ChocChip

I am a big fan of Sylvie too. And "6000 Miles Away" looks very promising! Do you know whether this three-piece performance has been released on dvd? How did she look? Did she have her hair cut short or he had her well-known "long hair+fringe colored in mahogany" hair image?

Thank you spannerandpony and Janet for the threads ! I am going to have interesting reading for the next few days. Some ballerinas do show off their exceptional flexibility on stage. What does drive me angry is that their exceptional flexibility does not melt into their dancing. They make it stand out above everything else.

I'm starting this topic as a ballet watcher feeling disturbed about some of the "things" the latest generation of ballerinas do on stage. I don't know whether these are the new standards of classical ballet technique. I hope some of the professional dancers and teachers here may comment on that. Russian ballerinas have been dancing like these for at least one decade now. And recently I started to see some English ballerinas do it as well. Oversplits in the leaps (grand jetes), 180 degrees lifting of the leg, 180 degrees penche or even an oversplit in the penche... Are these the new standarts of ballet technique or it just started with some extremely flexible young ballerinas one or two decades ago? When they talk about these ballerinas in documentary films most of the times they refer to them as ballet wunderkinds (being spotted in ballet schools for their extreme flexibility and immediately hired by big ballet companies and very quickly promoted to principals.). Two of the ballerinas I don't really like are Svetlana Zakharova and Alina Somova (because of their extreme flexibility and showing this off on stage like it's the best thing classical ballet can offer). They don't look like ballerinas to me, they look like puppets. I don't like the oversplits in the leaps at all. It doesn't look balletic to me. It might be suitable for rhythmic gymnastics but nor for ballet. This is my personal opinion. 180 degree lifting of the leg...I might have been taking classes for only 3 months but in the very first class my teach told us that the ballerina's torso should always have stood straight. When I see a 180 degrees lifting of the leg, the torso always gets curved. I have watched many ballets filmed 20 or more years ago - and 160 degrees lifting of the leg and a straight torso looks much more beautiful and natural to me. When I watched Zakharova dancing the Rose Adagio (where there are many liftings of the leg), she always lifted her leg very high (180degrees). Half of the Rose Adagio I was watching her panties and the bottom side of her tutu. Not pretty at all. About the penche... previous generations of ballerinas were doing 160 or less degrees lifting of the back leg on the penche. A 180 degrees penche (I've heard one ballet teacher in a documentary calling it 6 o'clock penche) looks fine and beautiful to me. It doesn't ruin the classical look of the ballet. But an oversplit in the penche looks awful. Last month I saw live the notorious William Forsythe' ballet "In the Middle, Somewhat Elevated". I didn't want to go because I had seen the ballet at home and I hated the music. But a friend of mine talked me into it. Surprisingly to me the ballet dancers managed to pull the technique off quite well. I even liked the ballet. It was like the evil and naughty twin of the classical ballet to me. This ballet definitely 'colors outside the lines' with everything it has. The music, the choreography, the costumes, the extreme flexibility and outstanding technique of the dancers needed made me perceive something new, something that extreme that made it an incredible ballet. I was shoked and impressed at the same time. It really is a masterpiece I agree, one of the 'ugly' and "twisted-minded' masterpieces. Seeing this ballet made me think that oversplits and pushing the technique outside every possible limits had their place in some contemporary ballets like Forsythe's. But not in all contemporary ballets. About the classics and the classical ballet... for me the oversplits ruin the classical form. How do you ballet watchers/dancers/teachers feel about that?

It was released on DVD and you can purchase it online. Probably we should start a new topic because this topic was meant to be for First Position Documentary. Kitschqueen_1 started this topic. If she allows I can find and post the site here.

If I had a dancing daughter or son I would definitely made them see this film.

Here's the Tutumuch info on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutu_Much It's been released in 2010. This is a quote from the plot: "Those that do make it face a difficult decision - spend their childhood and teen years away from their families and focusing on the daily strains of ballet training, or live as a normal teenager." The film started as an audition for Royal Winnipeg Ballet's Summer School Program. The school first picked the girls for the summer school program. After the summer the teachers decided which ones were suitable for a professional career and offered them to stay for a whole year (considering body structure, technique, ability to learn and progress, determination ... they were monitoring the girls through out the summer to see whether they had all that). And the school picked 4 girls for Clara's role for the annual school performance of Nutcracker. The most touching story for me was one of the girls' who was picked for Clara. I don't remember her name, but she was red-haired. She had everything she needed to become a professional ballet dancer but she decided not to do that. The plot was designed to make us see ballet the way girls saw it and how they felt about becoming a ballerina and whether they felt prepared emotionally for that decision . The red-haired girl was picked from probably hundreds of girls for Clara's role. The film showed her hesitation and her decision not to take this opportunity. She decided she need to spend her teen years as a normal teenager and to stay close to her parents. The film was more about the girls' awareness of what it took to become a ballet dancer rather than the competition for the auditions itself.

