balletla

Just thought I would post the link to an article I posted in the 'Performances seen and General discussions' forum as I know it is an often discussed topic: Please post comments on that thread, not here and then they can all be kept together thanks. http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/3790-why-british-ballet-is-dancing-with-death/

Thought this article by Briony Brind was interesting and thought-provoking and has echoes of the article by Luke Jennings regarding training at RBS. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/10051368/Why-British-ballet-is-dancing-with-death.html

The pompous twit! I accept that these students have not chosen an academic route but that does not mean that they are not academically gifted, just that they have chosen not to pursue an academic route. I am always amazed by how academically clever most dancers are - my daughter and her dancer friends are all predicted to get top grades at GCSE and all could easily go to university. You have to be intelligent to dance well and it teaches them discipline and focus....and most of them do it in half the time as well because they have to spend so much time dancing! Note the emphasis again on "choosing a private provider". Hello! There is no other choice!!!! I hope people are still writing to David Laws so that at least he has to keep getting people in his team to write the same thing over and over again. They might get fed up eventually and do something about it!

In that case, why not say how the decision will be made if the course is oversubscribed and let people know that the audition is important not just for scholarships. This whole idea of audition by photo is actually very poor.

I don't mean that everyone who attended the scholarship audition got a place. I know that some didn't. What I meant was that the people who did get places were a subset of those who attended the audition (or were old favourites who have attended the summer school many times before and were already well known to YBSS)

I am slightly suspicious about YBSS. There is no requirement to attend the scholarship audition (unless you are hoping for a scholarship of course) and yet I heard today that they are so oversubscribed in the 14-16 age group, that they only offered places to people who attended the audition. If I'd known that, I would have put Bank Hol plans on hold and gone to the audition. Seems an unfair way of doing it.

You do have to be careful with this one. I know a couple of teenage dancers who are always having to deal with 'concern' over their thin physique and it is completely natural. They have always been that way and it is genetic.

So annoyed to see this article and the un-informed comment about most people who do ballet being upper class. What absolute nonsense! It is this sort of stereotyping from a position of ignorance that means ballet continues to be seen as elitist and does not attract the funding that other arts do. Someone should tell her that there are plenty of boys from Yorkshire in ballet schools and companies in this country! http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/lifestyle/arts-entertainment/leeds-dancing-star-picked-for-national-ballet-school-1-5647625

Spanner, Swan, was that by email or letter? My DD still waiting to hear and is not attending scholarship audition tomorrow.

All4dancers, Do they award some scholarships at the end if the course then? How many?

Incase anyone hasn't seen or signed the petition yet, the link is below: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/please-reconsider-the-new-changes-to-dada-funding

I support the view that there are no guarantees about having continued access to a funded place and that this could be lost at any time. This is what happens if your child is considered no longer suitable for training or other children are considered to have more potential and therefore get that funded place instead. That is not what has happened to my daughter and many others on this forum . She was successful in gaining 3 DaDA places because she does have the potential to succeed, but because of this last minute change to funding rules, there is no funding available this year at this income level. I would be quite happy to accept it if she had been told there was no funding because she is no longer talented enough, but not because the government drastically changed the funding rules at the last minute. I have spent approx. £45,000 over the last 5 years and the government has spent approx. £75,000. That money now goes to waste, not because she is not talented enough to continue but because the government decided to change the funding rules overnight, with no phasing or allowances or alignment to existing funding policy. I feel sad that some people seem unable to see that there is a difference in these two situations.

Sudden as in the details were only published in February this year. Not much time to respond to what are significant changes with a wide impact. And I would have needed at least 5 years notice for this level of change so that we could have made the decision not to go to vocational school in the first place. I don't think anyone could have prepared for this level of change. Yes it was clear that DaDAs were going to be means tested but I think most people expected it to be broadly along the same lines as MDS.

Yes it's a flat playing field for talent and getting a place. I am not saying that they are entitled to a place. But what is the point of the Government using it's precious funding for under 16s if they then can't continue because there is no access to funding over 16? Surely it is sensible to have the pre and post 16 systems aligned from a funding point of view? And the fact it that has changed very suddenly is totally unfair on the students that have come through that system and wastes everybody's time and money.

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Someone who starts ballet training at vocational school at 11 is not fully trained by 16 and needs to continue that training through 6th form. Some of them won't make it to 6th form either through personal choice or through not being selected. But for the ones that do get selected, surely it makes sense to enable the continuation of accessible funding otherwise why have the first 5 years at vocational school? What is the point? Your child trains for 5 years on the basis that you might be lucky enough to afford to continue by the time they reach 16 if you can afford full fees? That just wastes everybody's money and is pointless, although if that had been the situation when she started and I chose to take that risk, that is fair enough. The fact is, everything has changed at 6 months notice - too late for those already in the system. It this had been the state of play and she was starting now, there is no way she would have gone to vocational school as we would have known it would be pointless as we wouldn't be able to afford the DaDA places. We have paid out thousands for training that is now wasted! If she had got a DaDA place last year, we would be paying less than half of what we are expected to find now. As for why DaDA places the only ones acceptable - it's because that is how the majority of schools are funded and she has been offered 3 places at schools with DaDA funding. The only option that isn't DaDA for student loans is Central (for classical ballet). Edited to say: And the Government has paid out thousands for DD's 5 years of training as well - so their money is wasted. All that money could have been used to fund more nurses/starving children etc.

