Nana Lily

Thank you Tulip, we must have been posting at the same time!

Ok, have partly answered my own question by looking on the Central Ballet as School website:

17th, 18th and matinee of 19th, Central Ballet School. 19th in the evening Ballet Central.

Presumably there would have been some BC dances in the school show too and I see from a post that the associates had the opportunity to dance too, how lovely.

If anyone can answer my question 'do all students get the chance to perform in the end of year show' that would be helpful thank you.

How to Central organise their shows? We watched Ballet Central at the Lowry which was amazing. In this last set of performances is it the whole school and do all students have the opportunity to perform? Thanks NL

Regatta, so pleased your DD is sorted. Best wishes for your DD having her op, am sure everyone here wishes her well.

Pictures, it may be that a YDA host family have helped during these unusual circumstances for Reghattas DD. Usually you have to arrange your own accommodation for ENB

Tulip I completely sympathise with your DD having had sore ribs myself when 19 (rather a long time ago) while dancing in an am dram production of Grease with a flip turn and an inexperienced partner, it was agony (thanks Paul ).

Icing isnt going to penetrate to any organs and is recommneded for rib injury, here is a link.

http://www.coreperformance.com/knowledge/injury-pain/bruised-ribs-what-you-need-to-know.html

If there are any medics on the forum, please do comment.

Hoping you DD recovers quickly x

NL

Billyelliott, watching Soda Pop on Friday and Saturday night I immediately thought of you and your posts and just knew you would love it! Year 7's were gorgeous in all of their dances. We have seen the evolution of the Elmhurst Summer Shows over a number of years and I am delighted that all dancers now have the opportunity to dance in three dances of different genres demonstrating the versitility of the Elmhurst students, but with the emphasis still securely on the classical foundation.

BBB the Elmhurst shows have come a long way since we first watched when my DD's were just PVP's and children were lucky to be cast in anything at all. There are two casts for quite a lot of the dances. I have seen both casts. Yes there was a year 11 boy in the year 9 dance, but he danced at his level and he was spectacular, certainly one to watch for the future. Yes in some year groups boys are a little thin on the ground (they dont just fill the beds, and dont comprise) and so are used in year groups outside their age. Dancing in a company no one is interested how old you are, just how well you can dance. Casting in a company is at the discretion of the choreographer, its the same in a school. If you are cast in a principal role this season. you may not be next. That doesn't mean that those in the corps are lesser dancers, its someone's preference at the time. Not everyone can be the Prima. Its the same in local dance shows. BBB I wish your DC well for their Elmhurst journey and hope he/she enjoys every moment, works hard, makes the most of every opportunity presented.  Good luck for casting next year .

NL

I'm having trouble posting a copy of the DADA flowchart but here are the first stages.

 

 

Student applies to institution and is auditioned 

 

The institution ranks the students in order of talent

 

Institution offers a place (Not funding) to the student

 

Student provisionally accepts place and confirms they want to apply for funding

 

Self declaration form completed

 

The institution records the students on the Budget Management Spreadsheet in order of talent

 

Using the information in the self declaration of income the institution offers provisional funding to students in order of talent, until the budget is spent ( no offers to be made before 1st March)

 

Thank you for sharing the process Jane. However for many families now there is a first step ' don't bother applying to a DADA funded school despite being a high achiever at a well know MDS funded school as your family don't qualify for funding, despite your hard work, phenomenal talent, achievements and financial family sacrifices for the last 5 years'

 

I know many families in this situation and they are all moving towards degree funding and looking at schools abroad. Most will apply for one DADA school just to see what happens and others are looking at schools where they can live with friends or family to see if the cost can be kept down. One of my own family on two very ordinary public sector jobs have just used all their savings on privately funding their DC for one year at a DADA school. All the money has gone but the DC will now be attending a 'conservatoire' next year. We have supported our two DD's on MDS, now their options are limited, how can we fund two privately on DADA. It's madness. That said if they gain places at a conservatoire school they will receive excellent training. At least the audition process will cost less.

I have had many students go on to vocational training.

And I dare say they are what Nana Lily is calling second best because they are not all at the "Big four".

They would be very upset at the inference that they are wasting public money. As would be the institutions who are equipping these young students to be very employable young people. Some of my ex students became dancers,one an editor of a well known dance magazine others transferred their skills and were/are very successful in other walks of life. They trained at the places best suited to them and are now independant members of society. And in employment!

