Peanut68

It definitely shows....also in his discipline & ability to take criticism! The strictness & demands of a rugby coach don't come anywhere close to that of our legendary ballet teacher!!

Thank you Cotes du Rhone & Taxi!

I will definitely share this with him if I see him questioning about carrying on! He is at the age where he is showing a distinct interest in certain girls & worrying that his hair looks good

I know it's not a vocational exam.....but wanted to share how proud I am that rugby playing son got a merit for his first ballet exam - RAD Grade 2....& even more proud that he intends to carry on & seems able to shrug off any of the usual teasing from other boys/adults about boys doing ballet!!

Hi - my 10 year old DS (well....not sure he will be a DS in the true Forum DS down the line as he has aspirations of playing Rugby for England!) is the only boy in his now Grade 3 class (very proud of his recent merit in RAD grade 2).

I think he secretly wanted to start dance years ago (as forever dragged around whilst DD did classes) & suspect that secretly he'd actually like to do more such as an associate scheme but is embarrassed as a) doesn't want to appear to be 'copying' his sister & it has not been suggested by dance teachers.....quite probably correctly as it would be unlikely to get full family support (yes - the 'turn him gay' phrase has been uttered!!) & he is also a very tall lad & with frankly terrible feet (think he missed that crucial 'good toes naughty toes' as shown in that cute animation by starting later than most of the girls!) He felt able to start as a male friend from his school class did it & he joined a class with 4 boys. His friend left but my son stuck with it much to me surprise....then he got moved up to Grade 2 as he is a little older than the other boys. I was very worried as this meant he was the only boy.....but - he stuck with it & the girls (whilst there is the usual reticence to hand hold when required stuff typical of any mixed class of 8-10 year olds!) are generally very accepting & nice. Think it does help as there is one particularly beautiful green eyed girl...his first official crush I believe   

Our local dance school is lucky to have boys & has great success with several going on to RBs JA's & SA's, White Lodge & many doing arts/dance related degree courses

I know my son is spurred on too as he can see sports  transferrable skills....he needs speed, co-ordination, ability to jump high & transfer weight in rugby just as much as in ballet & seems quite confident to state he does both! It may well help that he is very tall for his age....I reckon many his age would be too scared to take him on & tease him for doing ballet as he could easily flatten them (though is actually a  gentle giant - bless!).

He is always keen to go watch too....though again other family members think this odd - sigh.

So, good luck, I think it is really important that we bring up sons & daughters to have respect for all sports & all art forms & to embrace the opportunity for them to try all forms & to find their niche!

Not quite the same, but I am just as nervous waiting for son's first ballet exam results...RAD grade 2! Just pleased that he wants to keep up dancing alongside rugby

Yes, the insurance would pay the current year but not subsequent years.  The MDS stays with the pupil through the school (unless they no longer fit the criteria). In my mind this protects and enables the potential of the child which I think it the intention of the MDS purpose.

 

For example, if there is a £30k maximum MDS,  Child A is offered it and family income means parental contribution of £10k / government contribution of £20k.  If the school then gives the other £10k to Child B and then Child A's family income drops so they now need a £25k assistance, where will that come from?  Insurance pays the rest of first year but what about year 2?  Does the school up Child A to £25k (as first child awarded) which now means Child B can't afford it....or does Child A suffer?

Compound that with the fact that the schools would have the added burden of trying keep track of more than one family per fund and it would lead to a mess in no time...

 

I don't see it as a workable solution.  For school bursaries then a pot of money budgeted for by the school can be split however many ways it allows for, but the MDS is different I think.

 

 

There is never going to be an 'ideal solution whilst circumstances can change so readily. I think the whole point has to be that the government actually keep control of the money whilst it is 'awarded' by the school/external judges. There would (& I am sure is) always a contingency for such changes but if accurate (& honest) means testing was done then I guesstimate that when one family's MDS government contribution needed to be increased due to family changes (divorce. job loss, extra siblings etc) there is just as likely to be another elsewhere where there has been a marriage or a promotion etc so there fair contributions would increase.....

I don't know but I think I need one.

I think other people need one to be able to read my mind!!!

