children that attend back to back courses every summer and their success professionally further down the line. My DD attended her first 5 day course the summer she turned 14 (July birthday). Second two courses were the following summer, when she had just turned 15, we applied to two well known schools never thinking she would be offered both. When the offers were received fortunately the dates didn’t clash. Two weeks first then one week off then another week, that summer led nicely into the autumn that she was auditioning for a full time place. In answer to your question about costs, goodness knows, we were fortunate that the local arts trust provided sponsorship for my DD to attend the summer courses.  Something I would recommend anyone to research in their respective areas especially when they are on the cusp of seeking full time vocational training. 

Whilst the summer intensives are obviously a great way to boost and enhance the child’s training I do believe that they are still no substitute for regular sustained training the rest of the academic yr.  

Good Luck and as I always say, by all means ask those not so silly questions, listen to others but at the end of the day be true to yourself, make those decisions (sometimes easy sometimes hard one) that are best for you, your DD and your family as a whole.  

12 hours ago, MrsMoo2 said:

DS at that age was just starting to take it more seriously he did one syllabus class, one advanced ballet class, acro, tap, and PBT, so about 5 hours in total then he had homework with things like basic anatomy, foot strengthening exercises, and stretching most days. It does depend where you are, we are lucky as all DS classes apart from associates were in the same place. I had a loyalty card for the coffee shop nearby! 🤣🤣🤣

Oh bless.
My DD loved dancing but only began to take it seriously when she was 14 after her first summer school. Lost track of the hours after that as fortunately her ballet school was a short walk from her academic school. I just had to remember what time I had to pick her up every evening. Easier said than done I might add 😂 Home was also about an 8 minute drive away. Less if the traffic lights were in my favour 🤣🤣

Oh. the story’s we could all tell. 😊🙆‍♀️🙆🏻‍♂️

13 hours ago, The red shoes said:

Quality over quantity . If your DD has a great teacher then that should be enough along side her JA class . Please don’t fall

into the trap or under pressure of filling her week with various ballet classes with multiple teachers. I know many children who were accepted into vocational ballet  school just attending JA’s and their once a week

ballet class . 

Absolutely, consistency is also key as no too teachers are the same. Quality over quantity every time. 
 

Having different teachers can be of benefit with an older pupil so they become adjusted to various styles of teaching before heading off to vocational school/college but for yr6 (unsure of grade).

 

Summer Schools is a great way to spread their wings and discover life outside their bubble (regular school/teachers). 
 

On 25/07/2023 at 12:37, JMFCballet said:

Do you think it is important to get professional shots done please?

We didn’t, I’m not sure it’s also that necessary as they can expensive. Try asking around friends & family. 
A friend of ours teaches A level photography so offered her services. A few odd looks from the cleaners at school though as my DD held the poses against the only blank wall in the art Dept, which happened to be the corridor but can’t complain as the photos were great and got where she wanted to be. 
It can be as simple or as complicated as you want to be but realistically the success at the audition is not based on the merit or how much someone paid for their photographs. It’s simply a supporting aid to the whole audition process.  ☺️ 
 

NBS - one audition, generally on a Monday starting mid/late Nov, with multiple dates on offer which continue into the new year after a short break over the Christmas holidays. 
Results announced swiftly.  
Unsure if the process has changed now but previously decisions on a DaDa were done in April without the requirement for actual attendance. 

From personal experience it’s best to choose an earlier audition date as they are before UCAS deadlines.  Which can help, if successful when sourcing accommodation as NBS is surrounded by several large universities.  
 

1 hour ago, SheilaC said:

The government's latest policy is no surprise, although deeply worrying.

In general, their view of what education should be about has, for several years, been narrowly focused on skills hence their emphasis on STEM degrees, rather than broader, more humanistic, degrees which aim to teach students how to think and to learn how to learn. Skills learned on science maths and computing degrees are valuable but those specific skills can be out of date in a few months.

The 'soft' skills learned in the arts can be valuable for life and transferable across many occupations.

So far as degrees in dance, music, drama and other creative arts are concerned they may not typically produce a 'graduate' job or high earnings soon after graduation, but they develop the personal skills that are crucial to the economy. The government wants more enterprise but most STEM courses, with their narrow focus on technical skills and learning the right way to do things counteract, rather than are conducive to, enterprise since that requires creativity and the ability to spot unlikely connections. The creative arts degrees foster communication skills, the ability to work constructively ln a team yet also to work independently in a focused way.

