SwissBalletFan

3 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

I'm not sure quite what you're trying to say about translated content of worldwide companies. Surely the Russian companies linked to above are comfortable with the term "Principal" in their English language websites? We're going back a little now, but my old English language Bolshoi programmes consistently used the term. I don't think there was any cultural imperialism going on there as they were most assuredly not translated by a native English speaker! Or have I misunderstood?

I guess I am trying to say (English is not my mother tongue) that, if a Russian ballerina calls herself a prima ballerina, then it is all

part of the culture, if appropriate for her situation of course.

The Russian companies translate to allow for UK equivalents I guess, so that is how the programmes come in.

In the UK it seems every ballet reference is around Margaret  Hookham as the prima ballerina (assoluta). For Russian, Italian ballerinas especially, I think you should understand it is terms that are very often used by them for

the media, and galas when translated. So, I am not being snobby when I say that although you may be a specialst in writing about ballet, those ballerinas who actually dance, they themselves use the term eschewing Principal Dancer as western translation appropriate for contemporary specialists. 

Dear Lizbie, thank you for such an eloquent reply. We are no longer off topic and have been subtly moved to another thread where this discussion is more appropriate.

I understand your points, however would say that there is a marked difference about reviews that are in english about english language based companies, rather than non-English company reviews written in English. I think that there should be a lot more consideration about the cultural norms of Worldwide companies that also have their content translated into the English language.

Therefore I would say that an English person using the term can 'jar' enough to fill it with strawberry jam. I would say that even though as an afficianado and specialist writer, this term is very often used in  Russian culture or Russian ballerinas in 'the west', and should be respected in my opinion.

As an aside, I am not sure 'eschewing' qualifies as plain English

2 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

But I note that the English versions of the websites you have linked to use the term "Principal"

 

Just a personal opinion, but I always think that seeing "prima ballerina" in an English language setting jars.

I would be interested to hear if anyone knows when the term 'principal dancer started to be used. I would hazard a guess that now modern or contemporary dance has become part of the repertoire of western companies, dancer may be more fitting. I had to check to see that Paris Opera uses the term 'premiere danseurs' instead of ballerinas which surprised me a little, or though they do have the term 'stars' as their principal ranking. I think the dancers at all russian ballet companies are actually ballerinas (prima or otherwise), due to the repertoire and dancing style,  but there are many Principal Dancers that are not in any way 'Ballerinas'. I think this is why still choreographers and company AD's will describe a dancer as a prima ballerina, as a dancer that would be the dancer who would dance the main solos in all of the classic choreographies in the first cast. I feel this is also a way in which the term 'prima ballerina' lives on in Europe today.

I do wonder why prima ballerina would 'jar' in the english language to you Lizbie. Is it because you feel that English reserve forbids the 'peacocking' of a dancer's position? I don''t want to go into get into argument, but ballet is the one place that the English Language is not the 'lingua franca'. Actually it seems 'Englishness' does not lend itself to ballet,  where many of your historical best ballet dancers had to change their 'unromantic' English names to sound more like a ballerina.

18 hours ago, alison said:

No, in the UK we still celebrate Mothering Sunday: it actually has little to do with mothers, but apparently was the time, halfway through Lent, when domestic staff were allowed to return home at the weekend to go to their "mother" church.

That is very interesting Alison, and I actually had a look at wikipedia to see how many different versions of 'mothers day' at different dates for historic reasons.

I did however mean that yesterday was Mothers Day for Switzerland and many other countries, but not in the UK (Hence why I couldn't wish the predominantly UK based ballet fans here 'happy mothers day'

Moved comment to The general discussion on dancer rank.

I would post Happy Mother's Day, it is here in Switzerland and most of the world, I appreciate however not in the uk.

I just wanted to share this video from Viktorina Kapitonova showing her pregnancy bump develop with pirouettes a small she shared it on social media today.

1 hour ago, betterankles said:

I hope they scooped the prizes because they were the most interesting.....

I am sure they were the most talented and accomplished choreographies, why else would they win? 

Full marks to the Times raking up old issues, and cliché's aplenty in so few words. I admire Polunin's technique or what it once was. People also call for people not to criticise this decision but this press really just takes so much energy. Even Matthew Bourne on Twitter wrote  'surprise surprise' in response to the news.

Under the original ROH announcement where it seems some of the Polunin camp have strongly hinted at the reasons why he has withdrawn. Stating roughly that he returned for reasons that were not of his choosing, he doesn't really care about Royal and it isn't a big deal for him, and that RB just didn't understand him enough.

