Ruby Foo

I think an attitude of ‘ I’ve no idea how to sing but I’m going to give it my very best shot’ and performing with a sense of fearlessness and confidence counts for a lot. It probably counts for more than having a magnificent voice because having a fearless and ‘ I’m happy to come out of my comfort zone once in a while’ is a wonderful transferable trait that is immensely helpful in the dance world where adapting to new styles, choreography, ideas, teaching styles is all important.

I’m afraid that is not true. The degree is through Roehampton but it’s unique to RBS. In third year, much of the work is done in the studio and therefore you cannot finish it anywhere but RBS. This is what we we’re told by RBS

I also want to mention how important this thread is. There are many threads on this forum that offer amazing, positive and useful advice. We have used it for years and years and grateful thanks to the moderators for making it all happen. The issues on this thread are equally important if not more and have been hidden for years due to legal reasons. Now we can finally discuss what has been going on behind closed doors.

2 points stand out to me from this thread Firstly the issues that cause / have caused distress, both in the immediate and long term are often not always obvious to students or parents whether they are in training or working towards it. For example- imagine if a student was told ‘you can participate in these classes but the teacher will not be looking at you or correcting you. Do you still want to participate ( and pay) for this class?’ Or ‘ You have been accepted to US but you don’t have a good body for the course. Do you still want to accept?’ Or ‘ You look physically this way but the teacher would prefer if you look physically different. Are you willing to change’? Put this way, the issues are no longer hidden and the student has a choice. But the issues ARE hidden and no student or parent can possibly know what will be revealed as the training continues, when or to whom. Secondly, the issues described here, which are students experiences of the schools discussed in the Panorama program, stretch over many decades. Back to 1980.’s I think. Perhaps even further back. I find it extremely worrying that the very same issues are being raised again and again right up to the present day. Schools have definitely improved in some areas over this time, that’s for sure and yet these issues that leave a debilitating impact on students ( and families) are still as prevalent as ever. What conclusions can we draw from this? That the tradition of Ballet Culture ( taking in all that means including companies / international traditions) can’t adapt enough to fully protect children? Or is it simply not willing to ? Protecting pure Classical Ballet ( and weirdly the fashions of physique that surround it) may deem more important.

Thank you for sharing this Peanut. I can empathise and know these issues don’t just disappear when you leave the school or the world of ballet. They are with you in some context for a lifetime. My Dd thought it was completely normal that a teacher never looked or corrected her in class. It was only when I asked her how she liked that certain teacher that she said ‘ oh that teacher never looks or corrects anyone except ? and ? , it’s the same every week. ‘ The rest of us know to work for ourselves in her class on things that we know need to be better because she doesn’t even give us a glance. The quiet kind of abuse that the students accept as part of the course.

This is not true for us. My dd had a relatively happy time at WL. Just like your Dd she was completely made up to be in Upper School. It was a huge honour and she was determined to work her butt off. Sadly, as she is injured now and has been advised not to dance any more she will need to do A levels in order that she can use her training to help others in theirs. That is her wish. Not being able to move limits the relatable areas she might have otherwise leaned towards. Hopefully, discussing these issues helps others in the future.

They can choose to one A level online. There are very few options on which A levels they can choose. There was absolutely NO discussion at any point in year 1 or 2 about what their plan B might be or what their training might lead to in the future I’m not sure where your Dd trains but certainly in my dd’s experience were too tired to trail to the corner shop in the evenings let alone socialise. Any socialising at weekends was mainly done with their friends within the school and the occasional trip once a year to a theme park. Given that most of Saturday was given up to classes , there’s not a lot of time or energy to trail around London. And I am merely discussing our own experience at one particular school discussed on the Panorama programme.

oh, and dreamed it… all those variations over and over…

Another important element is the distance you feel from the ‘ ordinary ‘ world. If you’ve been training at a vocational school from 11 then that world is pretty much the only world you know. Training at the top level is no small deal. You have lived, breathed, talked and ate ballet for years and years. You have in fact become it. That, in fact, is the purpose of RBS not allowing day students at US. To make ballet their complete and utter focus. To shut out any possible distractions. We asked for a day student request and were refused on that premise. This is where I feel ballet and football are very different. A very large percentage of the population can talk about some elements of football. Ballet, on the other hand is a very niche market. Surprisingly, that lack of any decent knowledge about Ballet hasn’t really changed despite the internet. Chat to someone on the bus and say you are training as a Ballet Dancer and you will be met with either complete blankness or the opposite - a completely false understanding of what that means. It’s often a good laugh but not when you are grieving for a good 6/7 years of your life and need to express that to someone. Even counsellors find it difficult to get their heads round what has actually been going on those very important developmental years of your life. Childhood in fact.

