atacrossroads

23 hours ago, Anna C said:

Some posts on this thread have been hidden while under review for being thought to contravene the Acceptable Use Policy and/or forum moderation policy, or because they respond to/quote a hidden post.

 

Balletcoforum Moderators

Alison, I was referring to this post by Anna about posts being hidden.

i totally appreciate the time the moderators put in voluntarily in order for this forum to exist.

2 hours ago, Anna C said:

 

The Moderators are discussing the issue and where the posts that don't contravene AUP might best be placed.  However, as previously stated, this thread is for 2018 auditions and not the place for criticism or in depth discussion about RBS. 

I'm sure I won't be alone in hoping that the Moderators will consider removing posts extremely carefully, when the point of this forum is to provide parents with information, factual information, not a sensored rose coloured spectacles view of what is let's face it, a harsh industry.  Sending your children to these schools is a massive decision and this forum is one of the few ways that parents can get a realistic view of what they, their DCs and their family are in for. 

I understand that having your forum rules adhered to is vital to protect the identities of those mentioned, however, following the 3 points you addressed earlier:

1. As uncomfortable as these posts are, I would question whether they are in fact just 'critical', rather than "Highly" critical.  We must have critical posts as well as positive posts or we are censoring reality in a way that is surely a disservice to us all, but especially those with DCs embarking upon schooling in one of our top vocational schools.

2.  I don't see that anyone has in any way been 'outed' in these posts (apart from perhaps the AD of WL, who is not a student). There are many UK girls in that year at WL as well as Internatiinal students and naming a school and year group is far from indicating who a specific child might be.

3. This discussion was in every way linked to the 'audition results' part of the title.  This is very much to do with audition results, what they are, how they came to be in what we perceive to be our top training facility and the natural progression of this discussion into where the students are coming from that have displaced U.K. hardworking students, and will go on to fill our UK companies.  

Until this thread started talking about this on Thursday there was next to nothing being posted in Questionas about Upper School Auditions and barely anything in this thread about US audition results.

Other threads on this forum recently, such as the many posts on the Balletdadblog thread, have highlighted just how scared parents are once in the system to actually speak out about what it's like to be in UK vocational schools.  It's not all a bed of roses in any way.  There is so much heartache, injury, mental health and eating disorders, as well as bullying to be considered, alongside all the many wonderful aspects of life that do also exist in these schools.  It would be irresponsible for an unrealistic picture to be painted of reality because we want it to be all about success stories, mansion houses and outstanding pastoral care.

Maybe if we do speak out in an environment where we can, which is pretty much only this forum, something might finally get through to the right channels and in the future, there might be change....

Maybe it should be included in Questions about Lower or Upper School Auditions instead as it is valid information from forum users with first hand knowledge.  If I was about to make a huge decision to send my DC away from home for years of their childhood or adolescence, I would like to have a clear view of the road ahead.

You’ve summed it up so well Sadielou.  

I’ve noticed this year that the majority of people reading or commenting on the audition stages of the Forum are parents of DCs from years 5-9. 

Once you get to the gruelling stage of US auditions there is a drop in contributions (presumably as the process becomes so intense and personal that you try not to focus on it hourly and just try to get through it with the end result of an offer somewhere.).

I would urge these parents of younger students to research widely into the business as a whole, the training beyond RBS being the be all and end all, and what else is available out of this country as well as within it in the form of private coaching or elite after school vocational classes.

dreams are very important, but a realistic perspective is more useful...

With barely half of WL year 11s making it to RBS Upper School,  I would imagine it would be a bit of a stretch to think that a child doing one afternoon a week with them is going to get into Upper School.  They'd be better off not travelling the country and having a private lesson with someone good nearer to home possibly?

16 minutes ago, Lifeisgood said:

Hi, do we know if any girls not from wl were offered places? 

Surely there  were some senior associates there too? My dd knew of one sa girl who she felt was definitely worthy of a place! 

No associates were offered places, I think only one SA got to Finals. I don't know of any SA's getting offered Upper School that I can recall.  You would imagine that if RBS wanted them for US they would be at WL getting their full time training.

I don't know of any UK girls from other schools being offered RBS Upper School places, does anyone else out there?

Absolutely.  The stats are awful for our UK students and I would imagine that the money used to give scholarships to these highly trained International children is coming to the school from the UK government, who presumably have no idea that they are funding the further training of non UK talent.

If you look at other European schools such as Paris Opera Ballet or Royal Danish Ballet, they are taking mainly children from their own country and training them right through to joining their companies.  If the Royal Ballet School and English National Ballet School had to take 80% British students, the attitudes towards training here would have to change.

RBS should be embarrassed, the statistics for their years 7-11 training success compared to other European schools falls very short.

Yes Lifeisgood, they came out yesterday.

