Lindsay

I think it is really important for audiences to express their feelings though.  Part of the reason for ENO being given a temporary ‘reprieve’ from the proposed move and cuts impacting them is because of the huge campaign from musicians and audiences to defend the importance of their work.  Please remember that musicians as well as dancers are artists - we already spend so very very little on the arts compared to other European countries that these things are the result of truly unnecessary subsidy slashes.  It is absolutely embarrassing and disgraceful that a major ballet company should be forced to perform to recorded music - especially when the government is claiming to be focussed on “levelling up” outside London.

7 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

I paid £25 for my Rheingold ticket, not sure I could fly to either of those cities for that price!

Could I ask what priority group you book in to get that ticket please? I tried repeatedly for cheaper tickets both at general booking and through stalking the site for returns and failed for the first time ever.  Suspect that many who normally book ‘better’ seats were forced into the cheaper seats by the pricing this time…

Rheingold was also phenomenally expensive, even for Wagner.  Stalls seats were well over £300, way back in the amphi was in the high £100s and a few seats remained unsold close to the run (which I have never seen before for the Ring). The 'mostly listening' cheaper seats all sold out very early so the only option for most people was extortionate pricing.  Very disappointing. 

39 minutes ago, FionaE said:

Well it is not that different to other non-Russian dancers choosing to remain in Russia, and many hundreds did (as discussed elsewhere in this forum), including MANY born and/or trained in Ukraine.  
 

it is possible to choose to live your life for dance and personal career  opportunities rather than political ones.
 

It is also possible to have a political point of view that supports the Russian narrative rather than the NATO one.  
 

I cannot say what Prisca’s views are, but there is no ‘freedom’ in NATO if she is somehow not allowed or disrespected for having a different view of the world to the NATO one.  

I do not think it is at all incompatible with “freedom” to criticise somebody who supports an aggressive state which has repeatedly broken international law and murders its opponents at home and abroad.  To say otherwise is moral relativism of the worse kind (as well as a very Trumpian ‘both sides’ argument)

Dance careers in major Russian companies such as the Mikhailovsky companies are currently unavoidably tied in to the state. Look at the some of the recent and explicit propaganda with soldiers alongside ballerinas - Katja Khaniukova has posted examples on her instagram….

Yes Bridiem- I also thought there was something very odd going on with the sound (I was in the First Circle).  I had come largely for the music and it was very disappointing - it almost sounded recorded and some of the percussion in particular sounded like electronics.  I also agree with you about the orchestration for Les Noces - have never heard this version before and missed the pianos (which I fear we shall never hear again live in a ballet context) And while some of the singing was very good I don’t really like the text in English either.  
 

T&V indeed showed how much more Balanchine could do with classical steps than most other choreographers.  It was not the most ‘full-out’ performance though and looked a bit nervous.  I saw this ballet in Stockholm last year and the dancers seemed to be “going for it” much more.

In bad news, David Dawson has still not got over his obsession with male dancers carrying female dancers around upside down in nude leotards with their legs splayed.  The ballet got a standing ovation so I am probably in a minority here but it made me quite angry.  There was not one sequence in the ballet where women were not being manhandled……

Some extraordinary performances in Les Noces though.  Especially James Streeter.

1 hour ago, Blossom said:

Please can someone confirm the run time tonight? The rehearsal last night had a rather long second interval in particular and finished much later than anticipated. 

I think it finished around 10 - wasn’t paying much attention but the last ballet was not too long (thankfully)

22 minutes ago, PeterS said:

 

 

Has Mayara Magri danced Kitri before with the Royal Ballet or will this be her debut? 

if yes, who has she partnered previously? 

thank you in advance

Yes, with Alexander Campbell

Agree Bruce.  I watched the streaming of the Vienna DQ at the weekend and the music was SO much better and really complemented all the beautifully quick footwork in the Nureyev version! It is going to make the RB ‘arrangements’ very difficult to bear….

11 minutes ago, dance fan said:

I think you support my point.  I said ballet fan may stop supporting ballet if it became "too woke" thus I'm saying that ballet fans are "not woke".  You appear to agree with me or at least partially because your claim is that ballet is the "least woke" of the "high arts".

I do not support your point at all.  I think ballet is missing out on new audiences (and outside of the ROH/Christmas Nutcracker remember it is very hard to sell out ballet in the U.K.).  I think the current audience is much smaller than it could be (and ageing and not regenerating itself) because of the dated attitudes and stereotypes.  I am very happy to see  dancers who look like human females rather than the current Russian trend for stick-thin clones.

On 14/09/2023 at 18:12, dance fan said:

As far as I can tell, the only thing that will make ballet fan stop attending and supporting it is if they think the ballet themselves are too woke, or the ballet organization are too woke.

