Kate_N

If the foundations are laid, slow and steady, and there's good progress at associates schemes, then maybe relax about the exams? 

I think sometimes people start to let "the tail wag the dog" if you see what I mean. Without meaning to, we can start to see exams as the aim. But we do know really, that doing exams isn't the aim of learning ballet. Exams are simply a formal measure of progress. Your DD can progress without exams at all! Lots of schools (more usually in the USA, for example), don't do ballet exams at all.

There was a separate thread about this (just as well, as specific queries tend to get a bit lost on this thread).

Intermediate Foundation as an adult?

Wonderful news! Congratulations to your daughter. 

23 hours ago, Coated said:

 

 

He had recommendations for Pineapple Studios in central London and also looked at Trinity Laban in Greenwich which is easier to get to for him.

 

Is Trinity Laban a good place for someone like him? Are there any other alternatives he should consider near Plumstead or Sidcup?

Pineapple has the MT showbizzy sort of ethos, and I'd say Trinity Laban is better for contemporary/modern dance. For more serious dance study in central London, my preference is Danceworks. Hannah Frost is excellent at introducing complete beginners to the basics of ballet. She goes through the basics of alignment at the beginning of every class, and teaches a lot of good conditioning & alignment exercises at the start of the barre (including getting your proprioception tuned up by asking us to stand on one leg with our eyes closed - really difficult).  - she teaches a Beginner's class on Wednesdays, Fridays & Saturday afternoons at Danceworks, plus a very basic Beginners at Central School of Ballet (near Farringdon) Friday evening which she says is an easier class than the Danceworks one. Her approach is slow & steady - I love her classes, although we don't move as much as I'd like, but the foundation is very secure & I learn something new every time I take her class.

But these are drop-in classes, with a different group of people each time they meet. They're great for someone like me, who gets to London once or twice a month, so I don't have to make a regular commitment.

For someone learning from the start, the BEST thing for him to find would be a proper Absolute Beginners, termly-enrolment style course. The ones I know of that I've heard people speak well of are:

Morley College  (south London, nr Waterloo I think)

City Lit (at various locations, north London/Islington I think)

Royal Academy of Dance (Battersea)

English National Ballet (South Ken)

There are probably others ...

You pay upfront for a term of lessons, but you then follow a carefully graded syllabus, so you learn all the confusing bits from the start. 

I have my mother staying with me (she lives on another continent) and I haven't seen her in person for about 18 months - she was having occasional short term memory loss then, but it has deteriorated very badly since. She's still her, but diminished in little ways, and diminishing in memory & energy (she's 82). I'm not sure she can live independently for much longer. It's a really really tough way to live, and hard for those around you. 

Oh Fiz, so sorry to hear about the loss of your father. No matter how much a death is inevitable and expected, it is always a huge shock. Hope you & your family can take care of each other. 

8 hours ago, Viv said:

Any words of advice? How to go all out for an hour, sit around for 5 hours, and then go all out again in IF which is already incredibly physically draining? 

Cross-training in preparation? Dancers have strength & flexibility but often lack aerobic fitness. Could you swim, or race-walk, or run or cycle in a gradual training timetable - almost as if preparing for a marathon  ?

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RAD elementary years ago was in my view (and DD's examiner teacher agrees) harder than the current intermediate. And considerably less exciting and beautiful! I still have the occasional nightmare about being asked to do the set adage en dedans with a rise at the end

There was a question on the first page about the "old" and current syllabi - as I remember it, the old Advanced was near to professional level, and then professional performance standard was achieved via the Solo Seal. I did Cechetti Advanced syllabus classes occasionally, and the repertoire called for all the skills. I particularly remember pirouettes in fifth from a grand plié, and the beautiful adage to some Mozart music with the renversé (forget which number that one was).

I think the RAD has watered down the vocational grades, to accommodate 3 times a week pupils. When I was doing these clases, the studio offered a mix of (old) Intermediate and Advanced 4-5 times a week. What they've done is to elongate out the steps - so there is a Foundation step, then Advanced is split into two steps. When I studied in graded syllabi (20-30 years ago!) those steps didn't exist. And it was quite a jump from Elementary to Intermediate. But you expected to stay for 2-3 years in each step.

