Peanut68

3 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

I have mentioned this next suggestion before and some parents have strong views about this: competitions. Not any fly by night one but just YAGP, Prix de Lausanne and International Ballet Competition Varna, Helsinki, Jackson (in Mississippi, USA), New York, Tokyo, or Shanghai. Ballet company directors do attend them, watch the rounds, and offer jobs to medallists and finalists they rate highly.  Yes, there is a cost involved to prepare and get there.

The last sentence especially important....it costs VAST sums of money to prepare with private coaching (unless you just happen to be a favoured one at vocational school who may be coached within already paid for training), competition/audition entry fees, travel (often overseas) hotel & subsistence costs (& I have heard that often it is the expectation that the parent funds the travel/hotel/food costs for a teacher to accompany a student!), tutu/costume hire costs, it goes on & on...this is an especially hard thing to justify when a family/government/charity etc have paid for student to train to graduate level - all buying into the idea that the vocational schools offer the relevant training & performance experience & job preparation support, industry exposure through graduate showcase performances within their upper school & graduate year courses. I've yet to see this being even half provided in-house from any school/college despite the 'sales blurb' without it again incurring huge costs for photos/videos/costume hire/studio hire/private coaching/travel/often having to help fund any performance tour costs etc.

And so the rip-off nature of this game goes on....sigh.

I think we are perhaps being hard on LCB for holding auditions that purportedly only 4 dancers then gained contracts from. That hit rate is quite likely high in comparison to many a closed ie. Invite only following applications company audition. I guess as it was in effect a start up the feeling was that there were 14 jobs up for grabs. Yes, but just like in any industry there will likely  have been a bit of head hunting & active recruitment going on well before & after these auditions. Let’s just hope that LCB proves a big hit with UK audiences & that they do lots of audience research. If we audience goers support them & at the same time feedback how we’d really love to see more UK dancers within a UK company then maybe that will help for future recruitment opportunities - both in increasing the numbers of dancers but also perhaps looking to improve the ratio of UK/overseas talent 

I don’t think anyone expected nor would want LCB to create a company entirely employing recent graduates - any ballet company needs to have the relevant levels of experience & expertise that comes with seasoned professionals & also to gain the ‘cross pollination’ of styles that aids the art form by dancers learning from each others training styles & repertoire knowledge. But it’s sad to think this could not have been found (or offered) to more UK dancers… but the roots of this are now deeply secured as it’s been going on for way too many decades. If LCB recruited from just UK companies & just UK graduates then the odds are that this would still mean that the pool of candidates were in the most part not UK born citizens. 
Btw - I noticed too late to correct in my firmer post - spellcheck has changed my typed word of soloists to soldiers!! Apologies! 

In reply to Colman - Personally speaking yes! If the UK provided employment for UK dancers then fewer would be seeking overseas opportunities - but again, I do wholeheartedly support the guesting & ‘exchange’ of senior dancer roles that traditionally went on years back. Dancers ‘cut their teeth’ in the corps & artist roles & once they became more famous as soldiers they get invited to perform in galas & guest in seasons with overseas companies. Win win all round Id say. 

3 hours ago, Sadielou said:

Newly formed London City Ballet, who held a two day audition for over 200 dancers last January, have just announced their company roster. 

Only 3 of 14 dancers are British. Of those employed only 4 attended the audition. 75% of the dancers appear to be quite mature and still employed by other companies. There is only one graduate who appears to be from Canada on the company list. What hope is there for British graduates in this country. The old London City Ballet although run by a South African, with a Prima Ballerina also from South Africa, was mainly made up of young British graduates. It was great opportunity for those who did not make it into the two main companies to garner experience and tour the Classics. This new company is London City Ballet in name only and not the Company that many were hoping would give young graduates new opportunities.

This is where our government really needs to step in & remove the job of  ballet dancer  from the list of employment roles that are unable to be filled & thus ok to easily hire overseas dancers. I am not against overseas talent but feel that should be used in the capacity of guest artists in principal roles - this giving opportunity to enjoy very many overseas dancers. But I do strongly believe that all UK based ballet companies should employ only UK dancers & professionals in at least the bulk of their positions.

It seems ludicrous that the government spends millions funding the training of UK dancers through MDS & DaDa awards as well as supporting ballet schools through other arts & education funding & charity status to then not try & protect in some way the company vacancies for these home trained dancers. 

Too funny…. But guess we have to respect the decisions made by mods whom I greatly respect for giving their time to this forum which in the greatest part is a fantastic source of info, debate & fun!

5 minutes ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

She was told by her grad programme directors to take it as there are so few jobs at the moment and she can add to her CV.

I bet they were not only thinking about your dancer but also about their statistics to quote to future cohorts…. I’d love to drill down deeper into the % quoted as working in the industry/going straight into jobs etc as to just what the ‘jobs’ & ‘destinations’ really are…. So many are just short term ‘freelance’ or again actually more paid for training under guise of being a job.

Congrats to your dancer Mummy Twinkle… I hope her current role is a springboard to where she wants to be x

1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

So that is 35 vacancies in the UK.  How many graduates are there from the vocational schools?  In the UK we have RBS, Elmhurst, CSB, NBS, RCS and more.  If, for example, 10 dancers graduate from each of the schools I have mentioned then already there are more potential candidates than vacancies.

