Peanut68

How refreshing to hear of a true 'Open' Audition where you can rock up & give it a go! Sadly rather an expensive & long journey to get there for UK dancers of course....!

I have only ever referred to experiences of my own, my dancing offspring & our family. Where I may have used ambiguous terminology this was only intended to protect offspring & to not name names as they would not wish that. As Ruby Foo states for her offspring - step too far at this point though one maybe that will be taken in the future. 

On 24/12/2023 at 13:44, taxi4ballet said:

Some might not tell their parents though, not if they think that their parents will remove them from the school. It only comes out at crisis point.

Exactly this. Plus the ace card of schools to not continue funding. Pupils are very much aware of this & are even advised by school employees that this could be an outcome of a situation. This is fact from personal experience. 

On 23/12/2023 at 08:01, Jan McNulty said:

cussion of schools and courses This

On 23/12/2023 at 08:01, Jan McNulty said:

Discussion of schools and courses This may lead to the expression of strong opinions, both positive and negative when experiences and views have understandably differed. Against that background, the general Acceptable Use Policy Conditions continue to apply but, as regards schools and courses, additional parameters are added.
    •    Posts about schools or courses must report personal experiences only (posted by the student, the student’s parent/guardian or the student’s teacher with permission).
    •    They must not include second-hand information or innuendo e.g. claiming to speak on someone else’s behalf, for “many people”, for “the majority of students” and so forth.
    •    Nothing should be included that could be construed as defamatory in any way and which could therefore lead to legal ramifications for the Forum and members.

I am sure I am perhaps not the only person who on this thread or others have had comments blocked as they appeared to not adhere to rules… however, it is very difficult to share personal experiences of offspring when details of those very experiences could identify them explicitly - particularly as there could be elements of abuse and teacher/school bad practise unique to their ‘story’ that their dancing peers of parents or indeed the teachers/schools themselves could recognise & thus know who’s parent is ‘speaking out’. And this in turn is a great example of the air of fear that can follow one even after leaving a school. Perhaps if said offspring had left the whole ballet world behind I would be emboldened to speak up with precise details as I know them to be factual but there is still that shameful fear that those who said they could ‘make them’ & open doors to a career could still - as the unsaid but very much omnipresent subtext at the time implied - break them. So, for the sake of not jeopardising their potential career I have attempted to keep unidentifiable but it does not mean my comments are any less true, any less worthy of sharing. I feel sad that I’m unable to join openly those who can ‘stand up & be counted’ & even more sad that on a ‘safe space’ forum like this I am still unable to share anonymously. (I find it difficult to understand how if one states it’s from a true personal direct experience it is not permissible… surely if names of schools/individuals are withheld then nothing litigious befalls the forum?) 

Silence is the enemy of justice but my experience of whistle blowing ended with the old adage of ‘shoot the messenger’ 
And again here I sadly feel silenced & perhaps others may likewise feel unable to share. And this perpetuates the problem & perhaps hides the true volume of experiences that would be shared? I applaud those brave individuals openly sharing with names & details that can be fact checked…. I note mostly they seem to be talking post leaving the industry….I’d be interested how many more could echo their stories from their own experiences but who don’t because they are still within the dance world & thus feel it safer to stay silent. 

On 22/12/2023 at 08:02, Jan McNulty said:

 

Can you please provide proof of your statement?

 

 

Please read the title.  After all this is a discussion forum.

 

 

Being investigated by journalists ... says it all really doesn't it.

 

I wasn't bullied at my school but my best friend was (by another pupil).  I was, however, bullied twice in my working life and that has affected me and still makes me upset when I think about it.  Neither of these circumstances mean that that was the norm and there are many positive experiences out there.

 

I should also remind people that solicitors are touting for business, as mentioned upthread, so they should be mindful of what they say in case court cases become involved.

 

@Lifeafterballet has shared personal experiences and for that I think she should be applauded.  It must have been very hard to share deeply personal issues but that really is what members should be doing (if they feel they can) rather than makin sweeping generalisations

6 hours ago, Sparks82 said:

that she doesn’t look ballet enough for Rambert! 

