Lifeafterballet

You only get one chance to make a good first impression !! 
or something like that 🤣

If it’s a school you would really like to attend and they aren’t auditioning everyone face to face then I wouldn’t hesitate to seek the best possible photos, whether that is via a professional shoot or with a teachers guidance. 
Three years later when you are looking for a contract the photos you send may be the only opportunity you will have to get your foot in the studio. 
My dd and Ds had photos with Kate Frost. Highly recommend her. They were better quality than the schools recommended top photographer. And cheaper too 😊

I see that Elmhurst are off to the US and Japan to hold auditions this year too 😒 Is this financially driven ? I think yes. There are a couple of Gofundme pages in circulation on social media for their students I’ve noticed. 

3 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

Thankyou I don’t think full-time vocational training is going to work for my child. Just have that feeling might be wrong don’t think so though. 😁 It’s really good to hear a different path taken. 

It’s not the only route and it’s not for everyone. I deeply regret letting our daughter go at 11 but we were naive and then when it started to go wrong too deep into it to make a rational decision to withdraw. It just sadly prolonged all our agony and if we had been brave then maybe she would still love ballet and found her happy place sooner. 
I think boys are very different. I know of quite a few who have started later and gone on to keep their love of ballet intact and have a wonderful career. My son is a happy dancer 😀 Good luck with you decision, go with your heart 💜 

19 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

I agree about transparency. It’s all but impossible to work out destinations and results. So x girls graduated to the school’s upper school or y boys got a contract? How many were there from year 7? How many joined for the last year or two? How many received outside coaching? Impossible to work out. 
 

I think Tring’s new website is a good example of how all students are celebrated whether they end up in the performing arts studying or wherever else.   

Just ask a grad parent. They can decider the “ successfully secured a contract with ……….” which is in reality a trainee place that costs $ 10,000 a year. It’s still something to be celebrated and proud of but the next generation of parents need to know that the cost just rolls in after graduation for a majority of students. If others are honest and share then they can be prepared for the reality of the road ahead. I wish we had been warned. 
I like Trings approach to celebrating all their students 🥳 

Just now, NotadanceMa said:

@cotes du rhone !how often did he train a week until he went to vocational school?

He did 3 ballet classes a week in our local church hall, horrendous flooring 🤣. Then one associate class on a Saturday at Elmhurst for two years and then RBS SAs in Covent Garden for one year before getting a place at vocational school at 17.  He attended Elmhurst and Malvern summer schools too. We were very naive back then at to what was actually available out there and thought that the only way to train was in a full time setting like his sister. After travelling the world and meeting so many other ballet students and parents we now know that it isn’t the only route. I feel he wasn’t prepared physically to make the leap from 4 plus local classes a week to full time and he got a bit broken. But now we are more aware of what we should have done to help him prepare. 
If you have any questions I’m very happy to help 😀

9 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

I think it's very difficult Glowlight.

This is always this risk when demand massively outstrips supply. Sports, exclusive academic schools, prestigous University courses,top jobs.....anywhere it could be said that "you're lucky to be here " or that " we could replace you tomorrow " there is great pressure not to speak up about anything negative. A of fear of losing something you've worked hard for and guilt at seeming to lack gratitude make a very potent combination that often ensures silence from both students and parents.

There isn't an easy answer. Those who have been brave enough to speak out are deserving of all our support and I think the fact that more people are doing so is a very big step in the right direction.

Something that I think the whole of the dance world needs is more honesty and transparency. It is very difficult  as nobody wants to stamp on a child's dream  but more information about the reality of the profession is needed, and not just about the chances of getting into a vocational school, but what happens when you get out. What is the reality of grad destinations? How many of the apprenticeships and pre professional years with companies actually result in paid contracts? "Past students have performed with......." often sounds impressive but what does it really mean? How many past pupils, for how long and it what capacity. What is the outcome for the majority, not just the top few students in each year? 

I'd like to see more transparency around physical requirements. I know it is an incredibly sensitive issue but the reality is that, like some sports and other pursuits, there are specific physical requirements and sometimes "no" does mean ""no, rather than "not yet" .Often people just want to be kind, but I wish I had had more objective information when my DD was young.

On the other hand, I think another thing we parents can do is to share positive messages about our children's lives post dance school. There is a tendency to view a career with a classical company as the only successful outcome and if that doesn't happen we often slink away, feeling slightly embarrassed, ashamed even, because news of our DCs doesn't seem "worthy". It is though, and other parents need to hear it so they can make properly informed decisions. It also potentially helps empower students. We need our young peopke to know that there is more than one valid outcome, and that it isn't only the future principal dancers who matter and are worthy of decent treatment.

