RobR

8 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said:

The plot of The Magic Flute is, indeed, a problem, not helped by the fact that the librettist seemed to switch tack about a third ot the way into Act One with the moral positions of the principal antagonists, the Queen of the Night and Sarastro, switching.

 

Così fan tutte is a different matter and the plot is, with respect, much more subtle than presented above. It may start from a male assumption that women are emotionally vulnerable, but, by the end, has shown that both men and women are emotionally vulnerable; that as human beings we make assumptions about relationships that are not necessarily sustainable; and that love is a complex issue. For me, it is one of the most fascinating operas in the repertoire, and there’s nothing misogynistic in the music Mozart writes for Fiordiligi in ‘Per pietà’ or ‘Fra gli amplessi.’

I have to accept that my views on opera may well be naive and that I may have missed the subtleties to which you referred but the thrust of my poorly made point is a concern about the way, in the opera, the two poor heroines' emotions are manipulated for the sake of a bet.

They are told that their beloved men have to go war. This is a 'humorous' ruse and the men go nowhere near a war.

The women do not receive any message(s) from the beaux for whom they are pining. Nor, in accordance with the bet, do the two men feel the need to send any message. 

The two men (manipulated by the obnoxious rake) return to the presence of the two women. They are heavily disguised and, for the sake of the bet, are happy for the rake and his assistant to try to persuade each of the heroines to give succour (I assumed both physical and emotional) to the 'other' beau rather than their own.

Each woman is bereft and very upset at what is happening yet their emotions are manipulated to cause each greater distress and the rake and the beaux seem entirely happy to pile indignity and stress onto the women they profess to love and cherish.

When I saw it, my prevailing feeling was not what a comic caper the plot is, not that in betting against the rake the beaux are defending their loves but that this 'comic' plot displays no sympathy for the feelings of the manipulated women and is, accordingly, abusive and misogynistic. 
 

You are entirely right about the fact that I didn’t get the subtleties of the plot.

I can understand why this issue is being discussed but am perplexed why nothing is being discussed about The Magic Flute or Cosi Fan Tutti, both regularly and recently performed at the ROH.

In the MF, the leader of the 'Freemasons', in encouraging the hero to forgo the heroine and join the brotherhood denigrates womankind as being intellectually inferior to men, a theme of the opera as I understood it, albeit unsuccessful.

In CFT, an unpleasant old rake bets the two male lovers that their loves are fickle and if they accept the wager, which they do, and follow his instructions he (the rake) will show the true nature of the women (and by the rake's lights) and women in general as being flighty and incapable of being the paragons their swains assert. 
 

What then follows (in the name of 'comic' opera) are a series of bizarre and unpleasant deceptions intended to make the poor and put upon heroines believe that their lovers are sent to war, killed or injured or have taken poison or (with the lovers complicit in the deception and disguised as strangers) must be slept with (?) to be restored to health.

Disregarding the music, which I appreciate many love, these misogynistic plots are far more in need of replacing than that of La Bayadere.

[I should say that I’m not a fan of Mozart and have a very limited appreciation and understanding of opera but, if there’s talk about rewriting ballet then opera should IMO, get the same treatment]

I fully understand the ‘dressing up’ issue. 
 

The jeans I wear to the ROH are generally newer than those I wear to the National Theatre 🤪

Hi Ann, most companies understand that relations (and guardians) want to see their children perform, particularly when dancing a lead role.

Perhaps your ward might speak to someone at ENBS, who can arrange for a ticket or two. 

And very nice to see Katharina Nikelski back dancing 

Me too!

(The exclamation mark is for emphasis 😀)

I’ve always watched it on the same basis set out by @ellyb

I’m sorry but your post is too vague for anyone to give any meaningful advice.

Assuming that your daughter attends a ballet school, and speaking as the parent of a daughter who did join a professional company, I strongly recommend that you discuss the options with your daughter’s teacher(s).

If you want to send me a pm, I’m happy to respond but I’m not sure that any additional advice I could offer would be particularly useful.

Thanks for sharing the link Roberta 😀👍

Thanks @Blossom for such a lovely review. 
I agree with it all. 
A really enjoyable evening 

2 hours ago, PeterS said:

I get offered Ukrainian girls several times a day.  is this connected to my having bought tickets to the Dance for Ukraine galas....? 