Ha - back in their day, my dancer wouldn’t audition for Rambert as they felt they didn’t  look contemporary enough!! 
But as they say you have to be in it to win it so congrats to your DD on getting out there & also for already having 2 fantastic offers - great achievement! 
(Only heard good things about both places but no direct experience to offer insights but I’m sure others on here will)

Can I ask if you assess if the post can be reinstated? ie. fact check with the poster? Am interested to know - thank you 

I don’t have personal dance experience myself (younger offspring have….high quality teaching, great facilities) Were I local to there I’d definitely give them a go as get the feeling lessons will be high quality & cater to all levels - good luck! Think they also do adult performances (of dance…. That sounded like it could be misinterpreted 😱😂)

Vyne Academy in Berkhamsted offer lots of adult opportunities & Berko is on the train line that goes to Euston 

https://vynearts.co.uk/dance/

I guess I do suffer with poor connection often (always when I have something I really want to watch!) A price for rural living! 

On 05/12/2023 at 16:56, Sim said:

That was the ENB Hampson/Scarfe version from a good few years ago.  This article from ENB's website will explain more:

 

https://www.ballet.org.uk/blog-detail/the-changing-face-of-nutcracker/

 

Thank you!

Is there any footage of this to watch out there?

I used it to watch the livestream of Fonteyn comp & it constantly froze or buffered so I missed big chunks - very stop/start. I was only watching on the ‘free to view’ basis not subscribed (so that might have meant I got inferior service) but it made me wary to use again & even more wary to pay…. 

I guess I rather niaively imagined a better than home use camcorder plonked on a cushion in the best seat in the house ha ha… guess it is rather more complex just as you so accurately explain! 
Also, I’d be wary of too much being filmed for fear a whole trench of audience may gradually disappear from theatres or newcomers never arrive 

On 05/12/2023 at 18:58, Lizbie1 said:

don't know who's staging them but could it be that the MacMillan estate wants to have a good look at some dancers first?

Slightly off topic - my apologies - but I’m interested to know the ‘copyright’ associated with ballets (the choreography, the music, the dramaturg & staging etc) and anything associated in gaining the rights to use a certain ballet or piece of music or story…? How does one find out about this type of stuff? 

13 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Ah yes - good idea! I too will take advantage of opportunity to still see EB via cinema screening (nor really am ‘in stead of ROH ticket purchase’ - more an additional sale) 

That should have read as seeing the RB screening (as am pretty sure there will be a live transmission of SL from the ROH) Does ENB ever get filmed & screened or streamed too? 

1 hour ago, serenade said:

My thoughts exactly 😀

 

Actually I already decided to make do with just seeing the cinema RB broadcast because of the price increases for SL being too much for me to stomach in my favourite area of seating …so now I’m pleased I  can see an alternative version at a (presumably) more reasonable price. Also looking forward to seeing the company who I’ve never seen before.

Ah yes - good idea! I too will take advantage of opportunity to still see EB via cinema screening (nor really am ‘in stead of ROH ticket purchase’ - more an additional sale) 

How many Nutcracker versions does ENB ‘rotate’ & which are they?

I recall seeing photos/clips years ago of a version (maybe ENB?) where the land of sweets had images of a dancer leaping out of a giant fridge…. But have never seen again or worked out what/where/who company was etc…. Or was I having my own sugar-rush dream???

Is it heading further South at all? 

Well that’s decided me….I’ll give RB’s SL a miss in favour of seeing this! (sorry RB..)

2 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

But as the official list says there is a shortage of dancers, does the salary level still count?

Rather laughable isn’t it I say ‘shortage’…. One thought of course is that the shortage refers to filling male dance positions not of course sex discrimination would prevent stating that & so by opening up to gain enough male dancers actually also opens the door to hiring international female identifying also. And I guess who can blame a director for taking the best on offer…& let’s face it, international training seems to create more advanced & with very polished solo presentation skills (often gained through doing the comp route) And it’s this high standard & skilful solos that come across well in videos to get selected to audition…. So again, some are disadvantaged as don’t have opportunity to train in same manner (& it could be deemed illegal here as we expect academic education far longer than seems ok for some overseas training). I do also wonder though how well a dancer with supersonic skills dancing principal level solos at comps can ever settle into being just 3rd from left, back row of corps de ballet in the classics for maybe years on end? 
 

