BalletBoysDad

17 minutes ago, AllAboutTheJourney said:

I have tried not to get involved in this discussion again because – let’s face it – no one should have to justify their own family’s decision to anyone else but the tone of some posts is getting a bit condescending.

 

I have said many times that this is a very useful forum (and this discussion is a great example of it) because parents of younger children can learn from those who have been through things before – and my opinion on that hasn’t changed. But just because a particular school or pathway isn’t right for a particular child doesn’t mean it won’t be right for another. Perhaps we could just bear that in mind.

 

Whether to accept any vocational place (for people who are personally in that position and not just speculating about it) is a very personal decision based on a huge range of family/financial/geographic/personality and other factors (and certainly not one which will be made lightly or naively by anyone who has ever read any of the threads here!).

 

While I do not doubt that things may have been different in the past (even the very recent past), anyone who has been involved in the vocational audition process this year will be fully aware that what RBS is offering for any incoming Y7 is a 3 year course. Like it or not, at least they are being transparent about that now. 

As @AllAboutTheJourneyjust said, anyone who has been offered WL this year has been told implicitly on more than one occasion that it is a 3 year programme, and there are enormous consequences and considerations for what happens from Y10. That has been reiterated by the artistic director on zoom, in email offers, at open days, in the actual contract.  No one will have made the decision to accept the places for their children, wether boy or girl, lightly or by being ill-informed. 

3 hours ago, Kate_N said:

Warning OFF-TOPIC 🤭

I’ve just come back from an international performing arts academic conference in which the working language was English.  I attend this conference most years, all over the world, and I’m always struck by the taken-for-granted high level proficiency in English by all my international colleagues, often from countries we’d perceive as having quite “poor” educational resources.

 

Many countries introduce second and third languages in primary school, and require proficiency in at least one other language for matriculation at the end of a child’s school education.

 

That we don’t, although the UK education system is one of the best in the world, is increasingly an ethical betrayal of our children, in my opinion. I have mediocre German, and a scratching of French, and every time I come home from this particular conference I look at my schedule and wonder if I could squeeze in another language or develop my competency in the ones I have. It’s a real problem in the UK for our young people in so many ways!

I completely agree.  Our education system totally lets down our young people with languages.  WAY OFF TOPIC HERE, but I am sure Brexit will hardly encourage further government investment in European languages from a young age, especially with barriers to freedom of movement etc....

I'm always amazed by the level of language proficiency (frequently more than 2 languages) in other countries at such a young age.  Having spent time living in China and Hong Kong, I have seen first hand many young children and teenagers perfectly equipped with language proficiency to explore educational opportunities abroad in 2nd languages from quite a young age. There is also the added consideration that the language proficiency isn't just to 'get by' academically, its also to be able social integrate and 'live' in the host country.  A young UK student living in (eg) Russia might 'just about get by' in the dance studio, but living in the country would be extremely challenging, and the academics would be nigh-on impossible.  That would be very different for a Russian with even moderate English language proficiency coming to the UK...

That's why I raised the point that RBS must get an overwhelming amount of international applicants due to tuition in English, that sees a world-class training centre attract world-class talent.  Yes, I completely get that IF its world-class, the training on offer from the younger ages (for example, WL entry in Y7) should benefit domestic students to a much greater statistical extent going into Y10 and upper school than it currently does. 

I'm not even sure this information is available, but it would be fascinating to know the domestic-to-international applicant ratio for a number of the world's most 'known schools' and I have a feeling it would shed light on why a domestic UK student has an increasingly challenging job gaining upper school entry to English schools.

8 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

And it’s what your DS wants more than anything … we need to give them that chance if they really want … 

 

I’ve been with WL for nearly a year and my eyes were opened before the start. I knew what to expect.. the rollercoaster .. the flavour of the month one week then not the next.. thr competitiveness encouraged by the teachers and the “ questionable”teaching methods at times… my views on the school have not changed . 
 

My DS loves his life there ( on the whole) despite many ups and downs.. and my feelings don’t come into play. As long as he is still passionate and in it for the right reasons then I’m happy to support his journey. Child comes first and all that. 
I’m sure your DS will have a wonderful journey there. 

Good point! I totally had that in mind, but didn’t put in in words. I completely forgot to say that, although as parents (or teachers) we do the research and ‘find the paths’ it’s our children (or students) who must walk them, and most importantly WANT to walk them. My DS is going no where he doesn’t want to go, and can’t wait to get there. 

I must admit though, (shared purely in the spirit of conversation) it does feel like parents of children who are at or are going to WL sometimes appear to be badged as a bit short sighted or naïve in their research. Like they’ve just ‘fallen for the name’ and haven’t dug any deeper.  
 