I thought Aileens question about transition into non dance areas good. Afterall what happens if a talented dancer is injured? I had an RBS student in this position who easily got into University despite not necessarily having all the A levels required. And this is by no means unusual. I know ex vocational dance students at Oxbridge too. Having been in serious vocational training made them desirable candidates.

'I say you did' make an incorrect assumption from my post hbfrew. I made no mention of the big four. Are you referring to ballet only? I wasn't. I made that quite clear in the opening line of my first post. I am referring to schools where DADA funding is available and the schools have a documented poor record of employment. I am not insulting your students, you made a big leap there...... There are many schools outside the big four which have first class employment , Northern is one of those. There were two MT schools on the report who had phenomenal records of employment, they produce dance students as well as MT students.

DADA funded (and AND drama) Schools who have consistently underachieved shouldn't continue to be funded. DADA funding was set up to provide funding for the most talented students. The review was a good idea, it's just that those with the purse strings didn't follow the advice of their own report. Their are many routes to continue dance training at an FE and HE level where children can follow their dream, grow and learn and come out the other end with life long skills which they can apply to all walks of life and contribute to society.

As some posters feel Aileen's second post is appropriate I will add one fact.

If you have taken the 'conservatoire' route by doing a degree at Rambert, Central or RCS, and you want or need to continue your studies in another area should you be injured, have a change in heart, or are unable to get dance employment, you can do 1 further year of a degree which can be funded by Student Finance, but that's all, so you may find your DC in a situation where an additional degree or HE course will need to be paid for privately. It's the same if you have done an HND level qualification at say Ballet West or a BA in dance at a university. I

Maybe that's why there are lots of graduates currently unemployed or taking positions which don't require a degree level qualification?

However your original post was

quote name="aileen" post="95901" timestamp="1402683436"]This question is prompted by a couple of recent articles in which the author asks whether we are training too many actors. I'm sorry that I'm unable to post links to them (due to my incompetence) but they appear in The Guardian and The Stage. The point was made that in recent years there has been a large increase in the number of acting and theatre courses without a corresponding increase in jobs. Apparently, a large number of actors make less than £5,000 a year from acting and few make more than £20,000 a year. Some people argue that if there were fewer trained actors there would be more work for them. Now, I don't want to offend anyone by starting this discussion but I would be interested to hear whether members think that fewer dancers should be trained.

I have responded to your original question. Are their too many dance student? If second best performance dance students are provided with vocational level training for performance , it's not good use of their time or public money as they won't get employment. In any financial climate training opportunities via publicly funded means should be limited to the very best when the cost is extraordinarily high, much higher than the cost of a lot of HE/degree courses. Training to be a dance teacher can be a different scenario versus performance taking a completely separate route as body shape and type unfortunately will come into play, but technical ability is still hugely important.

If a person has trained full time to become a dancer from, say, 16 to 19 how employable is s/he in other fields? How well regarded are the degrees undertaken at vocational schools? Can a person easily get into university after vocational school, bearing in mind that some vocational schools do not offer A Levels? Would diplomas in dance be regarded as the equivalent of A Levels?

Is this a different question Aileen which needs a separate thread?

Your question is interesting Aileen. What type of dancers are you referring too? Is this Ballet, Contemporary, dancers for MT, Jazz or Comercial? Any way maybe it doesn't make any difference about what type of dancer your question is aimed at. If the question is are we training too many dancers for the number of jobs available then the answer is probably 'yes'. Are all students embarking on a full time dance training programme expecting to get employment or just continue their training for as long as possible to the highest standard they can achieve either for performance or teaching opportunities? Who knows!

A few years ago there was a report on a review of DADA funding and the future. I had the impression that the review would have resulted in the funding being allocated to a smaller number of schools to those schools with the best employment rates (which the report quoted). No that's not what happened. DADA funding used to be allocated to children who scored highest is their auditions. Today they are allocated to children who first qualify for the funding (families who earn less than £70k per year) then second to those score highest depending on parents income. How a family who earn £70k before tax are expected to fund £25k worth of fees for 3 years out of £70k of income before tax is madness, the numbers don't add up.

Better to remove funding from under performing dance and MT/drama institutions and award the funding to the most talented children capable of getting a job (with sensible means testing) via a first class school, is money better spent by tax payers. Less dancers trained at fewer institutions meaning a higher % employment rate.