Good explanation - stick with it 👍😉

19 minutes ago, PeterS said:

Or perhaps a man who likes to wear women’s clothes and makeup?

Thanks for this, Peter. 
I’m rarely lost for words but this is one such occasion. 

1 minute ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Actually I find it reassuring that AI, in what is probably its most straightforward and profitable application (targeted advertising), is so bad at figuring me out!

Well, if you start getting ads for shaving gear, beard trimmers and Y fronts, you’ll have to let me know 🤪

I love classical ballet (no surprise there) and as the owner of a Parson Russell terrier, dogs too.

Like many of you, I go to Instagram to find (ballet) news and photos.

I follow various dancers and other posters; @dancersdiary, @missbunnyman and @embracethe ballet, and others 

All straightforward so far but, what I don’t get is why my Instagram stream has so many advertisements and links to women’s clothing, fashion, swimsuits, make up, …. 
 

Do the cookies assume that because of my interest in ballet that I’m probably a woman?

Just now, Sim said:

I do too.  Itziar doesn’t have the prominence she deserves. She is excellent in everything she does.  Her Tatiana in Onegin a few years ago was heartbreaking. 

And Paulina in TWT

I see from tonight’s cast list that Itziar Mendizabal is Lescaut’s mistress tonight.

I was very impressed by her performance in the general (tbh I’m always impressed by her) so I’m sure those going tonight will enjoy her dancing and acting.

7 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Which cast do you watch then? 

I’m also very much looking forward to seeing Fumi and Vadim on 23 February. 

Interesting to read the various reviews. Having seen a few of the casts, I very much enjoyed Lauren and Matthew.

20 minutes ago, Sim said:

.Regarding that scene...I seem to remember in previous runs that the townspeople were much more involved with the girls, e.g. running to help them stand up, putting a comforting arm around them, but it seems to me that that isn't happening anymore?

 

I think I’m right in saying that this is not scripted or choreographed but is very much a matter for the individual dancer(s) to interact or interpret in their own way.

Most, if not all, of the female dancers/townswomen in this particular scene are less experienced dancers. This isn’t in any way a criticism of them, their dancing or their age and experience. I merely mention it to put my earlier paragraph into context. 

1 hour ago, MAB said:

 

I'd like far shorter runs and far more different ballets each season.  I would also like many years to elapse before seeing those two ballets again.

Like @JohnS, and many other regulars living in London and the South, I like to go to a few performances of the same ballet, generally classics (I would have said 'white' ballets meaning Swan Lake, Giselle etc but didn’t want to be misinterpreted), MacMillan, Scarlett, Wheeldon, Balanchine, Ashton, to name a few.
 

I like to watch different casts so I’m all for long runs. 

I'm not such a fan of newer, shorter works, with quite a few exceptions which I enjoy, but would be happy for these to have shorter runs, as they currently seem to do.

Just to add that I decided, on impulse, that I fancied seeing this cast and responded, unsuccessfully, to two earlier offers so I'm thrilled to get this ticket.

Thanks @cjps

I’ll pm you 

I’ll pm you

Yes please, I’ll pm you 

1 hour ago, Sophoife said:

What a lovely rabbit hole you sent me down @Dawnstar! Anthony Dowell, who remains the only man to play both Des Grieux and Monsieur GM, made his first appearance in the latter rôle on 31 January 2003, with Sylvie Guillem and Laurent Hilaire, Brian Maloney as Lescaut, and a young dancer called Marianela Nuñez as his Mistress. Whatever happened to her?

Thanks for the memory @Sophoife, I have a happy recollection of that cast - with Will Tuckett as a very menacing Gaoler

None of the princes in classical ballet are perfect apart from the Sugar Plum Fairy’s Prince (with the possible exception of Florimund in SB, and that’s only because he’s late to the party).

Apart from those mentioned above, Siegfried picks Odile rather than Odette, Albrecht lies to (and possibly seduces) Giselle, Leontes is a complete jealous rat in The Winter’s Tale, Solor in La Bayadere, feckless James abandoning Effie in La Sylphide, and street hoodlum Romeo ruining Juliet's life in R & J.

No doubt there are others but the role of the prince depends on failure, jealousy or (in D G's case) weakness…..

I'm sure there are more