Actually it's more noticeable going down the steps - as in point your foot, put it down through the ball into a nicely turned out position and repeat all the way down the stairs!  If you're wearing a party frock and were coming down the grand staircase from the Opera House Crush Bar, in the days when there was a vast mirror in front of you, then you would also hold your head high and hold out the frill on your skirt too and of course admire yourself in the mirror as you're doing so 

Ah....brings back memories....early 20's, first trip to Paris with a  friend...trying to be oh so sophisticated & doing my best 'well, I am a dancer' walk down a grand sweeping stone staircase in the Louve......& yep - you've guessed it.....'ba dum ba dum ba dum ba dum' I think is the sound affect to give you the picture!!!

The audition paperwork definatly says no purple leotards.

Seriously??? Wow - does that mean Lilac Fairy is booted off the cast list of any Sleeping Beauty EYB production???

What.....no mention of cake Petalviolet????

Sounds like a good name for a dodgy tribute act...The Swaybacks...playing all your favourite tunes from S'way back!!! Sorry folks!

Last year it was after auditions... I have a (quite probably entirely wrong!!!! ) feeling that they may well 'have a peek' at potential summer school candidates at auditions....... Happy to be corrected!!!

I think we all slightly wonder about that one!

I do think that maybe they wait til after the forst round auditions to inform about SS places as how awful would it be for DC's to go into the WL or upper school auditions right after receiving a rejection email from RBS Summer School?

Thanks Pictures that confirmed what I hoped and believed.

 

Mumofthree the criteria for funding is a changing commodity so I think you can make plans but the goal posts change and you have to adapt or otherwise with them. For example my dd received a MDS for lower school at the time funding for DaDA was very simple. Everyone got the same for their sixth form training as long as they meet residency criteria regardless of parental income. The year before my dd auditioned for sixth form DaDA funding became means tested with the parental income cap being £70000, the year following my dd being accepted into sixth form the cap was increased to £90000 and the bands for parental income were much greater. So if she had been a year younger our termly contribution would easily cover the current yearly contribution for our income band. At the beginning of her vicational school journey we believed sixth form would be more financially manageable but the powers that be changed the funding. It could all change a number of times before your dd is old enough to audition.

At the age your dd is it never crossed my mind dd would end up following this route. She did her various dance and drama classes because she enjoyed them, they were a good social opportunity and they used up some of her endless amounts of energy. I don't think at 6 you can look at the financial/time input at anything other than what she is gaining now.

Maybe we all just need to assume that all our kids are gonna cost us a fortune in some way or other & just get on that gravy train to earn & save as much as we can from the day they are a mere twinkle in someone's eye!

I agree with you peanut68 - I think to some extent schools probably shouldn't even charge for the auditions but again if there was more transparency with funding then yes maybe fewer would apply and yes maybe some talented dancers would slip the net - but surely this is the case in absolutely any profession where talent is concerned, there's inevitable going to be academic kids who don't end up in academic professions for similar reasons - but I don't see the point in auditioning if you cant afford to follow through with the training and I guess that's why I posted in the first place, I know its impossible to get a finite answer but I would love to be able to sit there with a calculate and say 'yes we'll be able to afford it lets go for it' or 'no this is not possible lets get off this train before any heartbreak'.

  again to some extent my daughter is 6 nearly 7 - she's teeny compared to many and I'm the first to admit so so so many things may change her path/talent/mind but I would like to put a vague plan for the future, we will able to apply for JA schemes next year as shell be 8 next feb so could start a year in sept, but what's the point if we cant afford to continue on that path. yes shell get the training, yes she'll enjoy it but in reality whats the end result? going back to comprehensive school and her talent ends up wasted.

Again - I share your sentiments & concern & you have a level head as regards to knowing the possible changes that may happen along the way to put an end to any aspirations too such as loss of interest, other new dreams, change in body shape/aptitude/injury etc etc... & again - this can be reflected in so many other things such as you say as academic kids missing out maybe as parents don't believe in one type of education/university etc. We all have examples I am sure from our own histories!

But like you, I just wanted to get 'a realistic handle' on the whole thing to manage dreams/expectations & perhaps even forward plan a little. Do I for instance just get back into fulltime career focussed work to negate reliance on funding? But then at what family life cost? The old life/work balance issue is even more in focus once you look at paying for al that dance & other such activities cost in terms of money & time......sigh.

Wise words Mumofthree.....there are so many factors at play.