I don’t think you speak for all “people here” dance fan.  Ballet is one of the least “woke” (some might call it respectful by the way) of the major art forms.  To the extent that I often go to the ballet alone whereas I would never hesitate to bring friends to the theatre or concerts.  I am still stinging from inadvertently taking a shocked friend to a Bolshoi performance several years ago which contained blackface……

23 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

I've 'bumped' the 2021 thread about White Lodge and the LADO and Met Police investigation (which came to the conclusion that basically, nothing was wrong)

 

With respect Ondine we do not know this is what was concluded.  It is possible that they just did not have sufficient evidence at the time to act on.

3 minutes ago, Candleque said:

If you google "Royal Ballet School" and go to the News results, you'll see a few of these positive PR placed stories creeping in underneath the mainstream newspapers (Daily Mail having a ball btw). On random sites like Warrington Worldwide (no offence to the actual town) which states in its fine print: "Please note this website contains advertising and sponsored content..."

It's not the most subtle PR tactic.  In fact some might call it comically unsubtle...........

11 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

I simply don't understand how this article and the experiences described in this thread, some of which are quite recent, are in any way reconcilable.

I think (as discussed already in this thread) there is often a difference between "what we say" and "what we actually do in practice"....

2 hours ago, Balleteveryday said:

Does anyone have links to anyone with kids in the schools now? What is the messaging that they are receiving off the back of this? Given the huge financial investment I hope it’s a more reassuring and proactive message for parents than what was sent to those of us with some but significant more limited investment.

What I hope is that there is some attempt at honesty and providing safe and confidential channels for current students to express any concerns they might have.
 

What I fear (which is what happened with some of the music schools) is that staff informally rally students to defend the school against “attacks” by ex-students and “outsiders” and portray all criticism, however justified, as “harmful to the current students”…

16 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Does anyone know if the Panorama programme included a whistleblowing number / contact for anyone affected by the contents of their programme? 

You could also message @BBCMarkDaly the BBC reporter who led the investigation on Twitter.  Alternatively @DinoNovicelli of Leigh Day, a solicitor acting on this, is collecting information about a list of schools he has set out on Twitter.

6 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

But Inspectors must see reports of  complaints, as indicated above.

Richard, for an example of how these things play out in practice you might be interested in reading this blog written a few years ago by a father of a pupil at one of the two schools discussed last night, who struggled through the complaints process at great damage to himself and his son.  The Governors in the end upheld his complaint but excused the staff behaviour on the grounds that they had found this parents' complaints "scary"

https://www.balletdadblog.com/the-blog

3 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

But have they, officially? If they have, they would have to be recorded and available for Inspectors... as explained in the RBS complaints policy.

https://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/discover/royal-ballet-school-policies/

 

So if there have been such complaints, and they  are multiple, genuine and serious, I can't imagine how  Inspectors could have been ignoring them in reaching their assessment...irrespective of the "Royal" tag referred to by @billythewhizz

Richard you have a very naive faith in the power of 'systems' and written policies.  Inspectors are neither omniscient nor infallible and the scope of their enquiries are necessarily extremely limited.  

15 minutes ago, Drdee said:

I don’t think it’s helpful blaming the schools entirely. 

 

When I hear these comments I just do not know if we saw the same programme @Graceful. This is not about blaming the schools. It is that these two schools are failing their students. These schools are trying their best but they are needing to tackle head on a number of 'outdated and counterproductive' toxic behaviours/attitudes that emanate within the ballet industry. This starts with the training and finishes with the productions we attend and are nurtured by. The teaching approaches need to change and adapt to what is happening now and meet the needs of the future generation of dancers. This programme has been thoughtfully put together with professionals who care about the industry and those who work in that industry. This needs leadership and a diversity of voices. 

This is absolutely right.  DrDee do you know whether any of the vocational schools have adopted (or been asked to adopt) the "Safe Teaching Practice" Guidelines from the Checklist on the Safer Dance website? They look eminently sensible and remind me of a similar set of guidelines devised in the wake of the specialist music schools scandal (which aimed to stop unsafe practices like teachers giving lessons in their own homes, touching students without consent, using inappropriately sexualised language with the excuse that it reflected their 'passion' for the music).  There was a big push amongst the community of musicians campaigning for change to get institutions to commit to following those guidelines.  It seems to me that would be a very good focus for any communications/petitions people wanted to address to ballet schools (although I'm sure Safer Dance will have thought of this already!)

15 minutes ago, StephanieM said:

As a parent with a child whose dream is to be a ballerina I follow this forum (along with others) and anything else I can find to educate myself as much as possible about the industry. It is my job as a parent to make sure that what I do is in the best interests of my child. I know my daughter best which means that I (and not a school or teacher) have a better idea of how much dedication, drive and resilience she has and whether it may be enough to enter an elite field. I also have the best idea of her mental and emotional maturity. I am also best placed to asses how her body will (more than likely) develop during puberty based on that of my family and my husbands family. Family genes! Parents can definitely get a better idea of likely outcomes than a school or teacher ever could at an audition. 

