CHazell2

I can't wait for Tuesday night - given all that I have read about Watson and Osipova. Only thing is I will be in the Amphi - row H - Will I get a good view up there?

17 hours ago, Amy said:

Hello there everyone.

 

I am the owner of this Petipa website and I'd like to thank the person who started this discussion; I'm glad to see that people are really tuning into the site.

 

The website still needs a lot of work done to it; yes, it is very much a fan site right now, but one of my aims is to take it further and hopefully, it can become a good reference site in the near future. I have had feedback from the likes of Lynn Garafola and Tim Scholl and Doug Fullington and Alexei Ratmansky have both seen it too; they've all given good feedback and a positive reaction and what the site is missing is a scholarly side. Hopefully, if I get a good team together, it will become more scholarly.

 

I welcome any feedback and I'm glad to hear that people are enjoying the site; thank you.

Hi Amy

That sounds wonderful. Just out of curiosity, will you upload any more clips or aren't you allowed to?

I always wanted to go to Vienna. All that culture and history

I am looking forward to seeing Watson and Osipova on Tuesday evening.  Should be quite an event.

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 14:28, Beryl H said:

I was watching a documentary last night that I recorded, the episode took in Vienna, the Hapsburgs and Mayerling, and continued to WW1, Franz Josef had a tragic life, everyone he loved died in horrible ways, I remember going to Vienna and Mayerling, and I always thought that although it was the perfect cream cake and Strauss waltz fairytale city, there was still a very dark undertone.

 

Hi, what was the documentary called?

What's wrong with Beatrix Potter? Everyone on here seems to hate it and I just wonder why. I love the 1971 film.

I really hope that the mime is kept intact as the story will not make sense without it.

Well, speaking for myself, I am definitely pleased to see Alice and the Winter's Tale as I always wanted to see them. I also want to see the Song of the Earth and Elite Syncopations. I wish that the Judas Tree wasn't there as I think that it is a rather violent ballet and it doesn't do anything for me.

I think that the additional choreography by Mr Scarlett for Swan Lake will be for the first Act and the 3rd Act - and I think that it will be interesting to see - I seriously doubt that there will be any whores in this one. I think that Mr Scarlett has got rather a lot of flak on this forum lately - I think that he is a very interesting name to watch.

I don't think that Alice is vulgar or tacky - in fact, I enjoy it and it is quite funny in places and it is very popular.

That's fine. I just don't think that the Petipa ballets should be museum pieces. After all Shakespeare gets many different treatments. I am just setting out what I would like to do if I had a chance to. Life would be boring if we all agreed.

I am very apolitical but I don't like the way that the UK is heading. I think that the referendum should never have been held as it has exposed the UK as a very, very divided country. I just wish that there was some way to repair the huge damage that has been done.

It was bound to happen. He is a terrific dancer but he can't keep going forever. Must be an awful decision to have to make though.

Darcey Bussell was always a household name throughout her career. She appeared on the Vicar of Dibley. She also wrote loads of ballet books for children.

I saw St Petersburg Ballet Theatre's production of SB in Northampton last month.  They have a prologue that shows the King and Queen visiting Carabosse to obtain a magical fertility treatment.  Very discourteous therefore to exclude her from the christening as there wouldn't be a baby without her.  They also had two separate royal couples as Aurora's parents must rule the land despite their daughter's misfortune.

I saw that production too.

in case anybody was wondering where my conception of the fairies come from, please see below. Courtesy of Wikipedia

The categorization of fairies based on court is whether or not a fairy is light or dark. The Seelie court are known to seek help from humans, to warn those who have accidentally offended them, and to return human kindness with favors of their own. Still, a fairy belonging to this court will avenge insults and could be prone to mischief.^[4] The most common time of day to see them is twilight.^[5] Other names for the Seelie court are 'The Shining Throne' or 'The Golden Ones' and 'The Summer Court'. Seelies are known for playing pranks on humans and having a light hearted attitude, forgetting their sorrows quickly and not realizing how they might be affecting the humans they play pranks on.

The Unseelie Court consists of the darkly-inclined fairies. Unlike the Seelie Court, no offense is necessary to bring down their assaults.^[6] As a group (or "host"), they appear at night and assault travelers, often carrying them through the air, beating them, and forcing them to commit such acts as shooting at cattle.^[7][8] Like the beings of the Seelie Court who are not always benevolent, neither are the fairies of the Unseelie Court always malevolent. Most Unseelies can become fond of a particular human if they are viewed as respectful, and would choose to make them something of a pet. Some of the most common characters in the Unseelie Court are Bogies, Bogles, Boggarts, Abbey Lubbers and Buttery Spirits.^[9] The division into "Seelie" and "Unseelie" spirits was roughly equivalent to the division of Elves in Norse mythology, into "light" and "dark" distinctions.^[10]

In the French fairy tales as told by the précieuses, fairies are likewise divided into good and evil, but the effect is clearly literary.^[11] Many of these literary fairies seem preoccupied with the character of the humans they encounter.