My DD is a teacher now by the way. She's completed her RAD teacher training, has recently opened her own school and loves working with young childre. I am very, very proud of her. There are some things I would do differently if I had my time again, but overall positives outweigh the negatives and I don't see this as failure. We need to make sure that young dancers know that they all matter and are not powerless - then those who may wish to control or abuse them will not have the power to do so.

 

You are so so right in every thing you have said. 
I found a lack of transparency and honesty during our daughter’s ballet journey. From the school and others who had gone before us. I wanted to share our story, the good and the bad. Like a majority of her year group she isn’t dancing professionally or at all actually. But is having an amazing time at University. It’s all she dreamed it would be and doesn’t regret her decision to stop ballet for one second. Most post vocational children don’t go onto have a full on professional career but that in no way means that they are unsuccessful or have failed. I don’t think the schools feel like this as they only seem too celebrate the small number of those who follow that pathway. And even that is a bit distorted or exaggerated in our experience too. The rest just disappear. In my children’s schools eyes, Ds is a wonderful, brag about success, and Dd doesn’t even get a mention on the grad destination list. Yet to us she is a survivor and a shining example of courage and determination to pursue another pathway. It’s the schools loss. They are missing a real opportunity to celebrate and be proud of all their students no matter what they choose to do post graduation. I would be happy to return to my children’s ballet school and talk honestly to prospective parents about our journey and outcome but I don’t think they would have me 🤣 Not attempting to portray perfection would I feel help them in improving the experience of their students. 

10 hours ago, Hawthorn said:

He’s just in his first term of lower school. 

My son didn’t start ballet til he was 12 and trained locally and with associate programs until he went to vocational school at 17. He is now a professional ballet dancer. I feel that personally, boys especially, don’t need to go away for lower school. Our daughter went away at 11 and our experience of that is on other threads 😢 There are lots of positive opportunities for children to train whilst living at home x

6 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

Hello all

 

my child is a new boarder at one of the main vocational schools doing ballet.

They have just experience systematic bullying by one of the existing students. Started small, leading to some IMHO some seriously not ok incidents.

It has been dealt with. I don’t know how it has been dealt with as I am not allowed to know, but I have been informed it has.

 There was no mention of any supportive care for my child following what has happened. I did ask and was told a chat with the house parents could be arranged.

Am I expecting too much from the school, is this fairly usual?

I have read their policies, they say one thing which does not seem to align with reality.

I cannot outline the incidents as they would make the school and my child recognisable on here, or the school year.

im trying to be very cautious. 

I’m so sorry for you and your child. I’m confused as to why you are not allowed to know how the school has dealt with the bullying. Also, why has there been no support offered ? In our experience the school played incidence / things down and liked to keep things very low key and in-house. You are correct that some policies don’t fit in with reality, take a look at the disordered eating one, if they have one, our schools was laughable. But we certainly weren’t laughing. 
I hope your child is ok, I really feel for you both xx

@Luke Jennings

You are so so right in everything you say.
It was our responsibility as patents to speak up, but sadly you feel so isolated and afraid that you might be the only ones that you don’t. And then that time had past and you are left like me sharing experiences anonymously on a forum and accomplishing nothing 🙁 

3 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

Anyone can report safeguarding concerns to the relevant LADO for their school’s area, you don’t need to wait. 

Thank you 😊 

In our line of work my husband and I are trained in safeguarding. But when your child enters a vocational school everything gets blurred. Those previously very clear decisions and actions become difficult as they come with consequences that may hurt your child further. So you become part of the problem. Our first experience was in the first 6 weeks. Now my brain fog has cleared I really can’t understand why we didn’t deal with it more firmly and not let it slide. Until you are faced with a situation in that environment you don’t know how you will act and if reported you trust that those caring for your child with do the right thing. Feelings of guilt and a child pleading with you not to call the school stop you reporting. If you break that trust you fear they will never be open and honest with you again causing further isolation and unhappiness. My heart goes out to all those that have been in this situation. 

@Luke Jennings you need to cast your net wider. 

32 minutes ago, Glissé said:

Exactly right, my dd is naturally a big perfectionist which most people may think is good for ballet but went against her in vocational training leading to further issues down the line. She’s a lot happier now away from ballet I think it became like an unhealthy addiction and being in that environment wasn’t right for her but it may be right for someone else’s dc. So  yes experiences can come down to the personality of the child but I think all the children in vocational training  experience some kind of set back at some point in their journey and as a parent you need to know what is right and what is wrong and to never be afraid of removing them from the environment no matter how prestigious the school is and ‘how lucky they are to be there”. As a family we fell into that trap I don’t think we realised how unhappy dd was when she was boarding away from home. Dd was concealing her emotions on the phone because she felt like she couldn’t give up her place because she felt so lucky to be there and as a parent you know your dc has worked so hard to be offered a place at the school so there’s almost this guilt if it doesn’t go to plan. We only wished we took dd away sooner. So if your dc has been unhappy for an extended period of time at a school and it isn’t just homesickness like we thought it was remove them from the environment. There is always somewhere else better suited to your dc or they may find happiness away from ballet like my dd. 