If awarded an MDS, household income is looked at with a small adjustment made for additional dependant children/those in full time education etc. However - it can never hope to reflect each individual set of circumstances. A minefield too when you look at such factors as geography as we all know that to have a very basic home/lifestyle can cost considerably more depending on where you may have to live (& we cannot all just up sticks & move based on one childs ballet dreams!). Also we parents all want to treat each offspring the same & provide equal opportunities & fair use of income. However, this is unlikely to be possible if a high contribution to fees for one DC has to be made....Could lead to sibling resentment etc.  The current system does also presume that parents are willing to make a contribution. I do worry that there must be umpteen children out there dearly holding the dream to train but who are not even allowed the opportunity to try as parents not happy/not able (as may already be financially committed despite a very high income) to let them audition/take up places.

I pity those families with multiple talented (in whatever field) children who each deserve additional training!

Good luck & best wishes to everyone!

Katymac - as you seem to be the original 'Spreadsheet Queen' maybe you should produce some software to flog to us less organized ballet parents! A Ballet App perhaps where all summer school/audition info etc can be uploaded from one site/cloud (am trying to get with the times here.....  )

I should perhaps have added into my first post that it is great that there is this government funding for dance training. I guess my main thrust was that there does appear to be inconsistencies & a somewhat 'cloak & dagger' approach to info/decisions etc. It only appears 'simple' when looking at RBS as all places can potentially be funded. This lack of upfront knowledge does make it hard to manage family & DC expectations - maybe fewer would audition which would be bad as talent may be missed who may just have got that funding (& cynically - sorry! - schools would make less money from the audition fees charged)

I certainly hope all with the fire in their belly & the passion to follow their dreams carry on & try for those places this year. And as the saying goes....if at first you don't succeed, then try, try again!

My big issue with MDS funding....it seems that the 4 schools each have a certain number they can give out each year. This is not at all transparent - though I very much think it should be. It appears that at RBS - & perhaps Elmhurst too? - all who qualify for school year 7-11 entry (roughly ages 11-17) & based I believe on Euro/UK residence qualifying period of 3 years, will be awarded an MDS. They will then be means tested & the amount the government pay will be on a sliding scale so the more affluent a family the higher the contribution towards training they pay.  With the other 2 schools they will then have a handful of MDS to award across the age groups. Seems fair so far? BUT, we all know the more affluent a family does often mean the more prepared/experienced/trained the DC's may be. They may have benefitted from one to one coaching, lots of course/associate schemes/summer schools & the support of parents who can afford to drive them around the country to train. So a DC with raw untrained talent/ability/potential may not be the 'best' at audition due to circumstance & lack of opportunity. Now, I have no problem with the places (& even the funding) being offered to the best first. This is as it should be. BUT, if many of these then attract very little funding due to high family income, then this money 'saved' by the government should go back into the funding pot & be able to be re-offered by the schools to other candidates. There could well be some years when RBS for instance may be sending the government a comparatively small bill for funding for one intake year as that year the most talented by & large were fairly well off. another year, there may be more variance & so the bill to the tax payer is much larger. This seems a bizarre way to offer funding & must make it impossible for a school to predict cash-flow/manage costs (& thus possibly rely on offering a certain number of places to those who can pay full fees & accept a place pre-funding auditions) . Surely the fair thing is for the schools to have a set amount of funding each year that can be allocated - the more higher fee paying pupils should just mean they can then offer more funding places to lower income families too. I think it unlikely that one year all accepted would be affluent.....I think better that no offers can be made until after funding auditions. So all 4 schools should operate a 2 round audition cycle with places being offered strictly on talent/potential . The schools will know their 'income' is guaranteed as they have a set amount that can come in via funding....if more MDS are awarded to lower income families. I bet the 'flex' from year to year would be very minimal. The other thing in my opinion is that this needs to be 'policed' much more stringently as stories abound of people 'hiding' income/partners/fathers etc to reduce their household income threshold & thus lower their personal bill & get more paid via MDS. Again, gossip may not be founded in truth, but whilst everything is misty as far as funding, then this will long continue. Why all the secrecy? All the stories of 'well, boys will get funding over girls' etc etc? Lets face it, it deems currently just 4 schools worthy of support so the maximum really they are looking at as possible recipients is what 12 girls/12 boys across them per year? That's less than 100 children per year. Unlikely that all 100 will be UK MDS qualifiers as several of the best kids accepted will be from overseas. So, taxpayer bill is lower already. Then sure, one year may see the demographic mix is higher proportion of lower income families requiring more MDS money but I bet my bottom dollar that in another year this will be offset as it just so happens that more talented kids hail from richer families so the bill to support that group annually will be less. Surely this is the only way to offer funding fairly?

