Jellybeans

Ribbons, is that also for yr 10?

How did you hear this, ribbons? it is surely not the sort of thing that they should be saying publicly?

But why not be more open about this? Why say there are no beds and put people off auditioning in the knowledge that there MIGHT be beds? I would have thought it is in a schools best interest to see as many children as possible not try and put them off!! And yes, we now have a new scenario! A child that did audition, did not get a final and possibly assumed until now that it was simply because there were no beds! I wonder, when they audition children before appraisals, if they are actively comparing them to those that are already there with a view to making way for any that they feel are stronger dancers?

I can see that child B could have auditioned, but still wonder why communication isn't more obvious. Something like " there are currently no places but that situation may change so do come along to the audition" would be more encouraging!! I wonder if famcandance was perhaps wondering about appealing about the result of an audition rather than about being assessed out? bankrupt mum - that is horrible news. I hope that everything goes well for you and yr dd in the future!

Cynicism or realism? A fine line but, in my mind, there is a subtle difference. Let's look at a hypothetical scenario: Child A applies to audition for a school but is told that there are no places for her year but than she can still audition if she likes. She decides to audition anyway, gets to the final and is offered a wait list place. Child B applies to the school, is told that there are no places available and decides not to audition because there seems no point and it is an expensive exercise. She ultimately hears about child A and feels that the situation was not well handled and wonders what may have been. She knows of other instances where protocols are somewhat hazy. She is, in fact a little cynical as, although she could have chosen to audition, she feels that not everyone interpreted the letter in the same way or was given the same opportunity. Child C applies to the school, is told that there are no places available and decides to audition anyway. She is not offered finals, although she feels as though she should have been given a chance. The difference as I see it is that child B does not get finals because she was slightly misled and child C does not get finals because the artistic staff did not find her suitable at that time. Now, of course, we all need to be realistic and maybe child B would ultimately have had the same result as child C but didn't get a chance to find out.

Anjuli, I believe that the school that Famcandance's dd auditioned for is a full time vocational school and, had she been accepted she would have the opportunity to dance everyday. Competition is fierce for these places. Undortunately, there are many, many children out there who desperately want these places and if they were offered to everyone just to "give them a break" there would be hundreds or thousands there, not just the tens that they are able to accommodate. I fully understand this from an artistic point of view. Famcandance, have you sought a reliable, independent assessment of your daughter's potential? It could be that the school in question is indeed being honest about your daughter in some ways but perhaps not giving you the full reason for failing to offer her a place? It is certainly true that, for whatever reason, not every associate of any one of the schools is routinely offered a full time place. Has she tried for places at any of the other schools?

In some ways this topic has moved away from the original intent, but that is good, like a "normal conversation"! I don't know enough about dance to argue with or question a decision made by artistic staff. My cynicism was directed more towards decisions that seen to be made arbitrarily or administratively - about the overall system, if you like.

I missed this before! Do you mean at schools other than Hammond and Tring where I thought it was the norm to get a place after just one audition with the second audition being to ascertain funding offers. surely this makes a joke of having a second or final audition if it applies to the other schools?

I know that life in general isn't fair but it seems particularly brutal to me that the success or otherwise of these very young children seems to be dictated by the whims of schools that seem to make he rules up as they go along! There have been endless posts on this and other forums about what the schools are looking for. I think the answer is that they do not even know themselves!

One of the schools told prospective students that they were full for a certain year but some auditioned anyway. of these then some have been invited to he final. I don't understand why they did this as by discouraging people to apply hey have possibly missed the opportunity to see good dancers.

I have read a lot of posts recently that have made me very cynical about the ballet world. for example, Children are invited to school finals and no places are offered? Children are told not to bother to apply to a school and then children in the same year that do apply are invited to finals? Children who are in the schools can be asked to leave without even being given a reason? Children that consistently fail to get a vocational place still go on to successful professional careers? Is any of this fair on the children or even right? DD has tried for a vocational place in the past but I am now confused as to what to do for the best as this has all made me seriously question how the schools operate and if this really is the best way to get a dance education. Do the schools genuinely take who they think are the best dancers at the time or are their other forces at play?

Wow, Sniffymum, only four there looking for a yr 8 place! What a great achievement to even get that far! Does anyone know if there were similar numbers for yr 9 and 10 places as well and if they gave an idea of how many places there were for those years? Hope you all hear soon!

Is it really better to stay? What can it do to those poor children that have been told that they aren't good enough for the school to have to spend perhaps another year there!! Best to be out of it and find a school that does like you!

So now all the letters must be out!! We have not auditioned this year but I felt as though I was waiting with you!! Good luck to everyone going to the finals soon - can anyone say which age groups etc of students will audition on which day?

I have a thought regarding payment and that is how much would a non registered user be able to see and do? I would be happy to pay a sub but are you saying that perhaps ONLY those that pay will be able to use the site? I would be concerned that that would stop potential new members signing up as they may want to try before they buy!!

What is the implication of Satisfactory with Concerns? That seems a particularly harsh result as it sounds as though they don't really like you but let you stay anyway. Do any of these students go on to become Satisfactory? Why would the school choose to keep students who a unsatisfactory? Surely that is not fair on students that audition for the school that may be denied a place due to lack of beds? There are time when I am glad that we are not in the system as this sounds worse than waiting for actual audition results!

Miracle, as far as I am aware, none of the schools have a set quota for finals; they invite everyone that they feel may be suitable and it is only when they come to offer actual places that they can only accommodate a certain number, either due to space or available funding.

Famcandance, there are many people out there in the ballet world that do not read these posts and no doubt some that do read them that do not want to divulge their own individual circumstances!! I personally have no information to share but I think it is a little naive to assume that no one has gained a place just because they have not broadcast it here! Edited for typo.

I did not mean that a child should be encouraged to stop dance if that is their passion but do think that expectations sometimes need to be managed. I agree that it is not good to protect children from rejection or the real world but neither is it good to constantly tell a child that has had many rejections that their time will come etc. Unfortunately, there are those children whose time just won't come and ultimately I think it is better to accept this sooner rather than later.

Juliew, this is a refreshing dose of reality. The ballet world is very tough and very few make it to professional level even if they do get a whole string of yesses at a young age. There are undoubtedly some who get early setbacks and no letters that go on to succeed but I am afraid that sometimes the no letters are simply an indication that a child does not have the potential. This is also not the end of the world but I would suggest to anyone that gets more than the odd one of these that they get an independent assessment of their child's ability as this may save much heartache later on as expectations can then be sensibly managed. Also, I have learned the hard way that invites to the final are nothing to do with the availability of beds as the schools obviously want to keep their options open. if they see someone that they really like in the first audition they will want to see them again and It is only after the final audition that the schools start to juggle who they can and can't take.

Does anyone have any more information about yr 10 places? I thought that they were full and decided not to audition but that cannot be the case if someone has an invitation to the finals.

Well done to everyone for their results, especially to Ballemum for the distinction! How old is your dd, Ballemum, out of interest? Is it unusual to get a distinction in the vocational grades?

Could your daughter do classes at a different level in her existing school? It can often be helpful to take classes below your level as this helps to build basic technique. What she does depends on her ambitions as a dancer. If she aspires to a career in dance, I really think that she needs to be doing more than one class a week (I noticed her age on another post of yours) and you may need to consider changing schools.