Ballet Saga

The accommodation is the main issue with ENBS. Schools with boarding facilities can help enormously with the funding for housing. Schools paid for with a student loan obviously can help too. Luckily wherever you train in England, London is very easily accessible. We live in the north and my son is travelling to see The Winter’s Tale at ROH on Monday (easily there and back in a day). That’s good to hear they will be building an extension. It’s long overdue. Other schools do have better facilities and it’s something I think lets ENBS down. I’m sure the students will be glad of the change.

Cheapest accommodation for ENB school is around £8000 a year but that’s probably a low estimate! You’re looking at least £10000. Then all food on top. My son was offered ENB but the cost is too much. Especially since the studios aren’t the best and you then have to pay for food on top of expensive accommodation. I’m sure it’s a great school but there are others with the same training and much better options for funding and accommodation, and better facilities.

I’m sure there is never enough spaces for everyone they deem appropriate for the associates scheme (I don’t say school because I would see it as separate to the associates). It could come down to very small things the whys and why nots of who gets a place and who gets a waitlist place.

What I said was taken as a ‘sweeping criticism’ and caused some parents to become defensive, sadly. I’m completely aware that family life is expensive (especially as a single parent on a low income). So, I maybe have an extra understanding of that and I haven’t let that mean my child doesn’t see a performance of what they’re aspiring to be in the future. There are plenty of ways round it (as explained by a few in this thread). I can imagine standing in line in Central Park must have cost a lot of money and I won’t be doing anything like that in the foreseeable (or ever due to cost!) I haven’t been on holiday for 6 years, but I’ve managed to see dance performances. It always comes back to the fact that we want our children to have jobs. It is still extraordinary to me that parents of children who are training don’t take them to the ballet. And if the child shows no interest then why are the parents spending so much on training? (And I don’t mean weekly classes at the local dance school, we all know it’s more than that). I really don’t understand why parents get defensive when you suggest they should see a dance performance with their child, and that’s it’s important for their child. I can only imagine its guilt?

Just like the link I put above. There is a Q&A after the performance. That’s not unusual. Spectacle doesn’t have to mean big, expensive etc. I meant it in terms of something unusual. A big theatre ticket doesn’t have to cost a fortune and nor does a small theatre ticket. It’s been established there are many ways to see a dance performance on a smaller budget. If you want a company to have many dancers (hopefully one of our own children), then we can’t expect to pay pittance all the time to see a ballet. It feels to me that this is what it all boils down to. What do you actually want? Small intimate performances, more company contracts, cheap tickets? You really can’t have it all! Something will give. Personally I enjoy all sorts of performances. I like to sit away from the stage sometimes so that I can’t hear the thud of feet landing, or see the sweat pouring down the dancers faces. It’s more enjoyable for me to be a spectator rather than being ‘amongst’ the performance. I have seen big displays of stage sets and not enjoyed them. Sometimes I have enjoyed what they add to a performance. The more performances I see (an eclectic mix) the more I enjoy the ballet, and the more I feel in touch with what my child is training to do. Which leaves me in awe of his hard work and determination! I wouldn’t want to miss out on that! Again this is all deflection anyway.

It would be lovely if companies could engage more of an audience. But how are they supposed to fund that if we don’t go and see the ballet and encourage our children to? It all sounds like deflection talking about how we can get ballet to engage more people. While all the while there’s been lots of arguments here as to why students in training don’t need to see the ballet. If we don’t expect even the future ballet dancers to watch, how can we expect anyone else? Why does something have to become a spectacle before we’re willing to engage with it?

The thing is how can we expect to change things up if we don’t even encourage our own trainee dancers to go and see the ballet? (Or even see it as important for their training). You can’t have it both ways. Plus many people go and see the classics (Swan Lake, Nutcracker, just like they go and see the classic plays, especially Shakespeare). You can’t really expect a ballet company to do Swan Lake or Nutcracker in Central Park. What I see a lot of is people complaining about ballet becoming too full of tricks and the artistry being lost. What you’re suggesting alludes to that (although I know it’s probably not what you mean), but to get the attention of the ‘masses’ this is probably what would work. But then it takes away from what ballet is so is that a fair pay off? A good place to start would be to bring ballet to small children in schools (like some schools do already) and for the art form to be appreciated, not for it to drastically change to suit short attention spans. I think companies do a lot to promote different types of ballet. There is new material all the time and smaller companies touring with interesting pieces. https://northernballet.com/theatre/island-movements This is one. It’s not so easy just to ‘plot up’ and do a ballet, like a play. Flooring for one would be an issue. And space. And expense. Only the bigger companies would likely manage to do that.

I don’t think anyone would suggest only the ballet community can support the art form. Of course it needs to come from elsewhere too. And it mainly does. I’ve just remembered that BRB did a piece (partly in trainers if I am right!) at the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony 2022. Can’t get much more out of a theatre and modern (trainers!) than that! Can we please stop trying to compare ballet to science, plumbing etc. We all know there is no comparison. And we all know that the commitment to our children’s training is spending lots of time involved in it. Hence why many are on this forum! Visiting a lab is not the same (but taking our children who have an interest in science to museums about it is…) Would anyone have an issue with that? As to culture. Well it’s up to us as parents to introduce our children to that.

