CHazell2

I just think that this discussion is all something or nothing. It is just a ballet. 

Let's not overthink something too much and just enjoy them

I don't think that this debate is very helpful or constructive. Can we all agree to disagree and enjoy the ballets as they are. They are not supposed to be a reflection of real life and speaking personally, I don't like people who are seeking out reasons to be insulted when there was no offence intended. 

La Bayadere is of its time and whilst it is not my favourite of ballets, I can see its importance in the classical canon, but I don't believe that we should rewrite history in any shape or form. I am a trained historian and one of the things that I was taught is never to project your personal values and opinions onto the past, but instead look through the people who were there.

I think that the problem is too many people think that the past was just like today but it wasn't and we shouldn't erase anything that we find 'problematic' because that wouldn't be a true reflection of how things really were.  Let's not sanitise or bowdlerise the past

I think that the ballets should stay as they are. Far better to let sleeping dogs lie

On 14/01/2024 at 23:05, Emeralds said:

Ashton's Garland Dance/Act 1 Waltz from Sleeping Beauty just came on!  (Don't worry, it's on iPlayer for those who missed it). 😉 

Which episode is that?

4 minutes ago, Irmgard said:

It was not that she did not like the production, it was just that there were elements she did not embrace, such as the mime scenes, preferring to do her own thing which could be rather disconcerting for her colleagues onstage. It would be lovely to have a proper film of the production - the late, great Eva Evdokimova planned to do so in the 1980s but sadly it never happened. 

Could you ask for it to be filmed?

I love this production and I think that it should be filmed for posterity.

I wonder why Cojocaru didn't like the production? Maybe it was too different to the Royal Ballet version.

I hate the hover lift, so showy. I prefer the vertical lift as it is more authentic. 

Are the Giselles doing the diagonal after their Act One solos this time around or the pique turns? As when I saw it in 2017, they were doing the piques, and I just wondered if they were doing the Diagonal again

Hi there

I second what everybody has said above.

Hope that you all have a Happy New Year. Hope that 2024 brings you everything that you desire.

Happy New Year everybody.

Hope that 2024 brings you everything that you desire.

What are your plans for 2024?

Happy New Year everybody. Hope that 2024 brings you everything that you desire.

Think that it has been re-recorded with a brand new cast. I quite like it, adds a new perspective to the story. 

Would love to see a gay version of the story - should be interesting to see. 

4 hours ago, Sim said:

Things can be universal and still be outdated stylistically.   

Why do you think that Checkmate is stylistically outdated - could you explain that a bit further?

8 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

The ballet Le Corsaire is set in Arabia which is East Africa, thousands of miles away from West Africa and the transatlantic slave trade.

From my understanding, Le Corsaire is set in the Aegean sea area between Greece and Turkey. I could be wrong though.

Also, why is Checkmate considered to be outdated? - it is a ballet about a game of Chess, pretty universal I would have thought.

4 hours ago, Ondine said:

 

 

Yet reading that history, how Fokine envisaged the characters, the Moor didn't need to be a Moor at all! 

 

Sleeping Beauty? Aurora is presented at 16 with a choice of suitors.  While not quite an arranged marriage, it's problematic in several ways!

in the 1890 original production, Aurora was 21, the age of majority so it was less of a problem then. I think it has only been within the last few decades that Aurora has been 16 - "Sweet sixteen and never been kissed."

What's wrong with the pony?

I don't think that they are ill treated and it adds a sense of realism to the scene.

Thanks for your reply Ondine. I agree that times are changing but we need to remember the past as well. Some ballets are masterpieces and should be regarded as such.

I don't know whether you know Gilbert and Sullivan but Little Buttercup in HMS Pinafore is described as a 'bumboat woman'. Bumboat | GSOpera - Gilbert and Sullivan Opera 

I love La Fille mal gardee

Just now, Pas de Quatre said:

Sadly people trafficking and modern slavery still exists in many parts of the world. 

Yeah, I know. Sad state of things.

Hi everybody

I was thinking today about how certain ballets seem to be out of favour with today's audiences, I was just wondering what you all thought about what sort of ballets ought to be performed or should be regarded as out of date.

On 22/11/2023 at 12:09, aqualia2008 said:

Ekaterina Borchenko

Oksana Bondareva

Mikhail Sivakov

Andrey Yakhnyuk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Vi3mrs7D0

 

6 minutes ago, aqualia2008 said:

 

There are some fabulous dancing moments here... For example, Borchenko doing fouettés in 43:00 and her Jardin anime variation in 1:18:40

Hi, I think that you have uploaded the same link as the top post

Hi there

Thanks for answering so quickly. I don't know Le Corsaire that well. I love the Jardin anime scene though. It is splendid in the reconstructed Bolshoi version.

I think that it is one of those ballets that ages rather badly, but it does depend on the context. If one sees it in the spirit of a swashbuckling old Hollywood film, then it is very enjoyable. However, we shouldn't rewrite History just because it does not reflect our modern attitudes. 

The Past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.  I would love to see some excepts if the moderators agrees as I don't want to upset anybody. Thanks for offering though.

On 22/11/2023 at 21:06, aqualia2008 said:

This is the Ruzimatov version. They don't perform it anymore. It is the Dolgushin version they perform now.

Hi

What are the differences between the two versions. Would be interesting to know?

Hi everybody

I would be interested to know why the changes to Bathilde's character were made. It is fascinating to learn all this stuff as I love Giselle and I love seeing the restorations that Ratmansky has made and also the Pacific Northwest Ballet's version which harks back to the Justament notes as well. 

I much prefer the diagonal ending to Giselle's Act 1 variation and the vertical lifts in the first Act 2 Pas de Deux. I don't like the press up lifts - I think that they look rather silly.  

I love the Letter Scene - always find it very poetic and moving. It works in a gay context rather well too

Anyway, where's the harm about learning about the different ways that you can love people. Times have changed (thank goodness) and I admire the way that people have become more accepting of gay people. 

Children understand much more than we think

2 hours ago, Sim said:

I think it's a moot point about Alain anyway....I have a feeling we won't be seeing Fille in the UK for a long time.  I do hope I'm wrong, though.

Why do you think that? I hope not too by the way

Wish that I could see it, it is too expensive for me to buy the digital stream