Ask me in 3 years time, and I may well feel very differently, but at this moment in time I’m very comfortable with my DS going to WL. I did for a long time very much like another vocational school, and really liked their associates programme. We devoted quite a lot of time to the main school through invitation to participate in one of their Christmas productions with a major ballet company and shortly realised that the teacher and staff really didn’t like us or our DS, and frankly treated us rather terribly. Our face ‘did not fit’ and the feeling was reciprocal. But I’m grateful for the negative experience to know that it wouldn’t have been the right path, and to some degree we dodged a bullet. I know many people having a wonderful time in that school and wish them well. But know confidently that it is not the school for us.
 

We explored a number of international options, and although the aptitude was there for some of these schools, the local language was an enormous barrier. We considered not going to vocational school at all, but after talking to parents of boys who tried this route, some later regretted it as the toxic bullying of high school made some boys give up ballet for an easier school life, which is desperately sad. Others had no issues at all, so it’s often a case of weighing up the risks. 

Having tried both English and Russian styles of ballet, we quickly realised that our DS is better studied to the English style, and it’s not necessarily a case of which class is the most rigorous or physically demanding.
 

I would also whole heartedly agree that ballet is not the be all and end all, and if it ‘doesn’t work out as planned’ it can still serve as a route to many other creative paths of study, or something entirely different. 
 

So my point is really just to say that I feel confident that we have arrived at WL through a lot of research, discussion and leg work centred on what feels right for us as a family. Not because of a naïve belief that it’s the only route to take. 

A fact that is possibly overlooked is language proficiency. Many international students have strong or adequate English proficiency that will no doubt attract a huge amount of talent to audition for WL. My DS auditioned for Paris Opera Ballet; was invited to a live audition via photos, passed their facility/physio test in the morning, was invited back in the afternoon for ‘finals’ with the final 18, but he wasn’t selected in the final 9. Not seeking a ‘reason’, we told a number of U.K. teachers familiar with the school, and even some who went there, and most said that they are pretty much a french school for french children in the younger years. The regular school curriculum is all in french, and they take seriously the fact that there are annual ‘exams’ for the following year, so don’t want international students struggling through a year only to be assessed out and lose a valuable year of academic education. I was told by someone who went to the school they only started to see international applicants in older teenage years. Vienna also said that the curriculum doesn’t switch to (or accommodate) English until 14, so German proficiency is essential to fulfil the needs of the curriculum. I believe it’s the same at Dutch Academy. So to some degree they are all ‘home grown’ until they open up in upper years. I assume it’s safe to say that the average U.K. student won’t have strong grasp of several European languages to make multiple applications.  Where as English is much more successfully taught in other countries, and that opens up Royal to a much larger volume of international applicants. 
 

Just a thought, not a ‘set in stone’ opinion. 
 

3 hours ago, Ballerinamama said:

Thank you so much for the info! Can I ask, is it pretty much a given that they need to be flat in box/middle splits? 

My DS had excellent (though not necessary) box splits in October when we submitted our application to WL/MA’s. After a rapid and gruelling growth spurt, growing 10cm by the time of reaching finals in March, they were VERY far from perfect. I wouldn’t personally worry at all about flexibility right now. It comes and goes with growth spurts and for some is always a challenge and work in progress. Though not necessarily a barrier. 

27 minutes ago, NYC said:

This is so helpful, thank you. You mention TikTok, did all the kids have devices and phones with them? Or is it pretty digital free?

As @Mumof1said, most children seemed to have them. Fortunately, they had to be given in to house parents in the evenings (so they could sleep device-free) and given back to the children in the mornings. They were strictly not allowed in studios and only for free time. It was good to know they could call home if feeling a little home sick. Although my DS was having such a busy and enjoyable time, I’d consider myself lucky if I got 1 text massage a day 😂 

54 minutes ago, NYC said:

My DS just got accepted off the WL W3 waitlist, for residential. Can anyone tell me what the kids do when not dancing? Are there structured activities like football and movies? 

Congratulations 🎉 I asked my DS is he remembered what that age group did last summer. He seemed to remember short structured activities like some kind of treasure hunt in the grounds, a tik tok challenge, some kind of movie quiz. But it all sounded very relaxed and perfect for ‘down time’ after a full busy day. There was the opportunity to play football, and they had a relaxed ‘pizza night’ mid week. White Lodge has very beautiful grounds, and is the perfect place for the children to ‘hang out’ on a lovely summer evening. 

6 hours ago, meadowblythe said:

Unless things have changed dramatically, I would suggest that not all dance schools offer the widest, or most rigorous, of academic educations.  Some do and are proud of it.  

 

When my DS was assessed out at the end of year 9, one of the biggest problems when moving to another vocational school,  was that he was so far behind academically and he had passed 2 selective grammar school entrance exams with flying colours.  

 

If potential parents place as much importance on academics as dance, pick your school with care.

