DD Driver

11 minutes ago, Jane said:

But if you’re a self conscious 12 year old, say for example you’re one of the first in your class to reach puberty, and a number of the observing parents are watching you intently and whispering behind their hands rather than watching their own offspring how do you think the child feels? 

I would hope that is a rare occurrence.  Maybe you have seen otherwise.  My child and her peers seem to get quite a lot of audition, open class and stage opportunities so they are used to being watched and know (believe) that 99% of parents are very supportive of them.  Children not wanting to be watched (or refusing to allow, their own parents to watch) when they are dancing, is a whole other thread!

The parents I know are very careful if allowed to watch a class.  Parents don't talk.  There is a skill in watching of course! e.g. very limited focus for more than 3 seconds in any one place.  Don't make eye contact... No easy feat. 

So, I'm talking about trends in general.  I am happy for ANY successes for students I know even vaguely - based on whatever gets them through.

34 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

Indeed, Tulip! I saw it go on when I was a teenage ballet student - my sister (who went on to have a very successful career in an excellent company) was particularly targeted by such comments. We ere talking about this the other day. 30 years later she still remembers the hurt of the envious comments. 
 

I think that’s why I find some posts on this thread a bit uncomfortable. 

I am very sorry to hear people said nasty things and targeted your sister - or any young student! 

Auditions are competitive situations and can be stressful.  Directors are making selections based on their personal, preferred criteria.  Of course.  Different students have different advantages - in their facility, their body shape, their dancing, their looks, their height etc.  I don't believe that commenting on where the preferences (appear)  to lie, is necessarily a product of envy.  

People are looking to understand the selection criteria and what directors want.  Over the 4 pages of this thread there are posts discussing pressures on those selected to maintain an extremely low body weight - despite their (probably) natural leanness!  This is not in the interest of any child or adult interested in pursuing ballet, professionally or for pleasure.  IMHO!

1 hour ago, Tulip said:

No company is going to take any dancer who can’t dance to a high standard, or one who can’t pick up choreography. Companies choose dancers from all over the world, they choose the best of the best. Schools especially at 16, are selecting students who are trainable and employable. 

Yes, I agree that companies want the best of the best - at 18 and older.  I am seeing schools, PdL and YAGP however prioritising a certain low weight, very lean-look over talent-  at the 16 and under age range.  

In Australia, unlike many countries, students can continue to train at a very high level even when they have been repeatedly rejected by vocational school/s.  Often it appears that the rejection is about meeting a certain aesthetic. We get to see some of these students go on to win a place at top upper schools, comps or companies when they are 16 and older.  

So, I am just observing that the focus on 'potential', based on meeting the favoured aesthetic (not facility in terms of turn-out, body proportions, natural flexibility. feet etc) at the younger ages seems out of whack.  Ultimately damaging for many.

5 hours ago, Kate_N said:

 

This is quite an extreme statement to make. Unless you're an expert ballet teacher,  I'm not sure how anyone can know this, really. We don't see their auditions, not their daily classes & training. 

 

Hi Kate_N, I certainly understand why you question my statement: "some of the students chosen for vocational school are not gifted dancers"  It may sound like sour grapes to you!  No, I am definitely not an expert ballet teacher.

I said this because I have asked for honest thoughts and feedback from some of the top ballet teachers in Australia and 2 AD's from top overseas vocational schools (US/Europe).  These people have seen my DD for weeks in class through to many years.  They have given me their appraisal of my daughters facility and dancing ability.  They have told me of their thoughts on how selections have been made for vocational schools.

Frankly, I am very very open to being told about shortcoming she may have (other than puppy fat)!  🤷‍♂️ She has been offered training opportunities overseas but we said she was too young.  In Australia, I have been advised to just wait and see what puberty brings her.

Oh just to mention a silver lining...some good things have come out of my DD not having the right 'look' for top vocational schools when she was 11, 12 and 13 years old.

She has stayed at home with her family.  We have made it clear that she should not consider her 'ballet' weight until she is maybe 16 or older, wanting to audition for an upper school or company.  This means she can protect her mental health and experience puberty.

She is at a ballet studio, dancing with a very talented cohort.  If the school is no longer right for her, she can move to another one. She does not have a sense of constantly auditioning and has no concerns of being 'assessed out'.  This means, for example, she has no pressure to dance when injured or 'please' her teachers beyond natural courtesy.  She is the client!  Finally, she can attend intensives, get performance & competition experience and audition when and where she likes.