Some of just those schools listed could fill these vacancies from its annual graduates…. I do feel there are far too many places in upper schools which promotes the dream it’s possible….an awful lot of money (from government/charity & family funds is being pumped into training to chase such a small likelihood of gaining a company place. The reality is clear to see but then the carpet gets further dangled with ‘junior companies’ , ‘training companies’ ‘graduate programmes’ all requiring yet more funding in most instances….Families struggle to find the standard years of training but its very hard to feel ‘so close’ knowing the dancers are skilled & trained enough already to not just pay the money for ‘just one more year’ when ‘this is the course that will get me seen by the right people’ etc etc. 

It’s so painful. Would the UK train perhaps 10,000 plumbers annually if only 100 were needed in the workplace? I imagine more likely we need an extra 10,000 plumbers!  

That’s very well put Colman - (found I couldn’t ‘like’ or ‘thank’ on the post…)

2 hours ago, Tango Dancer said:

In zumba you're told to do the moves and the teacher demonstrates them but as long as you broadly get them right they don't go around and correct you on exactly where to put your arms or precise positioning.  If you turn the wrong way or aren't getting the footwork right they won't really stop or do anything about it.  It's pretty much follow along exercise.  I enjoy it but I don't do it for anything beyond the fun of moving to music and cutting loose.

And therein lies why I have never dared try a Zumba class….me & my uncool hips would be a nightmare for others in class!!😆

Hmm…. Actually I’ve heard that often it’s people who do things like Zumba who indeed struggle with the idea of corrections & being taught…. But to me, any class be if ballet or Zumba should offer an element of correction & teaching to ensure participants stay safe & avoid injury etc & to get better! Unless of course the class members are already perfect - ha ha! I think it can be a sign of a lazy/bored teacher or gym/school & ‘students’ whatever the age or ability deserve proper engagement & teaching!! 

I find it really odd that anyone wouldn’t want corrections….??? It’s a ‘lesson’ afterall so whole point is to learn! Imagine saying to a driving instructor that you don’t want any corrections….🤔 🚗💥

Might be worth contacting Vyne Academy in Berkhamsted might be able to help perhaps? 
It’s on very good train links & easy to get to from M25 & this Essex 

https://vynearts.co.uk/vyne-academy/

I believe they teach adults at high levels & maybe could create a programme for you - good luck! Think they may also do occasional adult intensive short courses too.
Sadly I am too far away to go there myself….but seen & heard good things! 

I too share your frustration over lack of personalised corrections that is often the case in adult drop-in classes. 
I think it’s down to a few things… not scaring off the customers (it is a useful revenue stream for teachers), partly ensuring everything stays upbeat, body positive etc & avoiding any possible conflict or things that could be misconstrued as criticism or body shaming or that may trigger anyone’s underlying issues of lack of confidence/former unhappy dance experiences etc. 

Adult drop in lessons should at their core be about fun & fitness I guess & it’s a careful line for teachers to follow to ensure this for all participants & to take into account range of of ages, abilities, experience, fitness levels & underlying health conditions. 
The only way I found to get personalised corrections/training in lead up to an exam was to have a few weeks in advance of exam with lessons for just the 2 of us adults taking exam. We were fortunate in that it was the teacher’s first year of entering students so she was happy to facilitate this & only charge us regular class rate. I think more teachers could push adults to fulfil their dreams to improve, progress & gain that feeling of achievement an exam can bring. I think it really could be a way that dance schools  could add to their offering & income stream & also help in retention of dancers as there does seem to be that drop out of dance in the teen years. 
Since all I’ve been able to do locally has been 1-2 adult drop in my levels have plummeted & it makes me very sad 😢 

A former adult teacher felt confident enough of the class to advice the few of us who could manage things more advanced to say we did it in Demi-pointe or did doubles or raised legs to 90 degrees etc etc. No one else took offence but or felt it wasn’t fair or favouritism but I partly suspect that the new teacher quite possibly worries about this so we all just follow on. I do still enjoy the classes but I worry the ‘use it or lose it’ is all too true….I’m not motivated enough to rent myself a hall to work alone - at the core of any dance I do is just wanting that joy that working hard in a ballet class brings me….I just love the feeling when technique just works, when the music inspires a natural flow for emotion & artistry & the great camaraderie within the class when every dancer is loving it! 
🥰
 

6 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Thanks for the update Peanut68. I'm not an Instagram or X/twitter user although I can see the public posts on an online search.There's no mention of the BRB cancellation  on her public Instagram posts,  but she still has her post about her Taiwan appearances on 4 and 5 May up on Instagram.

 

Hence  I assume everything after April is currently OK to go ahead, unless she simply hasn't gotten around to announcing other cancellations. It looks hopeful for now that she will appear with LCB. Yes, she only had 2 dates with BRB. 

I saw the info on a regular email newsletter from BRB…

Just seen this….