I totally agree with what you are saying. It’s so hard though when the thing that they love/loved the most makes them so unhappy 🙁 and they just won’t give it up. Like your Dd mine too has found happiness away from ballet. She should have left sooner and not prolonged the physical and mental torture. It’s so damaging to keep hammering away when you are a square peg trying to fit into that round hole. Recovery takes time too and requires a lot of support and patience. I’m pleased your Dd is happy 😊 

On a very positive note …….

The academic staff at my children’s vocational school were fabulous. Not only in their subject teaching but in their emotional support. None of them had a dancing background, they were there to just listen without judgement. 
They have remained in contact after graduation too 😊 Without that support my daughter would not be having the most wonderful time at University. They really went the extra mile and I feel are the unsung heroes that don’t get a mention on the graduation destination list. 

49 minutes ago, Jane said:

That the inspectors for Independent schools would scoff when your child and their peers raised issues and instead told them they should stop moaning as very lucky to be there - they were randomly picked for the meeting. 

When the school was inspected two children from each year group were selected by the leadership team to be interviewed. It certainly wasn’t going to be any of mine. They had a meeting prior to their interview and were coached on what questions they would be asked and their answers. The other children and parents completed an anonymous questionnaire about the school. We and others were honest about our experiences every time but the school always came up smelling of roses 🤔 The AD and principal were always very charming, helpful and approachable. But deep down I sadly don’t think they have the first clue as to what goes on in the ballet studio or what their pupils have to endure. 

I think it’s really hard for parents of a 10/11 year old to make the decision as to whether vocational boarding school is right for them. 
If you had asked me in 2012 when my daughter was in year 7 we would have given similar reviews to the posters above. Year 8 would have been good too. I remember the houseparent on that first drop off saying that it was going to be a sleep over with rules. And it was fun in the beginning. The girls made friends and we believed they were well cared for. There seemed to be no bullying, nastiness or issues with body image or food. 
I notice how there aren’t many posters of experience of the later years of lower school 🤔 The 9/10 and 11. The years when the serious business of ballet steps in and the assessments/assessing out/competitiveness kicks in. When the dynamics in the ballet class change as new children start and others depart. We were silent in these years. Quietly dealing with issues, smiling outwardly but inwardly crying 😢 I know I sound dramatic and full of bitterness but my daughter was successful if social media was to be believed. It’s hard to tell the truth. Fear of reprisals from the school and the ballet teacher if you go outside to seek help and talk about your experience. How can you as a parent persuade your daughter to increase her BMI above 16 when she gets so much praise and rewards for being like that. I say 16 because that is the schools cut off point for being taken off dance and being made to sit and watch the class instead. It’s cruel and damaging and does not help recovery. Specialist help outside the school was needed and she didn’t get it and we weren’t brave enough to take her out. She would have hated us. She loved ballet. It wasn’t just us that struggled. At some point they all did. Sort of like a silent epidemic. As one poster pointed out, there are very few lower school ballet boarding schools around the world. The majority start at 16. 11 is young.  
I don’t envy today’s parents making that decision. It’s tough. I just regret ours and wish I had been given a balanced view of others experiences before we said yes. 

@Balletmummy18 mentioned kindness. Last week I attended an NHS training day and we had a lecture on Incivility or rudeness and how this affects individuals and a teams performance. I think it resonates through all professions and teams and ballet schools and companies could learn a lot from it.

1 hour ago, Julsgalaxy said:

Thanks so much for replying…that’s wonderful your son is dancing professionally now. Do you mind me asking what you feel was the cause of the mental scars….was it the hard training or the environment? I can totally imagine that it’s damaging in ways and that must be hard to deal with xx 

Both. My daughter said that for 8 years her waking thought and her last before sleep was of ballet. Every action, meal, glance in the mirror, there it was haunting her. It becomes an obsession, an addiction. Supported by the environment. Fear too, of change, of injury, of being judged, of failure 😞 

Sometimes I catch sight of myself in a full length mirror, eeek, I pull a face at what I see, then I pull on my clothes and move on with my day. I can’t imagine looking at myself every day and feeling disappointed with my reflection, comparing myself constantly to the others in the class. The constant struggle to fit your square peg into that round hole. To push your body to do things that it’s just not designed to do. To fight against what Mother Nature intended for you instead of embracing growth. Every day from year 9 on was a struggle. We felt unprepared and unsupported during our journey x 