2 hours ago, Kanangra said:

But this is exactly what the problem is. We are not talking about "fat", but kids who are being turned away because they have muscles or boobs. A friend of my DD is a brilliant dancer - lovely (and highly awarded in scholarship competitions etc) performer, high 90s in her vocational exams, awarded her solo seal - but can't get a school to take her because she has muscles and boobs (she would be maybe a B cup at most). She is very slender and has beautiful lines but schools will not look at her. People have tried to get her in their companies and junior companies (but she couldn't accept because she was too young, or the associated school knocked her back). She looks no different from some of the dancers in the Australian Ballet so it is not just about lines. This is just one example.

This is exactly the issue Kanangra.  Some of the students admitted into vocational schools are not gifted dancers.  Maybe they look like someone's ideal of a ballerina.  I want to see talented people on stage.  People who are beautiful in motion, showing musicality and artistry that moves me. 

I see too many gifted full time ballet students being rejected by vocational schools, PDL and YAGP because they do not fit the mould.  Meanwhile they win the local and national Eisteddfods and comps because of their stage presence.  They are chosen as soloists in their ballet school productions because anyone can see they have 'it'.  Frankly, many who are chosen by the vocational schools can't cut it with these performers.   I can't change any of that!  I'm just saying it is very obvious to all involved. Sigh.

On 09/10/2020 at 08:07, NJH said:

 It's a  hard watch but  very  relevant 

unfortunately while the behaviours and focuses may be different it is behaviour all to common in other settings as well  

It is so disappointing that MCB did not make this work!   She has a massive following that they could have leveraged to attract a greater audience. 

Misty Copeland has star power that brings people in, despite complaints around her technique by serious ballet fans.  It is good cash business for ABT.  

Ballet desperately needed a shot of body diversity.  You know, US size 2!

I don't know if many of the Artistic Directors out there have the leadership and management skills this industry needs.

5 hours ago, Kanangra said:

@DD Driver I was going to point out the same thing - our dancers in the Australian Ballet are a range of shapes. Professional dancers surely need to have strength and stamina to succeed in their career. 

Yes!  Early rejections can help our young dancers to build the drive and resilience they will need in a company or any walk of life.   Or that's just what I tell myself every time it happens haha

1 hour ago, Kanangra said:

@DD Driverwas your daughter successful?

 

My daughter's dance teacher used to do the videos and send them off herself. This was for entry to schools in Europe and the UK, and was standard for kids auditioning from Australia. I think she used a GoPro.

 

 

Hi Kanangra - Thanks! No she wasn't! 

It is ok though as she has become very resilient.  Also open minded about where she might land up one day.  Luckily good training is available in big cities here.  Going to The Australian Ballet School is just one route.

In the last few months, a large amount of young dancers did video auditions for the Australian Ballet School.  This is for either full-time or associate-like programs.  It was actually a great learning opportunity for them and it is lovely to have the video to watch given, as parents, we are not seeing our children perform or in classes.

My DD's conclusion however is that the school would have ONLY watched her video (amongst 100's) if she passed the first test.  That is,  deemed to have the right 'look' in her photos!

13 hours ago, Nama said:

It’s ironic that seeing those same super skinny weak dancers have bulked up to almost normal levels when in coys and the daily requirements have necessitated healthy habits in regards to food. So why chose the skinny weak ones then require them to eat properly and get muscle tone when they’ve got the job in the coys. This is particularly evident in the famous coys 

So true!  In Australia, people often observe how dancers in one of our top company do not look like the students in their associated school.  Of course some did not go to that school or joined in the last few years.   

As a parent, you can only say to your child: I don't understand this.  Isn't the job to be beautiful and talented 'in motion'?  All you can do and control is: aim to be the best dancer that you can be.

I always remember how normal Torvel & Dean looked in interviews.  On the ice they were sublime.

Nama - the phrase 'it's a skinny contest' often comes out of my mouth.  Especially in relation to auditions.

The best opportunities for my DD are when an AD sees her in action for 3 or more days.  That is, sees the dancers doing classwork, learning choreography and showing musicality and artistry. Sigh...

Inspiring words from Steven McRae on his Instagram.  He talks about  how some people comment that they liked his body 5 years ago when he was skinnier and less fit!  Living his life in a 'calorie deficit'

Looks like they have taken it down.  Good decision!  

Some of the basic marketing lessons seem to have been lost lately.  It was drummed into me that, in business,  you must always protect your brand and associated values.  Know who your audience, customers and donors are etc.  That is where the money to continue comes from. It is so hard (expensive  and time consuming) to build a brand and attract & maintain customers/donors.  Possibly, people who do understand this have been shouted down by others in the business and outside of it.  Hence, the buck stops at the top.