Or maybe go to some sort of talent competition & award the money in principle to the child first who can then with knowledge of level of funding  available to them then audition where they can afford/are best suited (as this may entail things like location too) & it can be more of a joint selection process between the government, the schools & the individual dancers too? This could possibly open up funding to be used at other worthy establishments also (though I do think all training institutions/programmes should meet set criteria & certain standards).

I think key to all this is to make more funding in schools etc available for all children to have the opportunity to try dance (& this same principle I think could be applied to funding for music/sports etc) to find those naturally talented individuals & nurture them in a fairly funded programme whilst young to try & create a more even playing field where talent speaks louder than cash!

Apologies all...this is rather a long (& possibly muddled) statement, I by no means wish offence to anyone, just interested in discussion!

One Q maybe someone can answer....does the government publish data on the MDS funding year on year? Also, do the schools? I am sure this is information should be available in the public domain (& available without the secrecy & subterfuge it appears - at least to me - to currently have?). I do commend families who find the money 'come what may' & also all those other funding bodies such as the schools own bursary schemes, other charitable fund providers & benefactors who make it possible for our DC's to be working on achieving their dreams!

Used Airbnb when needed to be in London for DC last year...only caution is, there is always the risk of them 'changing' your accommodation. The flat we had booked - & paid huge sum for as was in Covent Garden - several months before suddenly became 'unavailable' but we could have another close by....one of the initial ones we rejected when looking at all options on the site! Very disheartening & I suspect a ploy...hook you in with a beautiful looking place, take your money, then right before when they know you are going to have no option, push you to the (in my opinion) less attractive/quality flat.

I think I might be tempted if I were you to go with the good old trusty Premier Inn option. Book early enough & prices good - even in London. Or maybe look at an option just outside (though budget in then the cost of travel in....) I have stayed often in Hemel Hempstead West. Really good - nice staff who all seem to have been there the 2 years I have been visiting. Food good too. A short drive to Hemel Train Station then train to Euston. Or apparently you can use on the train Oyster/travelcards from Watford Junction short drive on so cheaper for travel.I think there is actually a Premier Inn there too - so perhaps could work out cheaper there & your car would be able to be left in car park. Another I have used for this purpose is Premier Inn at Edgware. Free to leave your car in their car park (you have to ok it & leave reg no) then short walk to Edgware tube. Seemed full of builders & their vans so less 'family' & as we arrived late did not want to enter the at that time very bawdy bloke bar/restaurant I must say, but it was very easy for in/out of London & again you might get a cheap rate in advance. Good luck & hope your DC enjoys the LCB tour!

Oh dear - I am totally spreadsheet phobic....but I do see the benefit; particularly if I could present one to Hubbie with a cost/needs/benefit analysis to highlight just why a DC at vocational school still requires dance in the school holidays! I need to speak his language for him to perhaps understand ours? Any advice appreciated.... & if anyone wanted to share with me a spreadsheet template/example that would be just fantastic....please PM if anyone is happy to assist - thanks in advance!

Has any one else 40+ ever been brave (or just plain foolish) enough to use the communal changing room in Primark? I have to say the open looks of horror & the giggles were awful....wish I'd been able to just hold my head high (or better still - looked great in the same clothes they were trying....but enough of fantasy.... I promise I had picked only the frumpiest offerings to try on!). I have learned the thing to do is pick up items in 2 sizes & 2 colours - take home to try on & decide then return what's no good! Guess it got me thinking how I behaved to 'old dears' when I was young & (I like to think!!) gorgeous!!!

My just turned 10 year old son is seriously planning to be a top rugby player (& at 5'3" seems built for it!) but has also just done RAD Grade 2 ballet & intends to keep up dancing alongside rugby as he knows it gives him strength, suppleness, great jumping, speed, co-ordination & balance - key skills needed for both of these sports!