I wouldn’t disagree at all that there are stronger academic options out there. I imagine that’s one of the biggest dilemma’s in deciding between an academic or vocational route. But maybe personal circumstance plays a significant part of the decision making. If I look at the area we have just relocated from, the regular high school my DS was offered was appalling, by far the worst school for miles. The ‘best’ high school was so oversubscribed there was zero chance of him going there, and would require a £million+ house to be in with any chance. The local private options were in some cases inferior to the local schools, and better ones further afield came with no scholarships, unlike MDS. The curriculum tended to often be very thin on arts. 
 

I was more making the point that I am personally comfortable (this side of the journey to come) to assume that my DS will still have a quality (though not specifically broad, as you rightly point out) academic educational offering alongside the vocational ballet content.
 

Reading back, I see I exaggerated the claim that the vocational schools come with strong academics, as I couldn’t actually validate that (apologies). But I’m comfortable with the ‘promise’ of the education on offer of the school he will be joining. It is certainly superior (on paper) to the education that was available to us locally, and I very much hope it’s a reality. 

1 hour ago, Balletbuds80 said:

A great point. Do you know if academics are taken into consideration when places are allocated? My DD is not below expectations on anything but wondered if this information is a requirement to the application process at any schools (in your experience). 

As others have said, academic tests are only to see where a child is at and what additional help or support they may or may not need. My DS doesn’t currently meet particularly high academic attainment levels, but that wasn’t a barrier to entry as it’s based purely on ability. I’m really encouraged about the academics on offer and i think the curriculum will really help my DS achieve better (and more enjoyable) academic results.
 

Interestingly, as auditions play out, opinions about particular schools can evolve and I think the children definitely get clear vibes about what they like and don’t like. In my own personal opinion, (maybe controversially) I’ve noticed that associate programmes for schools aren’t necessarily carbon copies of the main vocational school. I learned that the hard way (and would happily elaborate via DM) so I think it’s important to check out the actual school, visit open days etc, to sense if it’s a natural fit. 

I've settled on the personal opinion that the vocational schools are accompanied by very high quality academics, so the highly focused dance path is 'in addition to' a regular academic education, rather than 'instead of'. My DS will be starting vocational school in September,  he is extremely excited to be going.  But I am very open to the fact that even within the focused dance environment, there is still plenty of scope to develop a passion for art, science, history, anything, within the academic curriculum.  So even if the dance 'doesn't turn out' it will have been accompanied with a solid education for GCSE.  Yes, there is always various elements of 'risk', but I know my child is creative, so there are many other career paths that could be followed within the arts and creative industries if the dance doesn't go as anticipated.

On 29/05/2022 at 14:53, Ballerinamama said:

14 places is more promising. Thanks for this.

I was always under the impression that more spaces become available as each year progresses. For example (totally made up numbers here) there could be a very modest intake of 4 new Y4 kids, then when they ‘rise’ to Y5, they make a lot more spaces available for new Y5 intake. So 4 become (eg) 8, with 4 new students joining. Then when they ‘rise’ to Y6, that 8 might become 12/14 etc, again making capacity for some new Y6 intake. If they really want someone, they’ll find a space for them. Otherwise , if you didn’t get in in Y4, you'd have no chance of joining later (which really isn’t the case). That’s just what I’ve been told along the way. 

4 hours ago, balletdad01 said:

Hi everyone 

I am new here. I am a ballet dad from  New Zealand we are heading to Netherlands for a few months over June/ July  to see family.

It is a Bit last minute as we just booked the tickets as the borders just re-opened But Does anybody know of any summer schools still open  for a 9 year old over that period in Europe? We are happy to travel have family in london. Just want her to experience something a bit different, learn some new stuff and enjoy herself.

Thank you

Ryan

 

I enrolled my DS for the Danish Royal Ballet Summer School in Copenhagen. He is 10, and will be 11 at enrolment. Their ‘kids programme’ has three levels, from beginner, to intermediate and advanced. In the grand scheme of weekly tuition costs, it’s incredibly reasonable. An Airbnb and a week of tuition was the same price as the average ‘known programme’. YDA in Shepherd’s Bush is a great option. It’s a lovely nurturing school and the teaching is excellent. Malvern Ballet Seminars is also very good. It’s very friendly and great fun for the kids, whilst the quality of teaching is very high. 

18 minutes ago, Raquelle said:

Yes I think they took very few that year. Only 2 year 6 girls, 1 year 5 and 2 year 4s in Bath....following year a lot more got in so I think maybe the pandemic affected numbers a lot....Good luck everyone...we got a no in year 4 then a yes year 6 - so don't give up if it's not a yes straight away. The audition is a lovely experience in itself we always treated it as a nice day out and who doesn't want a day off school! X 

That year was definitely a tough year numbers-wise. I think it was clear Covid really did put a massive pressure on the size of the intake. I was glad to see (in Birmingham), the creation of a boys-only group which saw a bigger increase in offers for places starting in September 2021. Hopefully, with a large proportion of current Y6 boys, that materialises into a number of fresh spaces for this September. 