I'm sorry but it is just not the same. It is highly unlikely that student loans would ever go as that would rule out university education for a huge percentage of the country which is not in anyone's interest. Secondly, it would not affect those currently on university courses, just like the change to DaDA has not been instigated for those currently in training. Thirdly, even if student loans were abolished and you had a child denied access, you would not have spent years paying out thousands of pounds only to be denied funding part way through their university course - you would know in advance that it was not possible. It is appalling treatment by the government to move the goal posts so rapidly and to deny those who are completing their 5 years of MDS an opportunity to continue and finish their 6th form training. It is tantamount to pulling funding part way through a training course and is unforgivable in my book. It is a complete waste of time to partially train somebody and is far crueler than denying them funding in the first place.

Sorry Tulip but a child having their funding taken away due to no longer being considered suitable or being able to gain a 6th form place is very different to there not being a route available at all due to lack of government joined up policy. I certainly do not feel lucky to have paid out thousands of pounds over 5 years and through no fault of my own or my child who has shown she has got the talent to succeed, have no means whatsoever of finishing that training!

RBS Upper School is funded through MDS not DaDA and therefore is a continuation of the lower school funding arrangements.

It is more the lack of consistency that is the real issue here. I would not have made huge financial sacrifices to send my child to vocational school on an MDS for the last 5 years if I knew that it was going to be completely unaffordable for her to continue that training at sixth form. That is an indefensible waste of my money and government money. If I'd known at the start that there wasn't any funding I would have made different choices It is also the fact that the government cannot decided what type of further education this is and their policies do not align i.e. it is considered to be more advanced that the usual 16+ education when it comes to stopping child benefit but not when it comes to accessing student loans. Its about having a CONSISTENT funding policy!

Well I'd look at the graduate destinations for a start. It also depends where your DDs strengths lie. My impression is that most of Northern's graduates end up as teachers or working on cruise ships, whereas Central's graduates work in a variety of different companies. There is a thread on graduate destinations on here somewhere or you can find them on their websites usually. It also depends on funding. Cleariy Northern is DaDA funded which many are finding challenging this year (see DaDA thread) whereas Central is degree funded and there is access to student loans. Many factors to take into account.

I don't think the schools' income will reduce. There are is still the same amount of DaDA funding from the Government, it is just allocated differently. The issue is that the total funding remains flat i.e. no annual increase for inflation, so with rising costs for food/energy etc, it becomes harder to make that money stretch. The consequences of this are being felt already at the RBS where they are cutting staff and restructuring the school. The other schools have previously had more flexibility as they could offer quite a few non-funded places to make up some of the shortfall; something that RBS is not able to do as all their policy is that all places are funded. However, the changes in DaDA will mean that a lot of families are now expected to pay full price and will now start looking very carefully at what they get for their money. No matter what you earn, spending £75-90k on dance training is a tough call - you could send your child to a top private school for that money and that has played into our thinking as my DD is very academic as well as being talented at ballet. Or you could go abroad for a fraction of the cost (I think from memory, the Bolshoi is 'only' £15k a year isn't it Primrose?) Schools will have to look at reducing costs and finding different/cheaper business models for delivering training, that maybe isn't all centred around a very costly boarding model? Maybe some of the schools will merge to reduce their overall cost - you would only need one AD, one school principal etc but have double the students (income). I will also be far more demanding about what i am getting from the school. Traditionally there has sometimes been an attitude of trying to keep the parents at arms length when it comes to some of the ballet training in these schools and there has been a reluctance to involve parents and a fear from parents of somehow jeopardising their child's place if they create too much fuss. The balance of power has been with the school. Well frankly if I am paying that kind of money, that will change and I will make sure I am very clear what they are delivering for my child!! In short, what the Government changes will do is start forcing more of a 'competitive market' between the schools which will lead to efficiencies. Any reduction in the full cost of a place will be passed on the Government as the school will not be allowed to charge different prices for funded and non-funded places. This is what is happening in all areas - state schools, NHS etc.

Well at least she has the audition experience to look back on and she gave it a go as she wasnt even going to audition initially was she. It also seems to have clarified that she wants MT so all in all a good outcome! Good Luck to you both.

I have spent a fortune on physios over the years with very little resolution of my issues. More recently I have found that chiropractors seem to resolve my problems far quicker and the best ones are also trained in muscular work as well, so can treat the whole problem more effectively.

I didn't say that the places weren't offered on talent, what I said was that it doesn't matter whether they are or not - the end result is the same. A student offered a DaDA place on talent who does not qualify for that place because of income, effectively gets replaced by the next person on the waiting list who does qualify for funding. The school may not know who qualifies for funding, so they work their way through the waiting list till they find someone who can accept the place. Meanwhile the people who have been offered a place who don't qualify for funding still keep their place offer but they have to decide if they can afford full fees. Most won't be able to so they will decline. Some will and they will accept. We are not talking huge numbers here but by default, some people further down the list will get in and some further up the list won't. It actually makes the usual job of offering places far harder than ever before for the schools, because some of the people they want are not eligible for funding and can't afford full fees, so more places are being turned down than ever before, meaning the whole system is in chaos.