Sadielou

Perhaps Mr Powney should take a look at the biographies of the international scholars on his own web page, all of whom have entered and won major prizes at "unethical competitions" performing age un appropriate pas de deux's and solo's on pointe. Perhaps this contradictory information should be removed from the web site in light of his recent statement.

15 hours ago, Anna C said:

 

If I remember rightly, the reason that RBS Upper School students don’t attend PdL is that one of the prizes was for a scholarship place at RBS.

This makes sense for the younger students who are looking for Upper school scholarships but what about the Grad students ? At least 8, if not more RBS Grad students will not be offered jobs with either the RB or BRB and therefore will be looking for contracts / apprenticeships like all the other same age students world wide. There is no reason these older students should not at least have a chance to compete for jobs or network at the Prix de Lausanne, especially if Mr Powney continues to endorse this ethical competition. In my opinion it is either apathy on the part of the RBS or a fear that their training may not stand the rigours of the competition circuit. Scholarships are given to the John Cranko School, Monaco, Zurich, Vaganova to name but a few, this doesn't stop these schools from actively entering their own students. 

Of course "incredible competition winners" should get places at top training institutions RBS or otherwise. But any of the top schools can still be entered by the conventional audition method and scholarships at any of these schools always seem to available for the most talented. There was an article in Pointe magazine a few weeks ago on the expense of successfully entering competitions. Initial entrance fees, the cost of travel and lodging for the student, chaperone and also apparently a coach who is expected to be on hand for training sessions and to network with the judges on their students behalf. Add studio hire and costumes and the bill runs into thousands. Surely it would be to the advantage of all if, these competitions were just attended for experience, fun and a medal for the kudos of winning. Leaving the scholarships / apprenticeships to be given out at conventional auditions. All foreign students are able to send in video auditions to schools and companies to wave the cost of attending preliminary auditions,  surely the cost of one trip to the school or company of your choice is far more viable (especially for those in monetary need of a scholarship) than the horrendous expense of a competition.

In view of his statement, there is no reason for Mr Powney to attend these competitions, ethical or otherwise. Those students that can afford to enter competitions, now a great expense. could probably save money by simply flying to London and attending auditions along with everybody else. Mr Powney should spend his time with his own students, foreign or otherwise, and make sure that his own training methods attain the standard required for a healthy career in dance.

I have posted this in the comments section under Mr Powney's statement will very interested to see wether it is shown.

I totally agree with everything in Mr Powney's article, but this is not new, most ballet professionals have been saying the very same thing for years. So how is it that this has only just dawned on Mr Powney? Especially since that in his capacity as the director of the RBS he has spent much of his time travelling back and forth to Australia, Japan, Spain, France and America to teach master classes and adjudicate, often as head judge, at YAGP the biggest and most exploitive competition of them all. Last March the 14 year old winner of the Paris leg of this competition was offered a scholarship by Mr Powney and began training at the  RBS upper school in September this year, at least a year earlier (if not more ) than the required age of 16. How does Mr Powney explain this in the face of his recent enlightenment ?     
How does Mr Powney expect ballet students and their parents to feel about competitions, since during his tenure as director, nearly all the students that have been singled out in recent RBS performances and have gone on to take Royal ballet company jobs, have originally been head hunted and given scholarships from the various competitions Mr Powney has attended. All to the detriment of the students that have been training in the way Mr Powney is now advocating. Mr Powney himself has perpetuated this competition culture in his high profile position as director of the RBS often attending competitions rather than being present at his own schools auditions. Of course aspiring dancers and their parents have started seeing competitions as the only way in. And it appears that although the RBS is no longer endorsing YAGP Mr Powney will continue to perpetuate the competition culture by sitting on the panel of judges at a new competition, the IB prix in Barcelona taking place in February 2019. This competition will be attended by some of the very same school and company directors that attend YAGP, but as the competition directors of IB prix have published a few pointe work rules and added the word ethical several times, I guess this makes this particular competition ok. Seems very hypocritical to me.  It will be very interesting to see where the 2019 intake of RBS students originate from. Will they be the students that have been slogging their way through Mr Powney's advocated training program or will they be yet another batch of (now ethical) competition winners?  I am not holding my breath.

As far as I know he will be doing both.

Ernst Meisner is the new director of the Dutch National ballet Academy.

As the Director of the RBS was very recently heavily involved with YAGP - He has acted as, the head of the jury, been on the board of judges and taught master classes in Australia, Japan, Barcelona and the NY finals. We can only presume there must have been some kind of falling out between the two establishments, unless YAGP have radically changed their rules this year so they are no longer ethically in line with the RBS training !

Performance opportunities, competitions etc are not a basis for being hired  and those that are good enough will find employment regardless of where they have trained and what courses they attended. However I do think that performing is an essential part of a ballet students training and if this is denied them then they will of course be less confident on stage and in an audition situation than those that have have had a wealth of performance opportunities throughout their training. 

The BA is a very small part of the NBA students training - I think one at most two practical (music, ballet history ) lessons a week (if that) was originally the only difference between the two courses. Trainees didn't have to do the practical lessons, either because the country they came from did not require them to carry on with their education or that they had already finished similar courses before arriving in Amsterdam (several of them were older and had already done a grad year in their previous schools) and others were carrying on with their education via the internet.  As far as I am aware the Dutch students in levels 5/6/7 NBA are still attending normal education in the mornings as required in Holland ( similar to our UK junior vocational schools) therefore they will obviously be doing less intense training (due to time constraints) than the BA's or Trainees who are essentially Upper school students. 