Sorry for the double post as I was not allowed to edit my earlier post for some reason.

My ideal production would be set in the Tudor court with the Prologue around the 1540s and Act 1 being set in the 1560s.

How I would start is before the music rises, there will be a short scene where we will see a Nanny read to a child – who the child is – is to be revealed later.

Then the overture starts with a scene when the King is waiting anxiously for news, I would make it clear that the Queen had not given birth before and that he wants this child desperately. Then as the overture merges in the Lilac fairy’s theme, the new-born child is brought out to the King just as dawn breaks. Hence why the King gives her the name Aurora.

Then I would use the March to show the Court celebrating the Christening of the Princess. One of the criticisms of the 1968 production was that the Prologue took place in the Queen’s bedroom – which some critics argued that it made the scene too domestic – so I would set the scene first in the Queen’s bedroom when she is waiting for Aurora to return from her Christening and when the child arrives – the whole court move in procession to the Great Hall.

The entrance of the Fairies will be magical as they fly down via a window in the light of moonbeans after an owl hoots.

I would use Lila de Nobili's costumes for the fairies and Carabosse and her retinue as in my version, the fairy world is slightly out of sync with the mortal world. I would direct the fairies to be ever so slightly feral and eldritch and give off the impression that any one of them could turn on the baby Princess at any moment if she deems herself to be insulted or not invited. It would be purely bad luck that it happened to be Carabosse. In my version, the Lilac Fairy would be the youngest and the most kindly one.  Also there will be 7 fairies not six.

The fairies in this version are based very much on Faerie mythology so hence the Lilac Fairy's curse is based on what she thinks is a hundred years in her world - may not be necessarily the same in our world. Also the Seelie and Unseelie court

When Carabosse appears - the other fairies will remain aloof and neutral as they are powerless to intervene whilst the Lilac Fairy, having not given her gift will hide behind the cradle. She is the most human of the fairies and would have fallen in love with her godchild - whilst the other fairies are doing this Christening in a sort of offhand manner as if they have seen it all before - also the King and Queen would have appeased them beforehand with some sort of a gift, I would use de Valois choreography for the retinue of Carabosse. I would also make it clear in the mime that the Lilac Fairy hadn’t given her gift yet – I always think it strange that the Lilac Fairy gets to give two gifts whereas the others give only one.

I would reinstate the knitting scene as I think that it is crucial and I love the pleading music. I would use the 1946 version of the Garland Waltz. I would use the Ratmansky choreography for Aurora’s variation.

The spindle scene would be like as it played out in the 1968 production without the water butt – I imagine Carabosse tearing her face mask off and revealing herself. I would also restore the whole finale music, giving the opportunity for a real forest to grow. One decision that I would make is for the King to stay behind as he has to rule – this was the case in the original Perrault story.  Then as the music draws to a finish, we again see the child and his Nanny. The nanny is dressed in a familiar colour (Lilac).

Now, this may be a bit controversial so please bear with me on this one. I have been imagining my ideal production in my head for some years - I would set the last two acts in the 1920s. Now before anybody jumps down my throat - no, I was not influenced by Downton Abbey. The reason why I chose that period is partly because I wanted to pay homage to the fact that the ballet only became known in the West in 1921 and the story itself was first written down in the 1590s. Another reason why is I wanted to give the Prince a background and flesh out his motivations - in that he fought in WWI and in order to forget the horror, he has become a member of a set rather like the Bright Young Things. So the hunting party scene would be a scene which it is a shooting party with Bright Young Things bringing a touch of glamour to it. I would use the full court dances and the Farandole will be restored.

I would use the Ashton Prince’s Variation but the Ratmansky choreo for the vision scene as I think it is so magical and romantic. The scene would be lit by moonlight.

I would also like to use the Panaroma that they did in the 1968 production with the fairy boatman and going underground.

The whole music for the enchanted castle will be used and scrims will be used to show the Prince travelling through the castle. The scenery will be based on Gustav Dore. Also Carabosse and the Lilac Fairy will battle each other and Carabosse will die as the Prince kisses Aurora on the hand.