As a university careers adviser for many years I researched the destinations and opportunities for students, specialising in the arts and social sciences and, before retirement, contacted every university that taught degrees in dance for information on what their graduates had gone on to achieve over the years. True, few went on immediately to a high salary, but many had satisfying portfolio careers, combining a range of inter-related opportunities in the arts where they continued to develop their skills and contacts. This may be less possible in the current anti-arts climate. But the qualities and communication skills gained open up a lot of broader opportunities

So eloquently put. 
I know of so many cases where graduates are not employed within the field of their degree. In many cases it is a stepping stone of personal development. A friend is a Fine Art graduate but now holds the highest (non political) role within local government. Ask her how that happened she laughs and responds with ‘no idea’. 
I do wish ‘career’ advisors were not so blinkered with their advice.  
 

ps. I should have added that many of these ‘advisors’ seem to forget their own advice when enjoying watching live theatre/ballet/TV/galleries/. The list is endless. 

Feminine items. No matter the age.
Easy to overlook if you don’t think they are needed yet or dates don’t match.
Mother Nature can sometimes have other ideas 😉

Small sewing kit. A couple of needles already threaded is helpful. Just enough to reattach ribbons or elastics and some safety pins when there’s no time to sew. Not too sure if staff are on hand to help or expect pupils to do this but always good to be prepared. 
 

50 minutes ago, Anna C said:

Freed used to be brilliant and would customise shoes to suit, but that’s going back to when Beth Chivers was still the Manager. I don’t know if they still do that for “normal” customers.   Since Beth left, several RB dancers who were Freed wearers have changed to Bloch, who have a huge variety of pointe shoes.  I thought Bob Martin had retired, but I may be wrong.

 

Dancia probably has the widest range of manufacturers - I wouldn’t recommend them for for first pointe shoes or even the first year or two en pointe, unless you are a teacher/ex dancer and can supervise the fitting.  However, assuming your 16 yr old has been en pointe for some years and knows how well-fitting pointe shoes should feel, then you’ll be fine.  When dd moved from Freed to Gaynor Minden, after the first few pairs she’d just go into Dancia and fit herself. 
 

I never had confidence in Capezio for pointe shoe fittings; staff seemed to know nothing about pointework, but it has been a long time since we were last in there.

I’m sure Beth is now at La Duca as there can’t be too many ladies with the same name within the London dance shoe business. Beth offers the most amazing customer care & service. ☺️

Again from personal experience I would totally recommend Leanne Bisson who goes under the title “Straighttothepointeballet” on Instagram. Her links are on that forum.
A Grishko Master fitter.

Due to circumstances my DD was unable to have an in person fitting. supplied photos, drawings & measurements. Leanne also takes into account the level and hours spent en pointe to gain a greater understanding of the dancer. Best Pointe shoe fit ever. Never looked back. 
 

Works freelance as far as I know who travels all over the country fitting pointes including visits to several of the well known vocational schools  🩰☺️

30 minutes ago, FlexyNexy said:

In our case, terrible mixed fonts, bright red underlined paragraphs, and clauses and unclear instructions. Even join date had to be questioned via sms! 
Sad to see how some companies treat juniors and apprentices. My DD is not a prodigy to fly straight to soloist, but proud to keep her values and decline miserable offers. Sadly, we are not in a position to continue financially support her dream and expected her to be more independent with this dance. Love for ballet will not put food on her plate.

So sad to hear of so many stories like yours. The ballet world could end up losing out on many talented artists as it will be left to those that are fortunate enough to have a family that can financially support them rather than the company paying a living wage 😞   

15 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

At least there was a contract to read! Am appalled at how we almost let DC ‘join’ a ‘company’ overseas on a one way ticket we’d have had to pay for…. But when it became clear that there was indeed no contract, no clear info on t&c’s or work conditions or salary or expenses, just very ambiguous WhatsApp messages, DC realised that it wasn’t a job but exploitation & thankfully saw sense & declined…

 

Oh my goodness that’s awful. I’m so sorry that your son had to go through that experience. Hope all worked out for him in the end 🌏🙆🏻‍♂️

15 hours ago, glowlight said:

I think what I am about to write may be controversial,  but maybe we as parents of dancers need to instil in them a sense of self worth so that once they have completed their professional training they do not dance for nothing, they do not dance for 'exposure'. They realise that an unpaid 'job' is not a job it is exploitation.  This is tough, because for some it will mean they don't get the chance to perform, or they may have to re-align their expectations and take different types of work.  But every time a professional artist works for nothing, they are exacerbating the problem.  