Think you need to place this post in main doing dance thread…. Look at CAT scheme based at Northern Ballet in Leeds plus I think Chantry Dance in Grantham 

2 hours ago, Lifeafterballet said:

This happened at most of the pre selected auditions that my children attended ☹️ As you mentioned, you spend so so much on travel and accommodation and then to get asked to leave before the first exercise is heartbreaking 💔 

They never did an open one, but I imagine that to be a nightmare. 

 

Yes, it still happens at pre-selection too! 
I can hear the phrase ‘character building’ being shouted out - ha ha! 
Maybe the system of audition tours that USA companies/schools adopt could be more of a thing? And I seem to recall a thing called ‘Grand Audition’ whereby you could go do a day/few days (?) & be seen by several company directors? Trouble can be with some of these things that they become a bit of a jamboree & money making opportunity & also likely have the same people who are judges at the big comps attend (they seem to all like all expenses paid overseas trips! 🤔)

And so it always seems to come down to money… money to train to be high enough standard, money to coach in solos, money to have photo shoots, money to hire studios & videographers, money for flights & hotels & food to fly all over the world to attend any auditions you get invited to… & the money to be able to have the time to do this (ie. most likely not working or able to afford to be in flexible work where you can disappear at the drop of a hat - well, that’s probs part time hospitality & let’s face it unlikely to cover rent, travel, food, regular dance classes let alone the other costs listed above…!) 

A solution?? Well, I think if only companies could move away from feeling they have to be ‘international’ could be a bit of a start…. And to have governments policies reflect this… ie. to remove the crazy ease to hire overseas dancers when our homegrown ones are unable to even get seen at audition…(& I agree that overseas countries should do this too). Certainly at entry level. I get the whole international guest artist or soloist etc but think visas to work should require that only at a certain level should overseas recruitment be allowed (incidentally, maybe the new ‘minimum £38K I think it is a year salary for overseas work visa to UK might by default actually enable this as I’m pretty sure a corps member in any UK company is unlikely to earn that much…?) 

In UK I certainly think much if this having ‘foreign talent’ is a hang over from the early days of British ballet when dancers were encouraged to change name to sound ‘foreign’ with the idea that the best dancers all came from Russia etc…(Margot Fonteyn was Peggy something I think?) & so audiences ‘trusted’ foreign dancers to be worth paying money to see….when all they had to go on was advance marketing by way of posters on walls & adverts in newspapers I kind of get that….and people wanted excitement away from the norm…. But now? With all the possibility to see people & companies in advance on TV, online & share reviews & knowledge, this is not at all needed. 
Wouldn’t it be truly fab for instance if London City Ballet actually has UK dancers? And English National Ballet surely too???!!! 

I do miss the days of good old ‘open audition calls’ without video pre-selection…. Yes, I know it could save dancers potentially thousands of pounds in travel etc but I still feel that the audition pool can get small & miss out on those who struggle to have the support (money/studio use/teacher assistance etc) to prep a decent video & also those who lack the self belief & the ability to objectively see a video of themselves as being ‘good enough’ to send out. Plus that special ‘stage presence’ or hunger to be hired can never truly show up in the tiny video clip they may watch before putting you in the invite to audition or the outright no piles. Also, dancers I am sure only travel to auditions if they have truly researched the company & job & feel it’s right for them. Plus gaining ‘in the flesh’ audition experience is invaluable & if it’s the same pool who come across well in video & get audition invites then many miss out on gaining that experience & the dance company directors potentially miss out on seeing the wider variety out there & then we audience likewise miss out on variety & possibly some true talent is just lost to us all….

This could also help explain why there is a seemingly endless supply of rather bland 

overly similar dancers…. Just IMHO… 

Fewer risks taken these days & fewer ‘break the mould’ types to stand out & make us go ‘wow’! 

Out of interest what is/where is  Asami Maki Ballet?

I often think it would be nice if dancers could swiftly change into the nicest of the costumes they wore in a performance for the bow! 
Also, where dancers double up in corps & solo parts or dance in more than one ballet in day s triple bill, I’d love it if they could take bow in the cystine twisting to their personal ‘star part’ of their evening! Would help me identify who is who too!