I’m sure there will be parents out there right now who see the bad publicity as even more incentive to try for a place and have a better chance, such is this strange world of Ballet. We were warned by several people in the know just what the risks from drinking from that chalice would mean and went ahead anyway. We believed things had improved since the old days. Sadly, they hadn’t.

Exactly. And the later you are assessed out the longer it will take you to catch up.

If you want to go to University to study physiotherapy or law for example, you will need get A levels. And a good set at that!

I’m very sorry to hear this and others that have experienced similar in regular schools. It appears we were lucky in that regard. Much harder to bring the abusers to justice without witnesses. And those often not willing to speak out.

Just to add, through my non dancing kid’s education, they had a huge variety of different teachers through the academic day. Not the same teacher for class every day for a whole year or even two. If my dd could have had a different perspective from a different teacher once in a while, it might have been a more balanced and wholly different outcome.

Whilst respecting your experience, and happy you generally found it to be very well balanced, I find the last paragraph intriguing. I have had 3 other children go through the general education process with 8 different academic schools attended in total( due to husband’s job), and at no time did any child report systematic humiliation and verbal abuse of any sort let alone that which caused them to suffer and breakdown. There was certainly criticism balanced with praise for a job well done, yes. Certainly some teachers nicer/ better than others, yes.Certainly encouragement when things got tricky and most of all respect for fellow human beings even when they weren’t doing so well. There was always clear and transparent communication between parents and teachers and pupils which increased as the university years approached. And plenty chance for pupils to grow as individuals, make their own choices and have responsibility in their future. The biggest difference was the approachability of the schools knowing that if there was an issue it was dealt with quickly and taken seriously even if the outcome wasn’t in your favour. The difference between the 2 is stark. Of course there is much, much more to it than that. All my other kids had little jobs at 15/16 - getting prepared for the world and meeting others/ forming friendships. They socialised at weekends and took part in extra activities after school building confidence and opening their minds to the endless opportunities. They came home every night and were able to offload about their day, relax in different environment and seek help from different sources. They were well rounded, mature individuals because they had been treated as such. They weren’t under curfew, sitting in their rooms talking endlessly about Ballet whilst dreading how a certain teacher would try and humiliate them tomorrow. At one point, during the bullying my eldest child spoke out and told me it was totally unacceptable to leave my dd there. We begged her to leave and she was very close because she was broken, but she believed it would get better. It didn’t.

I will pm you if that’s okay?

My dd had a relatively happy time at WL with a couple of wonderful and talented teachers ( one in particular) who were encouraging annd supportive and bringing out the best in my dd. However, that was not the case for every student which my daughter witnessed. And that’s what this thread is about. Those who are damaged unnecessarily. And it is unnecessary. There doesn’t need to be any assessments if the AD made it his job to know his students by teaching them. Not knowing a student’s name after 5 years is plainly not acceptable and frankly terrible management. If students were treated as individuals, collaborators in their own training they would know themselves, that staying at RBS would not be productive for them. It wouldn’t be some traumatic shock because it would have been discussed in a healthy, positive respectful manner long before the event and students who’s best interests lay elsewhere would have been supported- not just in one, one off meeting, but along the journey, building their relationships with other schools, other forms of dance, choreography, teaching etc. No one needs to be told to leave the year before graduation. There are no replacements in that year so why? Why? Because the graduation year is the representative year for RBS and they can’t show anybody who doesn’t meet the standard. Well, that’s fair but part of that standard is their own teaching and they have to be, at least partly accountable for that. My dd wasted several years being demolished by one teacher and regularly told her ‘ basics’ weren’t there by another. I would ask ‘ why were the basics not there after 3 years at WL? Especially as when she auditioned for the school the AD asked her in the interview for yr9 ’Where did that beautiful technique come from’ ? So where did that beautiful technique go? That is a question. Dd would have accepted she was not to be ‘ shown’ to the world if she could have stayed and finished her degree. She would have traded being invisible to finish her degree. Academic work was always important to her and she worked hard for 2 years to get a degree. The school will tell you they help you after assessment. I would say that’s an extremely generous spin on what actually happens. For a start, they have never bothered to get to know you so they have no idea what you want to do and while they will put you in a studio and film an audition sequence for the schools you’ve written on your list, it is deeply impersonal and its obvious it’s just procedure. There are no meetings with the AD, as I said, he remains an enigma. I also know that after been assessed out students are expected to hang about the studios while others are in rehearsals for their performances. Not a nice place to be or a useful place to be. So the fact that my daughter had a reasonably happy time for some of the years at RBS does not change the fact that the core practices and values do not connect to healthy practices.