 

That's not to say that they shouldn't perform on an amateur basis, or to support a charity or worthy cause.  But let's be honest about what it is.

Never a truer word written.
 

My DD declined one contract after reading the very small print of T&C’s incl pay. It would have been so easy to say yes, when sitting at home at the end of one contract just wanting to dance.  She just had this inner feeling that it wasn’t the right contract for her,  still not an easy decision though. 
She was spot on. Within a matter of weeks all the stars aligned for her current contract.  Living her best life. 🌏😊
 

19 minutes ago, glowlight said:

Oh but what an opportunity it is.  I am so grateful that we were able to afford to go and cruise on the ships my dd worked on, not just once but several times. We visited so many places that we wouldn't have thought of going to otherwise (who knew that Puerto Rico is so awesome!)  

How amazing, and yes absolutely. 🌎☺️✈️  

Ps. We now have a world map on the kitchen wall for all my (not so little) children to pinpoint where in the world they’ve been.  Competition is fierce of who can have the most coloured pins that mark their visits.  🌏😊

14 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Thank you Ballet Bean! I am so looking forward to seeing where it takes her! 😀

🤲🏻🩰🌏🤩 xx 

31 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Yes you are right, Peanut 68  we’re about to embark on vocational costs for the first time - and I think we have been very lucky to be in this position. She only got really serious about ballet at about 13.   We missed out on DaDa  because we were slightly over the threshold so this year is going to be particularly expensive for us but there is no way we could have denied her this opportunity! I’m hoping it will bear fruit and she’ll thrive whatever happens - at least she will have given it a go! I agree with your Pops 🤗! 
 

 

Best wishes & good luck to your DD on the next exciting chapter of her dance training ☺️

29 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Also, am I right judging from posts that your DC is yet to embark on Upper School? It defo gets more expensive the older they get IMHO…. 
I forgot to add in the costs that the feeling of sense of guilt that they are away from home gif so long also means you just cough up when maybe you’d not normally? Like saying yes to clothes/money to see friends/money for food/coffees out…. & the fact that they are not likely earning money of their own working in for example cafes at weekends from age 14 or so if at vocational school….

Now thinking a studio flat on outskirts of London could’ve been achieved!!! Ha ha ha!!! 
Would I change things???? Certain things, yes. Do I resent it? Certain people/places yes. Do I regret it all? No. 
You only get one life to live & as my dear Pops used to say ‘You’re a long time dead’ !! 
Just wish we could drag the arts out of this crazy outdated world of philanthropy & government funding & elitist ‘rich family’ self funding norm & actually get to a world where a dancer is as well remunerated as a plumber as seen as an essential part of society!! 

Training is one cost but then our darlings embark on a professional career which takes them overseas our expenses don’t stop. No quick road trip or letting the train take the strain so we can watch them perform.   Serious £££ are spent so we can watch them perform & living their best life. I’m sure none of us would have it any other way just hope the Bank Manager feels the same ☺️

1 hour ago, meadowblythe said:

It's not just starting out!  

 

Speaking of Eastern Europe the salaries are low but so is the cost of living.  Manydancers in the companies are locals and either treat the ballet as a part time job working elsewhere (dance schools, related industries ie photography), or are second wage earners.

 

Hard news for the Brits is when they have to buy a flight  elsewhere!  Can eat up vast amounts of their monthly wage

During my DD’s recent audition/visa process we were very pleasantly surprised & grateful to be informed that once she was offered the contract they would reimburse her with all her expenses incurred to-date.  I realise now that this is not common occurrence but shows it is possible. 

2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

As I was having problems opening the annual report from @oncnp's post, I've attached the pdf.

equity-annual-report-2021 (1).pdf 1.01 MB · 12 downloads

Thank you. Makes for some very interesting reading. Not a subject that’s talked about whilst the boys and girls are still at their respective vocational schools.  

Hi. Can’t help on the SS as my DD was a full time pupil however I can offer some suggestions for accommodation. There’s the IBIS, Princess Street (nearly oppo NBS) and situated next  to a public car park if required. The Premier Inn at Portland place is at the end of Oxford Rd when heading towards St P Sq (Tram station). Whilst they serve breakfast which isn’t incl it’s actually more cost effective to eat at the Wetherspoons on the ground floor of the same building 

I wouldn’t recommend the Britannia Hotel near to the Premier Inn. 😉

For packed lunches you are slightly spoilt for choice where NBS is situated. From the usual supermarket express stores to takeout establishments.  
There’s also a little park to relax in away from all the traffic just past NBS on the right, it forms part of the Uni campus but accessible to all and opposite another little supermarket. 😎

15 hours ago, Mjdb said:

Hi there

We have just had our trip to London for La Ducas.