26 minutes ago, David said:

I'm assuming that some members here will probably know more than they feel able to reveal but generally speaking, before we all jump to conclusions, I think we should wait until more information emerges.

Well, people always still know more than they feel able to reveal after every one of the public reasons SP gives for pulling out of performances.

I am not so close to the ballet world, but it is amazing how word gets out about the 'real' reasons behind the very banal reasons given to the press. One example is his La Scala Sleeping Beauty announcement.

I was really rooting for SP to prove this as a kick start to his life, career and all things good for ballet. I feel sad, that after all of the discussion he has 'chosen to withdraw'.

Just to put this in context about 'reasons', many ballet dancers take pain treatments and really have to push through many pain barriers to keep to their commitments, so, here is hoping that the audience give amazing support for the new cast.

25 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Casting for period 1 is already available to Patrons, so my information is above board and not salacious (or other) gossip.  

Thank you for the response, I was not inferring salacious, but it is good to know the source. Many thanks again.

2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

  She is scheduled to dance in period 1 pieces, but I am not at liberty to give further detail at this time.

May I ask if the ROH have briefed the staff of the Forum officially and this is where the information is from? Just to understand public rather than private sources.

Many thanks.

6 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Thank you - a lovely article (which didn't seem to be behind a paywall).  Akane's Giselle was exquisite, for me the most moving portrayal last run, and it's good to see her being recognised more widely.

 

In response to some of the comments above, it would be interesting to know how many references there are on the Forum to individual dancers and I would guess that Akane has attracted fewer comments than a number of others.

This is easily done with the search function. A quick comparison: Naghdi 777 Takada 390 results. Of course not all relevant, but quite a marked difference.

Ok gosh, here goes then... I post pretty often, so thought forum members might be able to judge my input from them.

1) BBB, I obviously didn't think that my awareness was part of the criterion, just that usually the Principal dancers are more in the sphere of public awareness from their performances or the roles they have been given to shine. There are quite a few first soloists I have heard the name mentions many many times more frequently, on this forum and elsewhere.

2) It was not making fun of a 'foreign sounding name' rather than the way the sounds scan, I would have said the same if it was Hal-Kent Kentucky or similar. It was light hearted.

EDIT: The comment about not knowing her was reason to say that as an answer to the 'new sensation headline' it seems that for a certain part of the population this could be an apt description. I look forward to reading about her, increasing my ballet understanding and awareness of her performances.

Funny how I have never heard her name and you say she is a Principal, I thought Principal dancers should be very well known especially as  I read a lot of ballet and have seen most of the Cinema relays.

I mean no offence, but hearing her name, it makes me think of Lion King, Arkane Takada means "no worries" in Ballet

20 minutes ago, MAB said:

The young RB male dancers may be stars of the future but Polunin is a star in the here and now.  Box office reaction will reflect that.

Box Office indeed, It remains to be seen if performances, audience reaction, reviews and  of lesser importance to polunin, reviews are better than for the existing non-stars (apparently). I very much doubt that he will perform better at all.

But I would be happy to be proven wrong 

Just to bring this whole thing into context, Mr Polunin has Twitter and social media pages, and he has not reacted to terrible and in some cases personal reviews. I don't want to go into the topic from the closed thread, but Polunin seems dignified in his lack of a response compared to these shenanigans.

The conciliatory statement is now included in full in the telegraph article. Not really much in content or apologies, I would imagine most choreographers say these things after each project. (Unless I don't quite understand the real meaning of conciliatory)

The ballet is now known as 'Pass the Parcel' in my house.

 

There are bits of Human Season I like, I think the opening display of 4 couple is gorgeous.

Don't you remove a layer at each time the music stops? Now that might add more spice to the choreography

Again guys, it isn't really an official comment and could be a trouble maker. Just before he is hanged drawn and quartered and so much is taken by the comment.

I could easily go to the commments section in the article, choose any one or your forum names and write whatever I like.

Sorry, still alive and writing

No need to be sorry at all.

The comments are (not verified), and so this could not be a genuine comment.

Also interesting to note is the comment by Kathryn Bennetts, who is or shares the name of a stager for Forsythe ballets.

So this was German Ballet 101 for today

Now I picture that you are exploding after the effort like Eric Gauthier's Ballet 101. The stuttgart choreographer and dancer here:

Schadenfreude

“How very wet this water is.” 

― L. Frank Baum, The Marvelous Land of Oz

The running order is The Cage....already over.

Next is Russian Seasons Ratmansky. There is a pause for changing scenery.

Last is Les Etudes.

EDIT: 15 minutes left of the Pause.

Except that I won't, because I won't have broadband after 30 minutes   Never mind.

There is still time to catch Russian Seasons