My son watched this and then I watched it with him and I was surprised it didn’t put him off! He was just fascinated! (It was an eye opener!)

That’s a good idea

I suppose the difference with ballet is how you have to stay in some form of training while waiting for a job (to keep up fitness and technique). So another motivator to go to a graduate scheme rather than get a regular job and keep auditioning. Yes the schemes won’t turn away paying customers! But they will know that most of the graduates won’t get a job, or not a job that is sustainable without outside help.

I’m sure that’s a rarity. Whatever your talent you still need training and to experience the reality of it. Maybe it’s a bit of a myth what you’re saying? Who says there is a need to panic? (Can’t people handle someone’s opinion?) I said further up that a couple of live performances a year is surely a good thing. No one is saying go and see ALL the ballets. I also said go and see all dance. If your child isn’t interested in seeing live performances, is this really the route for them? Plus we moan about the lack of jobs but many seem to think that it’s someone else’s responsibility, rather than us the audience. It’s a responsibility of us all. How can I in good conscience moan about the lack of jobs if I don’t go and see live performances? And yes if your child takes a SERIOUS interest in ballet you should learn to appreciate the art and support them. Nowhere did I say not seeing live performances will stop you gaining employment, but I would go as far to say as it will hinder your training. Or at the very least you will lose out on something very beneficial.

I love seeing my child watch a live performance. He is mesmerised (and still, which he has a hard time being!) and it makes it very clear how much he loves ballet. Which makes all the sacrifices worth it. I don’t know if my child wasn’t interested I would be willing to do all I do when it comes to his training. I think there is a link here to the amount of graduates and jobs available.

There are barriers to many things in life. Including the training. But somehow we’ve made that happen for our kids? Where you live is a barrier (but then many go away to foreign places for holidays travelling hundreds of miles…) Maybe the truth is that a lot of families are disinterested. Obviously not all and yes it can be difficult.

Everyone could do more. Schools, parents. I understand families can only do their best but there are far too many who don’t even see it as important or understand why it is. It’s bottom of the list. I’m very low income but I have managed because I see the importance of it. How can I expect my child to be a professional dancer without him seeing live performances, and also supporting live performances? I can very clearly see how it has enhanced his training. Plus if he didn’t enjoy watching a ballet I would be saying well what’s the point in training to perform in one then?

That’s good they got to see all the BRB performances! It really doesn’t have to be expensive to see a live performance. I’ve managed it and I’m very low income!

I agree with Pas de Quatre. How can a dancer in training know what’s expected of them if they don’t see live performances? It’s an integral part of their training. I wonder how many successful ballet dancers didn’t see performances regularly? Obviously it’s hard to know but I doubt it’s many. It also doesn’t have to be expensive. Seeing all sorts of dance is beneficial. A lot of the schools have graduate companies and it’s not expensive to go and see them. It’s also supporting the schools and companies that’s important. It might be a sweeping statement to you but I have met a lot of people with children who are in training and I can count on one hand the amount of them who bother taking their child to a live performance. And for a lot it’s nothing to do with being financially able.

Yet they want to become a dancer. Madness!

Not naive at all. I know many families who go on long holidays etc and a myriad of other luxurious activities but moan about the cost of a ballet ticket! Which can be very cheap. And not just ballet, any dance. I’m sorry if I hit a nerve with you but that’s your life and you don’t need to defend anyone else’s life. Can we just be real and admit that there are lots of people that could easily go and see performances and don’t? I don’t understand why people get so defensive about this issue. How can you be serious about your child becoming a ballet dancer and not take them to watch dance?

If you live in London you have the opportunity to get last minute tickets and there are definitely ways and means to see the ballet cheaply. Also there are more dance performances in general to go and see. Which is important for a dancer in training.

Yes it’s great that some are shown in the cinema now. Some performances cost the same as the cinema if you can get to them. It should be a priority to at least see a couple of live performances a year surely? Sometimes it’s down to priorities isn’t it? It also doesn’t always have to be the Royal Ballet etc. Some smaller companies tour performances and the ticket price is very reasonable. I’m seeing a short performance in June for just £12.50 (and that’s all tickets at that price).

I find this extraordinary that many families who have children training to be ballet dancers, very rarely see the ballet or much dance at all! I know so many who pay out 100s for training and extras but never take their child to the ballet…And moan about the cost of a ticket! How can they know what level is expected if they don’t see it for themselves? And how can they not support the ballet?

I’ve heard of some graduates doing more than one graduate year. And now more schemes like that are popping up. So even more schools making promises!

So too many schools then? Too many opportunities? Just a thought! I’m sure there are many talented dancers but the companies must pick the very best. Maybe the goal posts have changed and expectations are higher.

Too many schools is also part of the problem leading to too many graduates. I wonder how many of the 950 who auditioned were actually at the standard that’s needed? Just a thought as I have no idea! But it is something that crosses my mind. Does that skew the impression that there are no jobs?