My daughter attended vocational ballet school from 11 to 19. We are not from a dancing background and were very naive about the whole thing. At 10 she very quickly went from one/two local ballet classes a week to JAs and then full time boarding. If we knew then what we know now we wouldn’t have accepted that offer and got on that rollercoaster. We didn’t do our homework and regret that decision. Our Facebook and Instagram posts and photos of amazing opportunities and exciting successes hide the reality of our day to day experience. Although today she is a beautiful, confident, resilient and able young woman there are physical and mental scars that will live with her for a long time to come. In our experience she is not a minority. As a previous poster rightly said, people are less willing or able to share their less favourable experiences. We are happy too and to help others make the right decision for their children. 
We also have a son who went to the same vocational school at 17. Did the same local classes then associates and SAs. Personally I feel that not going at 11 as his sister did was better. He was less affected and didn’t have his love of ballet sucked out of him in the three years he was there. Although that first year was awful 😢. He is now a professional ballet dancer in a National company and is loving it 😊 I personally feel that we should have kept our daughter at home and accessed associate classes, private coaching and intensives. Nurturing her love of ballet and building up her self esteem and confidence not having it chipped away at 😔 

I think the key is to ask the right questions, listen to the answers and go with your gut feelings. Don’t get overwhelmed with the prestigiousness. Choose what feels right for your daughter and your family x

On 08/09/2021 at 15:10, abitwornout said:

In case anyone has missed Elmhurst’s 2021 graduate destinations. A huge Well done to them all xxx

 

https://elmhurstballetschool.org/en/graduate-destinations/

 

Congratulations to the class of 2021 🎉🥳🍾🥂 I hope they have all managed to get to their contracts in the US and EU. 
My Dd was the class of 2020, the “ ghost “ year. The one that will not feature on the schools website graduate destination or celebration list. Sadly the majority never had the opportunity to pursue a ballet career that they had trained and sacrificed so much for. Even after auditioning them the associate company didn’t give a 2020 graduate an opportunity 😢 But some happily did gain contracts and are doing very well 🥳 

The rest, including my Dd, have moved on to new adventures and opportunities that they never dreamed of. They will be fantastic in whatever they choose to do, I just wish that it was congratulated and celebrated not forgotten 😔

Am I right in thinking that RBS publish how many of their JAs or year 7 WL pupils make it to grad year ? 
Do Elmhurst do this ?

Is it a requirement to make public this information ? 
 

https://www.scottishballet.co.uk/about-us/careers/male-dancer-audition?fbclid=IwAR2huX0Sk2pipdJWBNmvSBGtdt6WoSdkHkhHbl4xKYSNIiKQssczTa_xwNY
 

and this one ☝️ 

Elmhurst offer a very small choice of two A levels along side a Level 6 Trinity Diploma in Professional Dance. If you are wanting the A levels as a back up to gain entry to university then it’s tough with just the two. The Diploma gives some UCAS points but it really depends on the degree course you are applying for. The academic teachers were brilliant, very small classes and really supportive. The school itself is mainly classical ballet focused. Accommodation for the first two years and all meals for all three years are provided. Birmingham is a fun city and cheaper alternative to London x 

55 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

That's not good CDR but I think the companies have all been in a very precarious position and, indeed, they still are.

 

I saw both BRB and NB in June and I think they used students in a lot of corps roles so that they could maintain cast bubbles.  

 

If the world was normal would they usually have expected some sort of payment?  I remember seeing Xander Parish, Alex Campbell, Joe Caley and James Barton with BRB during midscale when they were all still students - would they have been performing for the experience or would they have had short term contracts do you know?

 

I know NB have recently held auditions because I saw the notice on the website but I do not know how many dancers they were looking to contract.

Ds did 2 shows and toured, Dd did 5 shows and toured. They were given money for food and the transport and hotel was paid for. They also provided pointe shoes for Dd. But no wage, it was for the experience 😒 

I’m trying to follow this thread but when it started on about equity etc I got lost 🤣

All graduating students have dreams and aspirations but the reality is that they need a job, any job. We aimed for our Ds and Dd just to get their foot on the first rung of the ladder. Nothing too prestigious, just somewhere that they could dance in and be happy, a better environment that the school had provided. This would prove to them and us that maybe the pain had been worth it in the end. One found their happy dancing place and the other found greater happiness in stopping. Covid and Brexit has destroyed the careers of two generations of graduates before they even started and countless others who have lost contracts 😢 I feel that the British ballet companies could have done more. And that doesn’t mean increasing the use of students in their productions free of charge. Both mine were used multiple times in productions, pre and post graduation, but weren’t good enough to be paid. 

Still available 😊