 

Railing against the institutions and

saying “but things should be different” changes nothing. This will be an unpopular opinion but it needs to be said - it all ultimately starts and ends with the parents. It is the job of the parents to manage a child’s expectations as to what is realistic and achievable for that child. It seems in far too many cases that it is the parents dream for the child (their own vicarious dream) that is being enabled. My child has been dancing since she was 4. She is now 9 and doesn’t even realise/understand that vocational schools exist and what that actually means. A child isn’t born with the dream of going to vocational school. They were sold that dream along the way. The only way a child can know of what is possible is if these aspirations were fostered by others - be it parents or dance teachers or friends etc. It is ultimately a parent’s job to step in and manage expectations. If you don’t want a dance teacher indicating in code that your child’s physical attributes may not be suitable to ballet, do it yourself!! You can only fight family genes so far, ultimately, and it sounds much better coming from a parent!

 

As an outsider with no ballet knowledge whatsoever, it is extremely obvious to me what a ballet physique is likely to entail and that it is rare in the general population. There is absolutely nothing wrong with explaining to your child as they develop that their physique is perfect in every way but just may not necessarily be suited to ballet - in the same way their body won’t necessarily be suited to any other elite sport. Whether that is fair or unfair is not a helpful discussion. It is the reality at this time and that information should be discussed openly and lovingly by a parent with their child. If a teacher criticised my child’s physique, I would remind her of our discussion and explain again she is perfect in every way but just maybe not for ballet (like many, many others) and that we knew this time may come. There are so many other fulfilling careers in the industry and not everyone can be a ballerina no matter how badly we may want to be one. 

 

Body dysmorphia and poor diet is a huge problem for many children of all ages today - whether they are dancers or not - and it is our job as parents to instil appropriate values and eating habits from the day they are born so that they are not at the mercy of what the outside world throws at them like a leaf in a storm. We need to do better. A child arriving at a vocational school already with body issues or not having it explained to them in advance by their parents (in a loving and sensitive way) that they may look significantly different as they go through puberty (through no fault of their own) and hence ballet may not necessarily be a career for them, is a recipe for disaster. It is likely that many children will feel that they (or their bodies) are letting their parents down….the very parents who have worked so hard, sacrificed so much and supported them to get in. Letting down your parents (in reality or thinking you have done so) is a huge burden for a child to carry. 

 

If you are not able to develop your child’s self confidence, self worth, resilience and understanding of what the rigours of elite training will entail in an honest and realistic manner (ie having some difficult discussions based on the Panorama documentary as well as the many anecdotes on this forum) perhaps life at a vocational school may not be a suitable option for your child. 

With respect Stephanie M, I think with a 9 year old with no experience of vocational school you should not be effectively 'parent-blaming' those who have had teenagers damaged by this system.  Look for example at Rubyfoo's post, which shows a parent with their eyes wide-open doing everything they can to sensibly protect their child.  The problem isn't that teenagers are concerned about letting down their parents.  It is that very bright, dedicated hard-working teenagers are (in many cases correctly!) decoding the destructive steps that the schools want them to take in order to 'succeed'.  It is the system that is sick - not the parents!

2 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

Here we are presented with 4 cases and make concluding remarks. How about the thousands of others with different experiences 

It’s never the case that it’s alright to treat children (they are children) in a cruel and abusive manner just because it is a small percentage of students (which all of the comments here and elsewhere suggests that it is not).  The number of children cruelly treated by adult professionals into whose care they have been placed should be ZERO

There is also a difference between the 'ultimate' body dancers will have as an adult professional and the developing body they have as an adolescent.  It is very common for weight to fluctuate during puberty and the schools would do well to take a longer term view and work with the bodies before them rather than trying to force the 'end-product' at a stage where abnormally low weight can have a knock-on effect for later bone health or fertility.  Dance education needs to refocus on the distinction between students and professional dancers - they are not the same thing.

5 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

Some students are utterly humiliated in front of their peers, and demoralised to the point that they can't even bring themselves to ask for help.

This is absolutely the case and they make no attempt to hide it.  I was once part of an invited group to watch a first year class at Upper School and one young man did more pirouettes than the teacher had asked for and was yelled at and sent to sit out the rest of the class on the floor in the corner.  The fact that the teacher and the other school staff in the room saw no issue with embarrassing a student like that in front of strangers made me wonder what they hell it was like ‘behind closed doors’

With due respect for your experience Capybara I think those who are not selected in the first place for whatever reason are a different case from those who find themselves among the “chosen few”, move away from home at a young age and then have their dreams and often their sense of self-worth broken down by the system which is supposed to help them reach their fullest potential. 
 

And I don’t accept that “kids were more resilient in the past”.  They were often broken and suffered in silence, and in many cases engaged in self-destructive behaciour.  And in other cases replicated the bullying behaviours as teachers themselves.  

That is a shockingly insensitive thing for any adult (let alone a teacher with professional duties - assuming that is who it was) to say to any teenager.  And the fact they continue to think it appropriate is a problem.