That’s correct meadowblythe

On 13/03/2018 at 13:05, Vonrothbart said:

 

There's a girl who was told by RBS when she was 16, that she didn't have the "right" body for ballet, she was accepted into the company when she was 18, via a different route.

I'm hearing more and more stories like this.  The trend seems to be moving away from UK vocational training as a route to a career in ballet.

When you consider that the rumour is that only 2  WL girls who came in year 7 have made RBS US for September, only 5 WL girls have made it into RBS US at all and that the rest of the US intake are internationals, including international competition winners, it makes you wonder whether even the top vocational schools can either provide the required training, or even spot the correct candidates to train from year 7....

Masters of Ballet Summer Intensive at Sadlers Wells has some amazing teachers on the Faculty.  The studios are wonderful and there’s no need to pack a lunch or snacks as the food in the backstage cafe is amazing, with very healthy hot and cold options.

I think there are also spaces left on their Easter Intensive in their Studios in W3.  Nathalia Barbera, 1st Year Women’s  teacher at English National Ballet School will be teaching Senior Ballet:

https://www.mastersofballet.org/

In some ways it’s even harder for boarding vocational students as they are stuck in school, miles from home with no access to private lessons to have these specific exercises set, it’s hard enough for them to get the photos done. If the school has a sixth form they will have no incentive to help these children to apply elsewhere. 

These videos generally take about 7 hours to film with 2 hours being devoted to learning and filming Barre, another 4 for centre practice and another hour for pointework.  It’s too exhausting to shoot in one day, you need at least 3 to 4 lessons to get it right and to get it on camera.  That’s very tricky, not to mention expensive for any parent to facilitate,. 

22 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

It's for everybody according to the ENBS website. It says "All UK and international applicants must send a video audition."

 

Yes, all applicants unfortunately...

44 minutes ago, Anna C said:

 

Is that for UK students, atacrossroads? Or only for international applicants. 

All applicants have to submit an application video now, UK and International.  RBS and possibly Elmhurst get put straight through to Prelims and the YDA (and WLSD) joined the 1st year US for a private audition to go through to Finals.  Otherwise all others have to submit this video audition.

Is anyone still waiting to hear back from ENBS audition videos?

I was surprised that there hasn't been much discussion on the new video application process this year on the forum.  Making the required 20-30 minute video has been an exhausting process taking many hours of studio time and private lessons.  As NaiveDad so rightly said, it may be just to get their foot in the door, but the school will have that video to refer back to later in the process, to watch in slow motion if required, so presenting your child's best work is imperative.

I wonder if the whole expense and length of process has put many off applying at all.....

It is important to enjoy every step of the journey, I totally agree with that sentiment and for many students they are very happy to enjoy the journey and then divert to a totally different path in life.  It should be a happy one, but more often than not it impacts on the rest of the family and therefor should not be taken lightly.  What is important though is to be realistic about what those schemes are there for, what they offer, who is benefitting from them and whether they are giving realistic feedback to the parents about the students.  It's very easy to be naive about classical ballet training, we've all been there whilst on our journeys and I think NaiveDad makes some incredibly valid points that should be like gold dust for the parents just embarking in a journey which may lead to a decision which involves their child leaving home to train at vocational school.   

NaiveDad, you couldn’t have said this better.  Thank you so much for posting this fabulous summing up and advice for parents who have the time before them to make the right choices.

We are in the same boat as you timing wise, but I wish I’d known way more, far sooner about the International programmes out there and how from Year 11 your child will be competing for classical Upper School places on a World stage, alongside the highly trained European and Asian children who as you say are slim, flexible and dynamic on stage as well as in class.

I would like to add that as lovely as Associate schemes can be when they are younger, they are not necessarily the road to future success.  There are many children who go all the way through Associate Schemes and get no Upper School places.  I’m glad we spent our time and money elsewhere.

Your Saturdays could be better spent not spending hours in the car or on trains getting to London for a class, but having a few hours with a very good private teacher who will work specifically on your child’s weaknesses, leaving them time to go out shopping with friends, spend time with their family or just watch TV!

It’s an incredibly tough profession to break in to and I would advise any parent of a younger child to do tons of research on what’s going on worldwide and how children the same age are being trained, because many British ballet companies are full of primarily International dancers and if the aim at the end of the journey is to get hired, your child will need to be in a position to compete with them...

Generally in fee paying academic schools around the county the attitude towards parents is 'you are our clients and we want to keep you as happy as possible', in vocational schools it's 'your child is lucky to have a place here, so don't raise your head above the parapet or life could get difficult for both you and your child. We know what's best for your child, not you'.

Sad but true...

On 11/01/2018 at 18:37, LinMM said:

Well one of the values of OFSTED is that they have time set aside ( or used to) just to talk to parents.

If any parents then had serious concerns about the school this could be aired.