I watched it recently. I didn't like it all. I liked the "Tutumuch" movie much more.

Zakharova's Gala looks impressive! If the gala has been live broadcasted by any television in the world or recorded on DVD/Blu-Ray, it must be/have been available somewhere on the internet (this sentence doesn't seem grammatically correct, I'm sorry). Russian guys always have it all !!! I have been using Russian torrent sites for downloading ballets and music for many years now. From what I've read on a Russian forum the Russians instead of dealing with the torrent sites started doing something else. Uploading videos on youtube with internal links. It means that if I have the youtube link and send it you, you can paste it in your browser and can watch the video. But these videos are otherwise invisible for the youtube search engine. And the second thing is that they upload many videos (we are talking about ballets here) but they are only "visible" for users on Russian territory. Someone sent me an youtube unblocker for that purpose some time ago. A program that makes those kind of videos visible. It is buried in my archive somewhere but I am going to look for it and post the link here when/if I find it. P.S. Very often the titles of the ballet videos Russians upload are spelled in Cyrillic .hhhhrrr

Yeppp! That's true!

I saw the socks. I assume they are cotton socks but very sheer. I wear regular summer socks. They are called "summer socks" because they are manufactured for business people (male mostly) who must wear shoes through the summer. They are 90% cotton and very very thin plain black socks. They suit me perfectly for my slippers. I can't imagine how difficult and expensive it is to be a parent of a dancing child. Leotards, tights, slippers, tutus, costumes for performances, auditioning for schools. Professional ballet schools must be extremely expensive. I am curious about the fees and I am going to use the search engine to look for topics related to who much ballet training costs in other countries. I spend 1/4 of my income for my ballet classes (2 hours per week). If I want to go to an elite/snobby/expensive studio, it's going to cost me twice.

Hi miss.pointe, I considered using a mirror for a tendu picture but I couldn't find large enough at home. Since I wasn't given any personal corrections in my ballet training I though the main problem was the long second finger. It turned out I have a poor technique, I make mistake after mistake and nobody corrects me. You can see the list above. LOL I have to work on my technique and be patient. It was not a good thing that I missed the first three months of the class. I've never been to another ballet school but I've seen their schedules online. Where there are adult classes - there are two groups - beginners and intermediate. It is not correct to be called that way as Anjuli replied. It's actually "adult beginners 1st year" and "adult beginners 2nd year". My school has only one group - "adult beginners 1st year".There should be two ballet groups in the fall and I am going to join the 1st adult beginners group.

Is there something like "ballet socks" and why are they different form regular socks? I wear regular socks in my slippers.

Thank you all guys!!! I made a list with all the suggestions, assumptions and corrections given to me in this topic. I grabbed a chair for support and did a lot of very slow tendus to check if I was doing those mistakes. I don't need to stretch the topic with tendu and long 2nd toe anymore for myself. I make many mistakes because I am very very beginner. Ballet is hard. I understand it takes a long time to cover the very basics. This is a brief list with my mistakes. If others have similar issues it maybe helpful for them. 1. I sink into my supporting leg. Sometimes I even bend it. This is a result of not having stable posture. Rotation of the legs from the hips and the ballet positions of the legs and feet are still very new to my body. 2. I tend not to step on all my toes. I toss the weight of my body towards and sometimes I step mainly on my big toes. Especially when the tempo is quicker than I can do. 3. I sink into my working leg. That's why I smash my second toe. My working leg is not strong enough and I put weight on it. ("My dd's teacher often makes students lift the non weightbearing foot just to be sure that they aren't resting on it. She says to just lift it a tiny amount, and she checks that there was no sudden shifting of weight in order to do so." - this exercise will help for that for sure!). Other reason for sinking into my working leg is that when I have already sunk into my supporting leg correspondingly all the body "slips down". 4. Holding onto the barre too tightly. I even lean towards it. In my first classes I was a disaster. I was almost lying on it. My teacher corrected me not to "grab the barre" like a crutch, all five fingers of the hand slightly lying on top of the barre. 5. In 1st position my feet do a straight line. When I do the tendu to the side my heel is still pointing backwards. The pointed working leg in tendu position is not in a straight line with the supporting leg. Still not good enough turnout. 6. The idea of taping my second toe didn't come to my mind until last week. It does help to keep the second toe straight. Two layers of medical tape do the job. Also I decided to keep wearing the supporting socks for my big toes until my legs get stronger. I need that support for now. 7. All the exercises I do I do them better with the left side/leg. It didn't make sense. I am right-handed and my right leg have more coordination. Some weeks ago I spent a few days at home trying to figure that out. My right leg works much better as a supporting leg than the left. That's why tendu to the left is easier. And the jete and the rond de jambe... all of it. I'm thinking of restarting the beginners class in the fall. I am not ready to advance further. I missed the first 3 months of the beginners class and I need to catch up. There is no need to hurry. I believe everybody will agree with that. At home I do the 'Frog stretch' (http://dance.about.com/od/stretchingflexibility/ss/Splits-Stretches_5.htm). It helps me to improve my turnout. When I go to the studio I want enjoy the class. Now it's 90% pain and 10% fun. That's not right. I barely hear the music. I am so focused on the exercises.