So that's a day when I try vainly to stay at home writing, but end up entranced by the Bolshoi morning class with Maestro Akimov, watching his gorgeous long legs and beautiful musicality. I often prefer watching him teach than watching the current dancers, I'm afraid!

Oh I know the difference between a live simulcast and the replay ("Encore"). What I meant is more basic, that a live broadcast is NOT a live performance for anyone except those in the actual theatre where the performance is taking place. The other so-called "live" performances are actually mediated, not live.

The very fact that theres a misunderstanding here (or that you think I've misunderstood which is not the case!) demonstrates the way that calling  these mediated simulcasts "live performances" middies the waters.

Yes, it's not the nicest cinema, but the picture & sound were good.

Although I rarely attend these screenings - I am sceptical of the ways they are sold - they're really not "live" and I think that they have the potential to suggest to big national subsidised companies that simply performing in London, and then simulcasting, is enough. It's not.

Most people in the UK don't live in London, and for decades arts policy-makers, artistic directors, and other funders have ignored that obligation to all of the UK. 

There are 3 cinemas in my town that show RB, and other simulcasts eg National Theatre Live. They vary in price between up to £22 (or even £30 for New York Met Opera live simulcast) to £13 at the local Odeon.

Yes, it's wonderful when children find their thing. I hope he enjoys the extra lessons and coaching.

Ballet is ballet is ballet. Both RAD and Cecchetti are fine syllabi, they teach & name some things differently, but at 10, that might be an interesting challenge for a child, and also show them that there's more to ballet than one syllabus. For me (I studied both a bit, but get seen as a Cecchetti dancer) Cecchetti is a bit "dancier" but RAD has such lovely simplicity. But if your friend is a good teacher, she can explain that across the ballet world, some things are done differently by different people. But good ballet is good ballet.

16 hours ago, TYR said:

 

He might be around another week I think, but I don't think he's leading on Sunday.

Oh, that's a pity. I really like his classes - the teaching, the corrections, and the rude jokes.

5 hours ago, TYR said:

 

"Don't imitate anyone unless you want to end up like a Danceworks ballerina!" [even for RP's standards he was unusually catty last night]

 

He used to teach at Danceworks!   I always did his Sunday class there when I was in London.

But he's just come back from Germany - he may need to let off a little steam.

oh is Renato back? I loooove his classes - might have to dash on Sunday to take the Sunday afternoon one - although I was there a fortnight ago, and  it was Antonia Francheschi standing in - who was a-may-zing. Wonderful teacher. 

But Renato's corrections are legendary. I remember him once going all round the class touching our necks or shoulders to see if we were sweating yet. We had to keep on  doing tendus until everyone was sweating. But he is a genius teacher - I always come out of his class having discovered more turnout.

MAB, I was simply commenting from my point of view. I'm not sure why you are seeing it as an attack, or why you are taking such a hostile tone. My post was just offering a different perspective, and I was explaining how I come to that perspective. A plus ça change observation.

Yes, Geoff, I recognise this pattern as well! I don't live in a farming community now (but have done), but speak as an historian of the performing arts (my day job) - the kinds of mix of speculation, gossip, fact, and comments by people "in the know" and comments about those who are "in the know" and those who aren't, are historical givens. Commentary/speculation that we see on this thread has always happened - it's a way for audiences to feel connected to performers, for regular spectators to feel special, and just generally the human instinct to think about others' intentions and actions - we are social animals after all!

I'm writing at the moment about the whole journalistic genre of "in the know" writing in Victorian magazines & newspapers - taking readers to that normally hidden area backstage, telling them about the "real" private lives of their favourite performers, explaining the so-called mysteries of the theatre profession. It's all there, just as it is all here in this thread 

People can speculate all they want,

48 minutes ago, fromthebalcony said:

 

People can speculate all they want

Thanks for reminding us that most of the discussion on this thread is just that - speculation! And an interesting view from across the pond.

Yes, one of the greats. I was in one of his plays at university, and directed another while at university - his use of language is extraordinary. It's both spare & colloquial, but has a deep background of poetry - his lines are just wonderful to say.

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ENB was a superb company under Wayne Eagling, I feel Tamara Rojo should have considered herself privileged to inherit a company led by the likes of Vadim Muntagirov, Daria Klimentova and Elena Glurjidze - all of whom have left.