 

I have no idea then how far the concerns would go....obviously the school would put their side of things but I'm sure if OFSTED were a little suspicious they would certainly lower the school's rating and ask for certain performance targets to be achieved and then visit the school again ....often within a year .....depending on severity of findings....to see how things progressing.

 

I know OFSTED Is not everything but can be helpful in getting a school which has lapsed its standards a bit to get back on track....though occasionally this is at the cost of the head teacher.....sometimes deservedly and sometimes unfortunately not.

I'm not sure that OFSTED have been into the school I presume this is about in the last few years.

From my experience at my DC's vocational school (which we have taken DC out of and are now also doing specialist private training and home schooling), the parents live in constant fear of complaining to either the school, or even OFSTED or ISI for fear of being found out and the repercussions that might have on their child.

Even when a Survey Monkey questionairre was sent out, which is supposed to be confidential, many parents I spoke to were still too afraid to put their concerns in writing in case the school had some way of identifying them.

Supply and demand is the problem. But these schools need to be shaken up and investigated properly.

My Dd loved Masters of Ballet Summer Intensive at Sadlers Wells.  They had an amazing faculty of teachers and the Sadlers Wells studios and catering are really excellent. The Gala at the end was beautiful.

It's on their email attachment confirming their place on the course, 10am to 3:45pm with a Q&A at 3pm. Registration is at 9:30am

The classes will be of a very high standard with the calibre of teachers at the school.  The aim is to provide vocational level training, both in quality and quantity of classes (although the hours will be slightly less than at a vocational school), but in after school hours, giving students the best of both worlds hopefully.  The older children hoping to audition for Upper Schools will no doubt take classes on most days during the week, however I'm sure the younger children will be able to take a more introductory approach and parents shouldn't be put off applying if their child wants to start on one or two days only.  

Olga also teaches at English National Ballet School and Central School of Ballet and Elena (an Ex Lead Principal at ENB) has been teaching for both ENBS and RBS in the last year.  

My Dc has been going to Olga's classes for a year on Sundays and will now be attending every day (except Mondays when there are no classes).  We've found her teaching to be incredible technically, disciplined yet kind and good value for money. The classes aren't the cheapest around, but if your child is serious about their ballet and when you consider who's teaching them, what you might get for less money and the bad habits that your child might struggle to break further on down the line, it's money very well spent.

The brand new studios have been built to their specification, so will offer fantastic facilities to train in  

So it looks like 12 company contracts.  Would there have been 12 boys and 12 girls in the year, or does it tend to be less in the third year?

On 25/05/2017 at 08:01, Harwel said:

That comment makes me so cross.  Very poor advice from a one off course, irresponsible in my view and not at all helpful. They have no deep knowledge of your child, have no real invested interest and if it was actually delivered in such a blunt way no interest in nurturing a young child. Stick with your full time teachers advice and support.

 

flexibility will increase with the correct training, and strength will mean that that flexibility becomes accessible.  10 is far too young to be giving absolutes.  You definitely shouldn't be taking on extreme stretching at home and extreme stretching as seen in these awful instagram posts is very damaging for a young developing body. The last thing you need is a spinal fracture or a labrum tear - very real possibilities. 

 

Obtaining a place at vocational school is tough but can be a bit of a poison chalice. Some children will actually do better with a good local teacher and go away to school a few years later and do just as well as those that have been away since 11. There are 12 ish places available at RBS, they can afford to be extremely picky, not all those chosen will even get through to upper school let alone go all the way through white lodge.  A couple of years ago only 3 of the original girls taken in at 11 went in to upper school.  Things change, bodies change, desires change, personalities change.  Don't risk your daughters health for the sake of a poorly thought out comment by a one off course provider. 

My Dd has done more than one Masters of Ballet course with this teacher and had it impressed upon her never to come in to the studio and stretch cold, but to warm up the body properly first and never to cause the body pain in stretching.

The Russian teacher also went to great lengths to explain that the turnout each child should be demonstrating should be from the correct use of the inner thigh and posteria rather than forcing from the feet and straining the knees.

i would imagine this comment was possibly misunderstood because of the slight language barrier.  This Russian teacher has an extremely good reputation and has her own London based dance school.  She's also had in the last year one pupil accepted into the Bolshoi School, two into White Lodge and two to Vaganova School.

Dd loves these courses.  She is Year 10 at vocational school and this is always her favourite course for Easter and Summer.  The facilities (and food!) are also amazing at Sadlers Wells!

Hi Tootu,  I asked similar questions and got an email saying:

Lessons for students from 11-19 year old start at 10 .00 am and finish at 4/5.00pm depending on the daily timetable.

Foundation group: from 12.00-2.00pm

Students may wear any ballet uniform abs bring Character shoes and character skirt.

For the final day Performance: 
girls : black sleeveless leotard, black chiffon skirt, black footless tights for contemporary  

boys: : black tights and short sleeve white top, black ballet shoes.

hope this helps!