Good to see clips like this - thank you!

Peanut68 sorry to hear of your experiences and happy that you got away and your DC is happy now.

 

I'm in a situation myself currently and have felt trapped by what seems to be the best thing for DD's training versus my morals and principles regarding bullying and getting out of a situation.

 

Sometimes we have to be so strong to weigh everything up and make the right decisions

I think you mentioning morals & principles is really key - there are always some in all walks of life who seem not to share the general accepted standards. & sadly they often 'get away with it' as those who suffer from this do not want to make a fuss or be tagged as a snitch or trouble maker. I do think though schools need to make it very clear what will & will not be tolerated & also kids & parents need to know how to & to whom to communicate about such issues & just what the procedures that will be followed are. Good luck with resolving any troubles for your DD - stay strong! I am a believer in what goes around comes around....we can move away from a nasty individual...they will always have to live with themselves & the knowledge of what they have done....I do believe that everyone does have the same moral understanding, just not always the same manners.....but deep down, they will know they have done wrong & quite probably will suffer inwardly for it long after we have all moved onwards & upwards!

Bullying in any situation is awful....a stop needs to be put to this as otherwise she will continue to be damaging to others & will also be a very damaged individual in the long-term. My DD's time at a Voc school was completely ruined by a manipulative & nasty child. Her behaviour included doing /saying mean things then accusing my DD & others od doing just the thing she had done....& she seemed always to be believed by staff! Whilst no proof, I undoubtedly believe it was her who left a very sharp map pin under the duvet on my DD's bed - the steel pin pointing up right where one would sit down....I was only glad that I found it whilst placing a teddy in her bed rather than my DD finding it - either by sitting on it/finding it in her bed & any resultant injury that could have happened. Or even if no physical injury occurred I do think this sort of thing is what could cause mental scars & trust issues. The Houseparents frankly were inadequate in my opinion - suggesting it 'must have blown there'....what? Under a duvet???? & there was no board & no pins in the vicinity of DC's area.....but the nasty kid in Q had a board & map pins in hers...hmmm. I requested my DD was not told as I did not want to traumatize her...frankly, I did agonize about whether I should even leave her there that night or ever again.... A meeting was apparently had with the dorm (excluding my DD) telling them that a pin was found in a bed & letting them know that a parent was worried it might have been a deliberate act  but really I think they should've gone in hard line to try & get a confession from the culprit (pin just blew there....& the duvet blew over the top of it.....yeh, right) Kids should be in fear of being chucked out of any school for such bullying behaviour/assault as my DC & yours have suffered. I would like to add that this child in question even continued after my DC left the school by extending into social media bullying. My DC like yours received backing from others - former schoolmates posted comments saying how mean it was of this girl. My DC swiftly 'blocked' her & I think wised up quickly to the dangers of stupid online tagging. I wrote a hundred letters to her parents in my head, but life is too short to waste time on these pitiful non-entities. I only hope she one day realises just how mean & cruel she was & hope that that moment has already come & her current dorm mates (if she is still at voc school) are not similarly suffering. DD left that school without a backward glance....& is now extremely happy elsewhere.

No - that was me ranting as have never got it off my chest before! Apologies all!

I think the way a school - whether full time or part time - deal with these issues of bullying is key....you must go to the teacher. She must deal with it to YOUR satisfaction.

Good luck!

DC given a terrifying verbal verdict from a (non dance specialist) Podiatrist - "oh well, if you've got this then forget ever thinking about being a dancer long term". NOT very helpful. However, actual physical advice was much more helpful; rolling on frozen filled plastic small coke bottle (shape esp good) + spikey foot massage balls & taping up with special tape in certain way which kind of 'cradled the foot & heel' which seemed to hold foot & train body into better positioning to reduce pronation (rolling). After a short period of this it improved dramatically & you can even see much better arch raise in regular standing/walking since - corrected bad gait/stance habit. Occasional minor flair ups since - have noticed these seem to coincide with growth spurts. I do think some GP/medical advice can be less than helpful when they do not know of or understand the specifics of dance training. Also, the mental damage they can inflict when they say 'give up' try another sport' etc.is quite soul destroying. I think many do not differentiate from a regular kid doing an activity once a week to DC's who lets face it are full-on training athletes!