In my experience - of seeing several theatre and dance companies "backstage" as it were - it is quite normal for artists to move around. To me, it shows that there's a healthy international creative atmosphere, and confidence that dancers can move around. Dancers particularly, spend a lot of time training very hard, being very quiet in doing what they're told all through their training. It's not surprising that as they find their individual confidence and capacity as artists (not dance automatons!) their focus might change (extreme example: Sergei Polunin- but think also of Sylvie Guillem). 

We have some companies which become career-long places - the Royal Ballet & NYCB & ABT might be the prominent examples - but that doesn't have to be the only model of a ballet company. Many contemporary dancers are much more mobile, for example. 

And I seem to remember many controversies (& similar speculation/gossip to that in this thread) about the "happiness" of the company under Wayne Eagling ...

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Here the gender pay gap is tilted well in the direction of the female.

Well, that might be - although Rojo is running a large touring company and appearing as one of its principal artists. 

But let's not let her higher salary blind us to the glaring fact that she is the only woman in that list. All the other ADs you list are men.

That's a question a bit like "How long is a piece of string?"

It depends ... but generally a BFA will be a far better training for teaching. However, some BAs will give you what you need. It depends on the college, the curriculum, the quality of the teaching.

How much do you know about the dance world? Usually the best teachers are those with a thorough professional training, and generally some performance experience. I think you need to get to class, at a serious studio, give it a year and then reassess your life goals in response to the learning you've done, and the information you've received. Serious study of ballet is very hard work. It's not the dream of pointe shoes & tutus. Bad teaching from inexperienced teachers can injure people, so you need to get the best training you can find in your current personal circumstances, then assess your goals in the light of that training.

Ashleigh, I'm a moderator on the US site (altho' I'm based in the UK): it's called Ballet Talk for Dancers. There's a large group of very knowledgeable & friendly adult ballet student posters there (some of whom post here as well). There's also very good information about college study of dance in the US. It's mostly aimed at those students who've studied ballet throughout their teens, and are looking for a good college degree in Ballet or dance more generally. I'd recommend spending some time browsing there - but a warning: it's addictive!  

The difference between a Bachelor of Arts and a Bachelor of Fine Arts in the US (not the UK) is generally (but can be slightly different in each university), that a BA is a standard liberal arts degree over 4 years, in which you take a range of courses - including compulsory ones such as a language, some science, Freshmen comp, etc) - where by your Junior (3rd) year you specialise or "major" in a particular area.

A BFA is a much more focused degree with much of your learning through studio practice, in acting, dance, design, music etc. They are highly practically-oriented degrees, which often don't enable you to go on to a postgraduate (Graduate school) degree except the Master of Fine Arts (MFA). They are still 4 years, but instead of a widespread of subjects studied in your Freshman & Sophomore years, you'll focus from the start on your  chosen art form. There are some excellent BFAs in dance/ballet in the US, which give students the training they need to dance professionally as performers, but the really good ones are very competitive. It is unlikely you'd be offered a place as a beginner dancer.

College education in the US is very expensive, I know, so you might need to do some hard thinking and some sums, and come up with a game plan for the next 10 years. 

I think the first thing to do is find the best training you can, start going to ballet class 3 times a week, and also find a mode of cross-training which suits you (it sounds like that's weightlifting) and gradually increase your number of ballet classes so that eventually you're able to manage 5 or 6 a week. But that might take you at least a year. Ballet is quite hard on the body if your body hasn't had the training since your pliable child/early teen years. So take it slowly & don't develop bad habits in the effort to get your leg higher etc etc! Bad or sloppy technique generally leads to injury, once you start training intensively (and I'd say more than 5 classes a week for a 28 year old is intensive training).

You should be looking for a good school which trains children to go on into the dance industry, with a ballet focus (not the Dance Moms style "competition school"). You should look to see what their adult programme is, and are there levels through which you can progress. Then after 6 months or so, if it's feeling good, talk to your teachers there about your ambitions. I've seen quite a few young people (early 20s) start off in adult classes and progress through the levels and go on to further professional training. It can be done, but it will be slow, and you need to be open to thinking about many alternatives in terms of where you might end up.