BRB regrets to announce that due to unforeseen personal circumstances, Alina Cojocaru will not be performing with the Company at Sadler’s Wells theatre on 25th & 27th April as previously announced. Updated casting for our Sadler’s Wells shows is available on our website.

Were these all the performances she was scheduled to dance with BRB? Great shame & I do hope all is well with Alina. 

And do hope she is still planning to dance with London City Ballet in September….

Anyone here know more? 

15 hours ago, Viviangrace said:

Another thing we have experienced is this...following the audition the director will sometimes select a FEW (3-5 max) dancers that are of interest and have these stay for an informal interview.  A few times my dancer has had VERBAL contract offers made and been told to expect to receive a contract the next week. However, the email received the next week states unfortunately no more contracts are available.  

I've heard of this happening to lots of dancers too...it's almost as though directors enjoy giving hope in person...then it's actually quite easy for them to dash these by an impersonal email.....not good HR practice is it? would this be allowed/tolerated in any other profession?

I think the only 100% bursary that might be awarded at any school would most likely be to male dancers as they are still in short supply & money may be deciding factor in a boy selecting one school over others when several offers are quite likely received. Also 100% funding might be secured from a one off sponsor agreement from an individual donor/supporting body/charity but invariably these days anything charity based will be means tested so full support unlikely - even by MDS/DaDa - unless at the very lowest end of household income.

Brand ‘Aristoc’’  do excellent ‘barely there’ tights….found in Dept Stores or good independent underwear shops. They do many colours to match any skin tone & have nice shaped ankle that mean they fit slender ballet legs well! Think they also do a ‘Sandel Tight’ that has such minimal lines in knit they can be worn successfully with open toe footwear. I’ve seen 5,7 & 10 dernier - the lower the more ‘barely there’ (& more easily laddered) of course! 
Also Pretty Polly (though not seen these in a while??) 

I hate seeing empty seats & then to find they were sold (good for production) but unoccupied (bad for the dancers & rest of audience) I think the trouble is with ‘event’ ballet/theatre/concerts you get the ‘glitterati’ social set & their fixers who just buy up anything that’s expensive in case their diaries work out or they’d charges fancy that night out in the day…..ironically, if tickets were cheaper I reckon there would be very few no shows. Or it were for charity & thus they can be seen to be ‘doing good’, more of ‘the wealthy set’ would take up their very pricey seats & probably give much more in auctions etc….. I take it this gala is purely commercial? And nothing wrong with that btw - I’m all for more opportunities to employ dancers & for audiences to see more ballet!

Gosh I imagined it would’ve been a sellout…. Maybe if prices had been a little lower??? I also think a Sunday night quite tricky… if had to be a Sunday I wonder if a matinee or late afternoon start would be better?

Out of interest, did this get filmed & might it be available as pay to view somewhere some time? 
Couldn’t justify another expensive ticket & travel etc so soon after Manon but would love to see these dancers & this programme:- a great way to ‘discover’ new dancers/choreography etc!

Mind you, I’m typing this reading through watery eyes with a streaming cold whilst drinking a lemsip so probably just as well I wasn’t there!! 

So to clarify, mumtotwoballerinas (your name sounds like life must be expensive!) Your son was/is a fully paid/salaried coach contracted dancer with the professional company rather than on a trainee programme which requires payment (either by way of a fee or waiver with awarding of scholarships). Where I am confused is the use of term ‘apprentice’.
Where this and other dance ‘companies’ offer ‘apprenticeship’ positions, what are these? Are they properly paid or merely a chance for work experience? I’ve heard in some companies the word ‘stipend’ being used which suggests a nominal level of money being paid to dancers but that it’s not enough to live on so they still require to be able to financially support themselves (probs by parents).
It is all rather Dickensian - didn’t ones families in bleaker times have to buy a trainee position in a firm to guarantee a job centuries back? Or buy a position into the clergy… (thinking Jane Austen era now) Even in more recent times (early 30th Century) I think sometimes serving an apprenticeship was a way to get paid whilst learning & getting qualified on the job with low salary to start but seen as a sure fire way to learn a trade & earn for life. 
Does seem bonkers that ballet companies use this term. Reckon being an apprentice plumber would be a better bet for longterm earning potential & job satisfaction!! And better ROI for parents investment in education!! 
Congrats to your son for his success & to you for seeing the journey through! 
Always good to hear from all sides too

I doubt it though tbh they do make it very clear that finance matters must remain confidential. If ever 100% bursary is given I imagine it’s to make dancers only 

My thoughts exactly!!! And it had loads of extras incl higher fee for non Spanish & I think there was additional fee for costumes!!! That’s rich as bet any audiences pay standard ticket prices & assume they are watching professionals (which they are)  but I’m guessing they also assume the dancers are paid as such. It’s disgraceful & isn’t this the sort of thing that should be outlawed? Like paid internships to the legal industry were years ago? 

5 hours ago, BarbaraH said:

I have no personal experience, but I read a recent post on the Facebook Group "Parents of Pre-Professional Ballet Dancers". I'm afraid it wasn't positive news...

 

 

Wow….& am I understanding correctly that dancers (family) are actually paying to be part of this? Or at least the dancers are not being paid a salary or living expenses at least?