I would use the Awakening Pas de Deux in the following way, When the Lilac Fairy reversed the spell on the Baby princess – she meant it only for Aurora, not for the court. So when she sends the whole court to sleep – the condition that the spell will be broken when Aurora and the Prince fall in love and kiss for the first time which they do at the end of the Awakening Pas de Deux.

Here are my thoughts so far. Hope that I got your imaginations going. Let me know what you think of my conception? The music will be played at the correct tempi and the Ratmansky approach will be used in the dancing, no high extensions and bell shaped tutus

My all time favourite RB version was the Wright/Ashton one with it's stunning sets and costumes that I still find ravishing after looking up colour pictures in  old books this morning.  It remains for me the benchmark of what can be achieved when the production team shares a vision and when the muse looks on and grants her blessing.  Amongst the casts were Fonteyn and Nureyev and Sibley and Dowell and the greatest Carabosse of all time, Alexander Grant with his reptilian tail beneath his black gown.  How I hate the concept of the witch as an attractive woman, totally absurd.

 

 

So the other question, if I got the opportunity to stage my own production what would I do?  Well, my first reaction would be to approach ROH to see if the Wright/Ashton production could be reproduced from original designs and film, failing that I would seek out an imaginative design team capable of thinking outside the box and creating a work with magical elements, something a work concerning fairy tale characters must always have, and I would consider the use of lasers for Carabosse and back projections for the panorama scene.  I would of course retain the traditional RB choreography but would reinstate Ashton's garland dance and awakening pas de deux.  I would hope above all else to create something that people would want to watch over and over again regardless of cast, a true spectacle where people would be transported from the mundane to a world of magic.

I would so happily work with you on that MAB. I would like to see some coloured photos of the 1968 production as I only seen black and white ones.

My ideal production would be set in the Tudor court with the Prologue around the 1540s and Act 1 being set in the 1560s. I would use Lila de Nobili's costumes for the fairies and Carabosse as in my version, the fairy world is slightly out of sync with the mortal world. I would direct the fairies to be every so slightly feral and eldritch and give off the impression that any one of them could turn on the baby Princess at any moment if she deems herself to be insulted or not invited. It would be purely bad luck that it happened to be Carabosse. in my version, the Lilac Fairy would be the youngest and the most kindly one.  Also I would draw on the mythology of the Faery world's time being a lot different than our time - so hence the Lilac fairy's curse is based on what she thinks is a hundred years in her world - may not be necessarily the same in our world.

When Carabosse appears - the other fairies will remain aloof and neutral as they are powerless to intervene whilst the Lilac Fairy, having not given her gift will hide behind the cradle. She is the most human of the fairies and would have fallen in love with her godchild - whilst the other fairies are doing this Christening in a sort of offhand manner as if they have seen it all before - also the King and Queen would have appeased them beforehand with some sort of a gift, I would use de Valois choreography for the retinue of Carabosse.

Now, this may be a bit controversial so please bear with me on this one. I have been imagining my ideal production in my head for some years - I would set the last two acts in the 1920s. Now before anybody jumps down my throat - no, I was not influenced by Downton Abbey. The reason why I chose that period is partly because I wanted to pay tribute to the fact that the ballet only became known in the West in 1921 and the story itself was first written down in the 1590s. Another reason why is I wanted to give the Prince a background and flesh out his motivations - in that he fought in WWI and in order to forget the horror, he has become a member of a set rather like the Bright Young Things. So the hunting party scene would be a scene which it is a shooting party with Bright Young Things bringing a touch of glamour to it.

Here ends part one of my ideal production ideas

I am enjoying this discussion and it is so interesting that people's opinions differ on what production that they have seen.  I don't particularly care for the Lilac Fairy being a non-dancing role but I do like SPW's production very much.

I think that the Royal Ballet will try to hang onto the currect production as it is based on the Messel production which is iconic. I think that the audiences can become apathetic to a production because they know what to expect, which is why I think that ballet companies should change their productions from time to time.

Will I be banned from this forum if I say that I haven't a clue what qualities each fairy is supposed to be bestowing on the infant Aurora?  I always mean to look it up beforehand, and never do.  Each time I go, I think, "Oh, forgot to check.  Never mind, it will be obvious."  And each time I kick myself for not checking.  

 

What has a crystal fountain got to do with purity?  And why is a golden vine fairy associated with positive and negative electrical charges?

 

Why can't they simply call them the Fairy of Beauty or whatever?  Or am I showing my troglodyte upbringing by not being familiar with these things?  