There is no feedback. No opportunity to talk to anyone. Its a two line email stating the assessment was unsuccessful.

There were students in my daughters year ( US) who were getting the tuition they paid for. Who were being given the attention they deserve and / need to progress within RBS. They have a positive experience with teachers who ‘care’ and ‘nurture’ Then there are the few who are not. Who, from week 3 of 1st year have caught the teachers eye in a negative way and whose difficulties become an issue that cannot be addressed without bullying or being ignored or not given any performance opportunities whatsoever because they simply can’t be shown to represent RBS/ embarrassment. These minority students will have a very different experience. They have already been negatively marked in some way and are no longer worthy of working with in the same context as the students with the potential. There will be plenty people reading this who will say the usual stuff about ‘ getting used to disappointment’ or ‘this is the ballet world’ etc etc. What I would say is that ALL students that have been accepted to US should be given care and nurture and if difficulties arise then then even more reason to address them and to help that student reach their potential, whatever that may be. Young people are not commodities to be discarded when something more attractive appears. This is a school we are talking about. Not a company.

Just wondering if your dd has time to heat some soup and put it in a flask? There are some reasonably healthy ready made soups out there and she could add microwave noodles which take just a minute. If she had time to make some soup over the weekend and freeze it then even better, but that’s maybe pushing it. There are plenty squat flasks suitable for rice ( 2 minutes in microwave) which she could add chicken or salmon, edamame and soy sauce. Would give her something hot during the winter.

Yes! Yes! Yes! This is exactly it! And the more a student struggles the more help and positivity and motivation and nurture they need - not the other way about! Where did this distorted teaching come from? I asked my dd if, in the year she was beaten down and crushed by the teacher, she had received any positive feedback at all. Any one single positive comment? My dd was very certain that in a whole years tuition(?) the teacher had not said one single positive word to her despite my dd taking the corrections (mostly humiliating) and working on them late into every night trying so very hard to please her. No wonder, she felt couldn’t take it anymore

Well said! Thank you!

Thank you Emeralds for your post and for clarifying. Appreciated. You’re right that she was taken into US not having ‘a suitable ballet body’ ( teacher’s words) ( joint issues) and bullied because of it. She is not dancing now due to a serious injury sustained in 1st year ( due to her joint inefficiency) which may never heal and was insufficiently treated ( independently clarified by private consultants). In all this, there was absolutely no communication from the school whatsoever until the one line negative assessment result. I must also disagree with the idea that institutions abroad are more nurturing and encouraging. They are different, yes. After 3 months in a top European Ballet School my dd would say the body shaming is just unbelievable. She was completely and utterly shocked. It was not directed at her but at others in her class. It seemed to be part of the curriculum and the students seemed to be pretty used to it, which is extremely sad. Having always had the best guidance on nutrition and never witnessing criticism on body shape in all 5 yrs she was at RBS, it came as a very unpleasant experience. She was, however, treated as a mature individual by the AD, who made it his job to know all his students very well. He asked her opinions and her gaols and helped her tremendously. A totally new experience for her after RBS, where the only couple of times she met the AD he called her the wrong name.

This was the clarification Richard. That her body was ‘ very difficult’ for classical ballet. If you have an explanation for the clarification then do please let me know. Because personally that clarification took me 2 weeks of asking, to obtain and left us feeling extremely angry and confused. We are talking about the Royal Ballet School. She had been previously training there for three years.

Perhaps you haven’t seen my previous posts Emeralds. My dd obviously didn’t tick any of the right boxes! She was assessed out after a year of verbal abuse that literally crushed her. As I said before in another post that was shut down, she cried every day that year and more than in the whole of her 17yrs. At one point the teacher in question put a line of 6 girls in 1st cast, a line of 6 girls in 2nd cast and then sniggered to my daughter that ‘ ‘oh dear, looks like you’ll need to be in 3rd cast won’t you?’ Picked up her bag and left the room. There was no 3rd cast. It was a completely unnecessary comment to undermine her already non existent confidence. She was broken that night. Not because she wasn’t good enough to be in the performance but because of the underhand nastiness, the lack of helpful communication. What help was that comment? It did not help her gain more strength/ improve her technique/ gain more artistry. What it did do was humiliate and belittle her. The teacher bullied her in every class for a whole year ( from 3rd week in Upper School) because she was frustrated that my dd was not good enough. The teacher told me she did not have a good body for Classical Ballet. Having been accepted for Upper School, this was fairly concerning. None of this was to do with weight or physical appearance and I stand by my previous post that the messages she was receiving regarding that subject were extremely positive. I do, however completely take your point that a ‘rogue’ teacher, ( I have described one above) who is not part of the health team and not on board with the positive policies of the School can simply cause the worst damage imaginable with their words.