'no white knuckles at the barre' means...?

It turned out it wasn't possible to attach photos to a post. So here is a link to the photos: http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/DarkChocChip/library/Ballet?sort=4&page=1

Hmm I don't see the photos on the post. Do you?

I thought I should probably have done some photos of my feet instead of trying to describe them. So I did some photos. I posted 13 photos because I wasn't sure which ones would do. Please ignore my bad looking nail on the big toe and the rough skin around it. There was some fungus starting to grow under the nail and I treated it. It's going to take a month for the nail to recover. As you see I have long hammer second toe. And other important thing is that all my last phalanxes of fingers/toes are slightly pointing up and the tips of the finger/toe nails are pointing up. It not something that really shows but it is very distinguishing on my big toes. My big toes' last phalanxes are pointing up. It is not a deformation, it's just the anatomy I was born with. I think my arches are considered high but my ankles are quite wide. When I point my foot, it may look like that my big toe is not fully pointed, but it is. It is the last phalanx of my big toe still pointing up (not arching with the rest of the toes) because this is the way my big toe is anatomically constructed. On the last two photos I folded my big toe just to show the difference. I was told not to fold the big toe because this is not the way feet should have been pointed. I couldn't do tendu photos on my own. I am sorry about that. Any comments, suggestions, advice - please be welcome to post. Thanks!

Anjuli, I really want to say a big Thank you for all the time you spent to answer my questions! I finally got to get understood by someone not only who loves ballet but is a professional ballet teacher as well. You sympathised with me emotionally and got me through all the issues with my ballet practice I posted here. You for sure were a very good ballet teacher and pedagogue. It is not easy to step into someone else's shoes and to see the things the way they see them. That's a talent. I know a good teacher when I see one. All your students must be proud of you!!!

Great post!

Hi miss.pointe, I don't really understand what a "double-jointed second toe" should mean. My feet's second toes got hammered in my childhood. Do you say that the first joint of the second toe is hammered and the second joint gets curled under in the tendu?

Thank you all for your replies. They did help! I hope more are coming! I think I can write just a few words about me and my relationship with ballet. I am not an over-achiever and I don't expect miracles to happen in an instant. I'm just a DEVOTED BALLETOMAN. THIS IS WHERE THE FAIRY TALE BEGINS... I was introduced to ballet by a friend of mine 5 years ago (I am 29 years old). He took me to a ballet performance and I got in love with this art instantly. I felt that ballet felt a gap in my soul I was trying to fulfill my whole life. I was interested in music and ... other stuff ... I don't want to get you bored with the history of my life. So...I am living in the capital of a small country in Europe. We do have an Opera and Ballet House which is at average level... surprisingly I may say (Vaganova training all over the Ballet house and schools). I started going to ballet performances once a month and watching lots of ballet videos at home. And last year I said to myself "Why shouldn't I try dancing ballet?" It looked for studios. I was looking for a studio good enough and to be able to pay for, and having adult beginners classes as well. I found one and I started taking classes. My first disappointment was that most of my classmates were attending these classes for loosing kilos or get some distraction after work. Nobody was there for the ballet itself. I got over it somehow. One thing about why this adult class is wrong and it is not my fault is that the class is 60 min. I've read everywhere a good class should be 90min. All of us go there, have 5 min to change, do ballet, get changed for 5 min afterwards and go home. No time for questions, no time for personal corrections. I overheard a few times some of my classmates talking about aches because of the ballet but nobody asked the teacher any questions. May be the time is too short, may be this is an adult class and this is what is supposed to be, nobody is expecting any prolonging interest from us in ballet classes, so no personal attention to anyone is made. Or may be we don't pay enough to get that attention. All that assumptions I've gotten into about the tendu are a result of reading different topics on different forums. I understand ballet is a high-technical form of dancing. It is not like going to the gym and do some step aerobics or tae bo. I can get serious injuries because of poor technique. I have had this tendu problems since the beginning. I also had some bad aches in my knees. It is because I still don't have a good turnout and on the plies I put my weight over my knees. I don't have enough money for private lessons to get the personal corrections I need. I am thinking of taking only one class a week and practicing the other class at home (slowly and paying more attention on my odds) and saving money for 1 private class per month. I am confused. I lack a complete ballet enthusiasm in my class. I also need personal corrections. I think all of my classmates need a personal corrections as well. From what I've read in these forums 90min is a normal length of class so everybody can get their personal corrections now and then. Please advise