I think that the names of the Fairies comes from the 1921 London production and Ninette de Valois simply continued to use them in the Royal Ballet production.

Like you, I am a bit confused as to why they are called the way that they are - but I must admit they sound very poetic and magical. I think that the gifts that they give depends on production to production.

Here is my take on the Fairy Gifts

1) Modesty and Grace.

2) Intelligence and Honour

3) Beauty and Generosity.

4) Music and Song.

5) Charm and Eloquence.

6) Wisdom

I wonder who it was who originated the idea that Act 1 of SB was the celebration of Princess Aurora's 16th birthday. In fact Petipa's original libretto states that it is her 20th. When you think about it, that makes more sense. Aurora is no teenage bride about to be married off "out of the schoolroom`' but a princess of marriageable age endowed with all the talents bestowed on her by the fairies and just approaching what used to be considered the age of majority. Of course the matter of a woman's age is often liable to be subject to economies of truth, so perhaps Aurora is starting early in this respect.

Maybe it reflects the historical fact that Princesses were considered ready for marriage when they reach puberty. Also the phrase "sweet sixteen and never been kissed" might come into play here.

There is a theory that when Aurora pricks her finger on the spindle, it signifies that she has began her journey into womanhood (namely the start of her periods, if I am allowed to be crude). Sixteen would be a better age for that than twenty when you would expect Aurora to have started her periods long before then.

I liked for instance, the lined up little troubadours, the more demure lifts, Lilac fairy on a stool, and the spectacle of the Garland dance. Fullington and Ratmanskys used the Stepanov notation as much as possible but as they admit, they had to guess at certain details. Even so it is more of a flavour of 'how it was' than many other productions are. Some enjoy that and some may not. I have not seen the mammoth Kirov version which seemed to have vanished from their rep, which also mined the Sergeyev collection.

I saw that Kirov production when it was on at the ROH in the summer of 2001, I was doing my GCSES and Dad took me to London to see it.

I can honestly say that I have never forgotten that production - it was so magical, costumes and the scenery was wonderful, especially the end of Act 1 when the Lilac Fairy puts the castle to sleep. Sveltana Zakharova was dancing Aurora - lucky me.

One of the things that I remember is the curtain rising on the Prologue and you felt that you were watching a wonderful tableau of the court entering to that March. you really felt that you were watching a fairytale.

I'm not quite that old (!) although I believe it was the production shown on Christmas Eve 1968 (?) which awakened my interest in classical ballet as a very small child with music loving parents who thought I might enjoy a bit of it - I watched it all ....

Sorry if I implied anything - I didn't mean to cause offence. I am quite jealous as I always wanted to see that production. What were your impressions of it?

I find myself thinking back (and not too far!) To Ratmansky's attempt at a more 'authentic' (a very fraught term...) SB. I like it for costumes, narrative and its choreographic experiments. Whether in its attempt at reclamation of imagined ballet past is accurate, who knows, but I liked it each time I saw it.

I think that that the Ratmansky production has fair claim to be authentic as it has several passages that are quite similar to the Royal Ballet's earlier productions and Alexei Ratmansky has said that he had studied the notations. One of the glories of that production for me was the Vision scene -- so magical and romantic - it even had the shell balancing.

I don't think that they completely restored the Bakst scenery which was a shame as it was supposed to be magnificent.

The music is an Entracte from the original score. Still have happy memories of the Ashton version being included in the 1977 to 1981 Royal Ballet production. Didn't that also have more of the Court Dances in Act 2? Were the intervals shorter? And am I the only person who misses the Sapphire Variation - Deirdre Eyden used to be absolutely thrilling in that ...

 

(I grow old, I grow old, I shall the bottom of my trousers rolled)

Did you see the 1968 Production?

Hi

 

Sorry if this topic has been done before but with the current run of Sleeping Beauty has set me thinking.

 

What should be considered the best production of Sleeping Beauty ever done and why do you think that? Was it the dancers, the chorographical text or the scenery? Please feel free to give your thoughts on this. I do realise that for most people on here, the Messel production is considered to be the best ever - if so, why is that. Should the Royal Ballet keep that production for ever?

 

Also one final question - if you ever got the chance to produce the ballet yourself - how would you do it? 

Sorry, I just thought of two more questions?

1) What Royal Ballet productions have you seen of the Sleeping Beauty, besides the current one. What were your opinion on them?

2) Why does the Sleeping Beauty have this reputation as the greatest classical ballet, why not Swan Lake or any other ballet?