44 minutes ago, Fairydust said:

From memory, there were three other year 5 boys that were successful that year, they joined the other Birmingham JA class that my DD was in.  They would all have been in the same class in line with previous years but were split in to two due to COVID restrictions. 

Agreed though that they will only take who they like, regardless of gender.

I am refering to Y5 entry that was supposed to start in September 2020, but was postponed to January 2021.  That year, Birmingham took around 6 or 7 new girls (over Y4 and Y5) and my DS.  They formed their own independent group, separate to the 'existing' JA's, where 3 boys were already in the other group.  I believe those boys all became JA's in Y4.  That's my understanding.  Though due to covid, it was a very small intake that year.  They took far more boys in Y6 (September 2021 entry) as they started a specific boy-only class.

2 hours ago, MissEmily said:

@MedoraNowhere near, no. Boys are much more likely to be offered a place.

The year my DS was successful, he was the only boy offered a space in Birmingham. The other 6 or 7 spaces went to girls. Its clear that there will be substantially fewer boys applying than girls, but as a proportion of spaces offered, I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s easier or more likely a boy will be offered a place. Just my personal opinion. It much might vary substantially from centre to centre. 

3 minutes ago, Dancedreamer said:

My DS got a y7 place at Elmhurst and I'm a crying covid mess. He will be over the moon. 

We are over the moon for you all too 🎉 

The deadline to accept White Lodge places is 5th April, so maybe then they will know if anyone can get a space off the waiting list etc, before moving onto allocation of MA places.

2 hours ago, Waverley said:

A massive well done to your DSs @BalletBoysDadand @Julsgalaxy - fantastic news. And commiserations to everyone who didn't get the news they'd hoped for - it really is such a bittersweet time. 

 

My DD got wait list for White Lodge - she's really happy as she feels like she did well to get that far so that's all that matters. She only wanted to try for that one school so the rollercoaster is over for us at least!

 

I said at the start of this thread that I was going into the process with mixed emotions and I still feel exactly the same. It's been a fun ride and we had fantastic experiences at all three WL auditions, some great weekends away together and both DD and I made some lovely new friends.

 

I'm glad she went for it, but I'm also glad we get to keep her at home for a little longer and that our family dynamic doesn't have to change right now. I'm also glad she will be able to stay here to do her last year of primary school - with all the fun stuff that entails. Hopeful for a place in MA's as she's very much enjoyed the last few years in JA's - hope we don't have to wait too long for those results now! 

I totally get that its a bittersweet time.  My DS made finals for Paris (their 6 month stage/internship) but didn't get a final offer and was really disappointed to get 'so close'.  He got a straight 'no' from Tring.  He got a 'yes' for YDA and a 'yes' for WL. Its a real mixed bag of results, the same with summer intensives. Each one had its own emotional reaction of ups and downs.  I feel its a gruelling process for everyone, but I am always in awe of these kids for going through this process at such a young age!  Especially the really important bit of learning how to handle disappointment and moving forwards. We know wonderful dancers who didn't progress past prelims, who got yes for this school, no for that school, and every combination imaginable.  But their individual journeys won't be defined from this one moment in time or the decision of a specific school.  

23 minutes ago, balletboy8 said:

Congratulations - a big well done and richly deserved 😃

Thank you, and we are thrilled for you and your DS too 😊 🎉 

It was a ‘yes’ for my DS. We are naturally over the moon. Yesterday was a strange and overwhelming day as we processed the wonderful news whilst feeling genuine disappointment that friends along the way hadn’t got the results they wanted, but have all done immensely well to get finals not just at WL but at other vocational schools too. 

7 hours ago, Nicky73 said:

Congratulations for YDA! What a fantastic school it seems. My DS also in there (I think we chatted a couple of times?;) Enjoy!

I am so impressed with the school, it has so many wonderful aspects! I hope your DS had a great time too. 😊 

12 minutes ago, Boys_can_dance said:

Can someone please confirm that week 1 starts 19. July, so on a Tuesday? Seems odd to me?  

They would ‘register’ (check in) on the Monday. Last summer, we dropped them off mid to late afternoon on the day before the start day. 

14 hours ago, Lilidance said:

As we had a no what other ballet intensive in the il do you recommend ?

I would also highly recommend Malvern. My DS had a really enjoyable week. There was a presentation for the parents to watch, and I was amazed how much they had done in a week. The quality and content of the course was exceptionally high. 

A ‘yes’ for my DS, week 1