Elmhurst do RAD on Saturdays and most children do an exam each December (unless injured). It was 'optional' but think they have changed that more recently. They have been doing the new syllabus for a while as they did the 'road test'. Hammond do RAD classes during the week with exams at various times throughout the year. Don't have personal experience of Tring, but sure someone else will provide that info.

NL

Sorry but where did this thread suddenly jump into the throws of very tall ballet dancers? Where did that come from it's very 'left field'. The OP didn't intend this. Maybe 'dancemad' you should start a different thread on 'tall dancers' interesting to maybe specify what yiu consider to be 'tall'

There are several things to consider:

1. First will the vocational school allow the student to take part

2. Does the festival allow vocational student to take part

3. If 1 and 2 are ok, can you fit in additional lessons without compromising your DC's rest time and wellbeing

4. If your child has just started at vocational school and as 'Billyelliot' shared they are in a transition year where all are take back to basics while muscle memory and other learned habits are bring ironed out do you want to jeopardise the professional/vocational training in formative years?

Your choice..............

Many congratulations to your DD. Now she can enjoy the rest of the term and look forward to the summer show

You will need to ask permission to do Easter and Summer schools also for festivals, though there are very few festivals which allow vocational students to participate. If your DC is about to embark on the vocational route their will be little opportunity to rehearse for festivals as they dance at Hammond Monday to Friday and Saturday mornings till lunch time. Rest days are very important to the health of vocational students. If your DC is at vocational school why would you want to participate in festivals with non vocational students?

so pleased you both enjoyed it, I love how its edited and the music, I find it very moving and inspirational!

I refer back to the original post in this thread and I am sharing a fabulous insight into Ballet Training in the UK via this video on youtube and the Elmhurst website. It may have been posted in other threads, but I felt it important to post here. I have had two DD's at Elmhurst, both who have received wolrd class training in ballet as well as a fabulous education, pastoral care and opportunities to perform with Birmingham Royal Ballet. There are snippets of both my DD's on this video (neither dancing!), but I really feel the video captures the dancers experience in training,performance opportuinities and life at at the school. I hope you enjoy this short video and share the joy demonstrated. You will see a few famous faces as well as some of the youngest faces....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-eeG_9ucZ4

I have also enlcosed the response by David Bintley to the obituary to Galine Stock in the telegraph where he commends her considerable acheivements, and also quotes the number of dancers in the Royal Ballet Companies from the UK ballet schools

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/10804314/Response-to-Gailene-Stocks-obituary.html

edited to add link.

Thanks Spax. Which course did your DD enrol in originally, how much are the course fees and what did Student a Finance contribute. Thank you. NL

Thanks for all your replies. It would be really helpful if someone from England with a DC at Ballet West could share their experience of the Student Finance Situation for the HND and Degree course.

Thank you all! I think I understand now. For classical ballet courses at BA level (Central, RCS and Rambert (though contemporary/classical) Student finance will cover the £9000 fees. For Ballet West and BTUK as HND courses student finance will cover £6000 towards the fees?

Thank you friends.

I think I am correct in saying that the Student loan will cover the £9000 fees for Central and Royal Conservatoire of Scotland, but what about Ballet West and Ballet Theatre UK (pending accreditation) how much will student finance pay towards these fees?

Thanks

I have been following the upper school threads with great interest as my DD will be going through auditions next year. Well done to all those with a 'yes', good luck to those still waiting and commiserations to those who haven't made it yet.

Hoping someone can shed some light on the financing for theses courses. I understand you can apply for student finance, but think on one thread someone mentioned the normal £9000 is cut down to £6000 as some of the schools are classed as 'private'?

Any information gratefully welcomed.

NL

Think the people waiting list offers, just need to sit tight for a month or so, will be interesting to hear if anyone knows of any offers made out to reserve candidates already. There seem to be many at the moment seems as if they are holding places out, but at what cost when people are losing money and they could potentially lose talented and hard working students to other schools due to finance reasons.

 

I think my patience is wearing a little in this process now, I just want to know what the situation will be next September so can start sorting accommodation and focus on exams!!

Some of the schools have lists of host families or there are agencies you can use. This one is specifically for international students

http://www.ukguests.co.uk/about-us.php