Hi Anjuli_Bai, I assume you are a ballet teacher? I joined the adult beginners class 3 months after it had started so I had to catch up quickly. There had been new people coming and going so the class hadn't advanced much. And it's been 3 months since I started. We still don't do center exercises. We are still at the barre. Doing the tendus, jetes from fifth though. I noticed the problem even in the first few classes. I asked my teacher and she said that having long second toes needed padding for the big toe only for pointe shoes. For slippers it shouldn't be a problem. But it was a problem. I always felt that when I did the tendu to the side (second position) my second toe touched the floor and then my foot sinked or slipped down. I don't know how to explain it. When I start the tendu I "lick" the floor with my foot and when I point it only my second toe feels the floor, my pointed foot stays there for half a second and then it "goes down", my second toe gets smashed and I can feel the floor with the tips of my big toe and my smashed second toe. I probably transfer weight to the working leg or my legs are not strong enough and I can't do the tendu without letting my foot all the way down to the point where my second toe gets smashed. This is my assumption. After awhile I asked my teacher again. She said I could use some padding temporary like cotton or something. I cut the thumbs of latex kitchen gloves and put cube sponges inside and use these for socks for my big toes. It a half-solution of the problem. We do moderate tempo, not fast, but it is not slow enough for me and even with these socks I smash my second toes. I am getting more stable in time but as a whole I am still quite unstable. I had never done ballet in my life before and I wasn't familiar with either the rotation of the hip thing or pointing my feet when I started the classes. Do you think my instability can cause this bad tendu? Sometimes on a releve with my hands up in fifth I am so shaking that I hammer my second and third toes, I put so much pressure on them in order to stay straight. I don't know what professional dancers do. Men only wear slippers and Greek feet are common after all for both women and men. So that's why my question was "What is the proper way a tendu to the side to be executed when the dancer have long second toes?". If the proper execution is to touch the floor only with extended second toe and other toes being in the air this is what I should aim for, shouldn't I? No socks on my big toes, no taping my second toes. Just like that. P.S. I am sorry for writing so long posts but English is not my native language. I am trying to explain things as good as I can and be as short as I can.

Hello everyone, I am an adult beginner. I've been doing classical ballet for 3 months now but I have a problem that's been bothering me a lot. I have Greek feet (long second toe) and my second toes are also hammered. They got hammered in my childhood, not because of my ballet practice. I have problems with executing the tendu to the side. I talked to my teacher and now I know the proper way to point my feet is like this: http://www.wenningpt.com/howtopointyourtoe.html The maximum point I can do is 180 degrees, this is just my feet limitation. The problem is when I point my feet to the maximum my long second toe is still much longer than the big toe. When I do a tendu to the side the first thing to touch the floor is my second toe. I feel kind of unstable that way. If I want my big toe to touch the floor I have to smash my second toe (it gets even more hammered than it is and a big bump creates where my hammered joint is. It shows clearly on my slippers.) I still haven't gotten used to the turnout positions of the feet and I put weight on my working leg, which I should not do. So when we do the barre exercises I keep smashing my second toe and it hurts a lot. I started taping my second toes in my slippers in order to keep them as straight as possible and not smash/squeeze them even more. What my real question is: if a dancer has Greek feet (and probably hammered second toes), already has a stable posture and doesn't put weight on the working leg, WHAT IS THE PROPER WAY A TENDY TO THE SIDE TO BE EXECUTED? WHEN YOU POINT YOUR FOOT (ALL TOES FULLY EXTENDED) AND DO THE TENDU TO THE SIDE IS THE SECOND TOE THE ONLY TOE TO TOUCH THE FLOOR AND THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ? All Greek feet type people please be welcome to post. Men with Greek feet also!