So disappointing to see this instagram post from @abtofficial (run by the dancers of ABT).  It is an ABT principal dancing The Nutcracker's Clara with Cardi B's song: WAP overlaid.  If you're lucky you don't know this song and its incredibly vulgar lyrics. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=cardi+b+wap+lyrics&oq=cardi+B+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j46j0l5.12410j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You can imagine, many of the people who follow this instagram account are young ballet fans - under 18.  So inappropriate.

Hopefully the post is removed before you read this thread!

On 08/09/2020 at 23:55, Aklf said:

It will be interesting to see how diversity quotas work in Ballet.  Where we live in Australia the majority of young students at our studio are Australians of Asian appearance.  By high school things change dramatically.  Basically the demographics do a reversal. 

The level of commitment required to continue training i.e. most nights and Saturdays, is a problem for parents who want their children to focus on their school work and have (legitimate) concerns about the opportunities and remuneration in Ballet.   

7 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

That is good news but it will be interesting to see how, in the nearer future, the Mariinsky and the Bolshoi get on with their re-openings.  I know that there are some live shows in New Zealand but RNZB have taken the decision to cancel their upcoming tour as the number of C-19 cases is rising.

Yes -  RNZB had to cancel their tour as the latest lockdown in NZ made it illegal.

Yes no surprises there!  (Except people's ability to still be surprised)

One of my teenagers is passionate about Fine Art.  She has been doing it for more than a decade through school and private courses.

She does not expect a career from it. She can express ideas in pictures - so maybe there is a profitable avenue in design and technology for her.

My DD is not as clear sighted yet😂

Well maybe difficult to learn and practice in your livingroom but ...this performance by Tiler Peck of Fascinatin' Rhythm from Who Cares by Balanchine

On 29/07/2020 at 22:29, oncnp said:

More funding info from The Stage. 

 

"...focus of the Culture Recovery Fund is to support "significant organisations", which were financially viable before Covid-19, towards a full or partial reopening by March 31. " Organizations must open their books and detail how the funds are to be spent.  They will also have to have a plan to "improve the diversity of their workforce, governance, audiences, visitors and participants." as well as a plan to diversify income stream. 

 

 

What is your understanding here of 'diversity' in the expectation that organisations 'improve the diversity of their workforce, governance, audiences, visitors and participants.'?

Humans are diverse in: age, sex, gender, socio-economic status, ethnicity, nationality, height and on and on....even their personal interest in Arts, Sport etc

The What, How and Why needs to be understood in order to do something to 'improve' and meet the measurable outcome (quota) for compliance.

If for example, football codes were asked to hire more females, then ask what is the definition of a female?, how is this to be determined (self-identify or medical certificate), and what is the social good expected from this requirement?  Also, who is putting this ruling forward and was the policy publicly presented and supported by anyone elected by the broader community ?

If for example, Ballet companies were asked to attract audiences of  greater ethnic or racial diversity , then ask what is the definition of an audience member's ethnicity/race?, how is this to be determined (self identify, med certificate, nationality/citizenship) etc etc 

You can't comply if you don't understand the requirement and how it can be met!

4 minutes ago, alison said:

 

I've frequently thought that our 21st-century society does our young people no favours by not instilling in them ways of coping with adversity, or perhaps by trying to remove any situation in which they might have to face it.

Yes - Building Resilience through graded exposure i.e. face the feared situation, in incremental steps,  experiencing small successes along the way

The Australian Ballet

I liked the use of the term Eating Distress and talking, then intervening, as early as possible rather than going straight to talking in terms of an Eating Disorder.

The students communicated the situation very well.  On one hand they understand that there are many different body types and that they are athletes as well as artists. On the other hand there is still so much pressure, in the industry and from the selections made by future employers , to look slim and 'balletic'.

Alison, that just shows how long it has been since I did school athletics!  

I do think basketballers are interesting as there are some incredible jumpers there.  I think their training involves squats etc to work the whole leg and gluteal muscles.  Hence Sara Mearns at NYCB and her squats https://www.instagram.com/saramearns/.

My DD was involved in gymnastics until she was 11 years old.  There was a lot greater focus on  'whole body' strength and cardio  compared to ballet training e.g. at least 20 minutes warm-up including planks, walking hand stands, rope climbing etc.   

8 hours ago, ProfDance said:

There is a lot of practitioner wisdom on the benefits of Pilates but under research conditions they don't stack up. The exercises don't actually increase the length of a muscle; they do promote the use of slow twitch fibres as the movements are controlled and with a low load that might be seemed to result in "lean" muscles but are certainly the reason why few ballet dancers (particularly female) can jump.

 

ProfDance, what exercise might be beneficial for the lengthening of muscles and what can improve a dancers jump?  I am sure that we can learn from high jumpers and basketball!