We went with the mind set of getting all that she might need / want! As they do vary in fit...widths etc. DD ended up getting blk / nude character ( Alexis)  & nude taps. She has a broad foot so the Alexis were recommended by the fitter as these tend to be a wider model. Before we went she wasn't overly keen on the boots, but has been fitted so we will know her size if it becomes a need to have them.

DD was amazed by how they felt & fitted, she too had heard how great they were from other students & she agrees they feel so different & comfortable. She will be going into her 3rd year & at almost 19 we thought it was time the right time for her to have them. 

 

Mj

Congratulations on joining the La D club. 
If you bought the branded shoe bags may I suggest naming them on the outside and then changing the drawstring ties to various coloured ones, so it’s easy to see at a glance which colour/style shoe is in which bag. DD found that simple change a blessing. If you didn’t maybe worth making some out of strong cotton fabric. 
Also do keep at least one pair of old ‘New Yorkers’ if they have a rubber sole. Not all venues have descent flooring or outdoor work would lend to rubber rather than suede soles. 
Good Luck to your DD in her 3rd yr 💃🏼

9 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

Indeed @balletbean My DD has her own school and freelances at a couple of others - she's currently doing maternity cover for a friend too. But she still needs a job in a cafe as well. After a degree and dance teaching qualifications it's tough to be working so hard for so little though as she says, she is at least still working in the field that she loves, unlike many of her peers. And yes, she does a lot of unpaid work like making costumes, and overlooks unpaid bills from families she knows are struggling. She's just done some free exam preparation classes because she knows that a substantial number of parents just can't afford extras now. She worked for nothing and a "mystery benefactor" 😉 covered the hall hire. 

I think it's easy to get a bit of a skewed view of the dance world on here. Virtually everyone on this forum has a child who is "serious" about dance in a variety of ways and most of us accept that that comes at a price. We are all used to paying for lots of lessons, Associate schemes, Summer Schools, shoes, costumes and so on, so it is easy to forget that that is not the case with the majority of pupils in most schools. Most teachers depend on the "once a weekers" for the majority of their income, and those parents compare the costs to their children's other hobbies, like Brownies or sports that are run by volunteers, not professional teachers who are trying to earn a living. Running costs are sky rocketing but a lot of parents simply can't afford to pay class fees that  truly reflect the increasing costs. It's  definitely a hard time to be earning your living providing something which for the majority is a luxury.

Congratulations to your daughter on having her own dance school. My daughter and niece are both qualified dance teachers but have to supplement their income as a TA at a primary school & another in a dance shop. I dare not add up the hours they do by the end of the week. Probably like your daughter far exceeds the standard 37hrs.
But they love what they do and do what they love. Not many can say that 😊 

@Pups_mum the last line of your post struck a cord. Gone are the days that dance teachers were able to sustain a living on just their teaching wages.
 

Now you will find that most dance teachers take on other  jobs to supplement their income just to cover everyday costs. 
 

Dare not even begin to calculate how many unpaid hours of work these dance teachers do in their own time 😔

6 hours ago, Fiz said:

I had a look at the LaDuca. Oh, they are so pretty! I’m not showing them to my younger dd though. I am not buying them for amateur shows!

Absolutely, I held out and bought my DD her first pair as an 18th birthday present. The rest is history 😏
 

5 hours ago, Jewel said:

They are apparently, incredibly comfortable and supportive which is why professionals like them.

Incredibly comfortable with soft leather, flexible soles and rounded toes ensures no toes are pinched. The unique heel also allows even the most acrobatic of dancers support. 😊

1 hour ago, Jewel said:

LaDuca's are the elite of New Yorkers and tap shoes.  Very expensive so generally only those in professional training or working wear them.  They are also known for their boots.  They supply the Rockettes and also shows such as Kinky Boots, Moulin Rouge, Wicked etc etc

What’s interesting is that to have your own bespoke pair of La Duca’s in your own colour/design choices, whilst still up there on the scale of costs is not as much as I thought, or that I’ve just become immune to the cost of everything related to the world of dance🌏🤩😂