The biggest problem with NBA and probably (only my opinion) the reason for the mess, is that there has been no logic as to which courses students have been placed on. As said there are talented and weak students on all. There is also quite an age gap throughout all the courses. For those of us used to students being placed in age/year groups it all seems very confusing and in many cases quite random. 

If you look at the NBA website the Trainee program has now been removed, The Summer school page says that that this year it was being run by Movart productions, but in 2019 will return to the NBA studios. The Trainee course now has its own website under Movart productions.

For everybody's benefit lets hope all gets sorted soon and the students and teachers don't suffer any fall out.

In answer to dancing sisters -

Nobody knows Jean Yves side to the story - or even what the story is, and as said it was him that would have been in charge of auditions and placements going into 2018 /19 - It was never said that Ted Brandson had anything at all to do with the school or who was given places or on what course. All we know is that he is standing in, basically as a figurehead in the interim whilst Jean Yves is being investigated.

Re:  The school performance - I can only compare with 2017 and in my opinion I thought this years show was an improvement - I think considering all had such a sort time to rehearse and put a show together, the NBA teachers did an amazing job. You are of course welcome to your opinion - we all see things differently. As your picture above.

As far as the trainee program is concerned - as you said all trainees are from outside the Netherlands. Until the middle of the last school year the Trainee course and BA course ran alongside each other, all rehearsing together in the afternoons. However as the trainees rehearsed separately in the mornings, the BA's were always on their back foot when they joined rehearsals in afternoon,  always having to play catchup. It therefore worked to their advantage when the split came as the BAs / Level 7 were able to learn and rehearse pieces from the beginning as a group - without being left on the sidelines as 2nd cast.

I don't think it is a fair assumption that the Trainees are "the top"  There are some stand out students on both courses and also on both courses those in need of further training.

Last year the students that got into the Junior Company were all originally from the BA program and the same for the one boy that got a place this year. When the Junior company needed extra dancers for their last tour, they used students from the BA course and I think a boy from level 7. The trainees / BA's and level 7  are all a mixture of ages going from 16 to 20 the older students from each course will be be auditioning for professional jobs - and therefore surely should all have the same advantages and chances to perform,  not just a focus on one group of students. You can surely understand the frustration of the Dutch parents / students. 

You only need to look at the Youth American grand prix and Prix de Lausanne web sites to see how many (of these prodigies ) are currently working in companies. Only this week both sites published congratulations to alumni who have either been offered their first contracts or who have been promoted within their current companies. 

Ballet is now becoming more elitist than ever, very few ballet parents I know could go to the lengths needed to ready their child for some of these international competitions. Daily private coaching, costumes, travel, accommodation, audition photos, videos even the entrance fees in some cases are extreme. Therefore unfortunately many talented children are reliant on MDS awards / scholarships from the junior sections of the UK vocational schools and being very badly let down. How can you seriously expect year 7 and 8's that are literally doing single pirouettes from parallel and galops from the corner (RAD grade 1 level) to compete with those that are doing full blown Don Q solo's at the same age and doing them very well. These schools need to be brought to task, where are the teachers and training needed to allow these kids to perform along side the foreign talent on the world stage. If they are not able to train the younger children to the standard they themselves require then serious questions need to be answered.  

Gob smacked that the RBS are proudly advertising this. How much more insecure must this make current RBS / UK students feel.  Also saw that ENBS are increasing their international auditions, Mexico is a new venue. Makes me so sad, why is this allowed to happen. 

Jean Yves was still director of the school at audition time and he would have chosen where to place auditionees. Some given places in the school years 5 / 6 / 7 others BA course at NBA or Trainees. The trainee course only split from the school at the beginning of the summer term, up until then the BA students did their morning classes at NBA and then joined the trainees at Chasse studios for afternoon lessons. At the beginning of the summer term the BA students were told that they would no longer be joining the trainees and all lessons would be at NBA. They were also told that Jean Yves was under investigation (nobody knows the real reason why) and that all NBA students should have no contact with him until the investigation was done. Meanwhile the trainees did 2 pieces in the school performance but Jean Yves was not allowed into the Opera House to watch or rehearse them !

NBA students are part of the university and as such pay a nominal fee as university students. The trainee course is now more expensive than NBA and fees are paid to Movart productions - it is all a bit of a mess. However the teachers at NBA did an amazing job with the school show which far out did last years offering, all the NBA kids seem very happy and have been extremely well taught. In reality the split has been a bonus for the NBA students who were overlooked over the past few years in favour of the trainees.  None of the Dutch are trainees as like here they still have to do some form of education, therefore they are either 5 /6 /7 or on the BA course. This may have been part of the problem, but just speculation.

Jean Yves is running Movart productions - Ted Branson is now overseeing the school until a new director is appointed. 

There has been a split from the Nationale Ballet Academie - The trainees are now run by Movart productions - The teachers and Director are no longer part of the school and they train in different studios on the other side of Amsterdam - The trainees took part in this years school performance  ( as I think this had already been arranged before the split ) but as there seems to be no love lost between the two factions I doubt wether this will happen again. The Summer school also is now run by Movart productions using their teachers rather than any one from het nationale. For anyone thinking of auditioning in Amsterdam note that the Dutch nationale ballet academie and the Dutch National trainee programme are now two entirely different things. One boy from the school will be going to DNB others going to Zurich, Poland, Hong Kong, Hungary and Introdans Amsterdam. 

Better to go to BRB on a first year corps contract and then if possible transfer to RB a year later on a 2nd year corps contract as one of the girls in the year capybara mentioned did. Now she is a full year ahead of her peers, hardly seems fair. Very surprised that the male dancer SPD444 mentioned was not given a full contract, however one of the girls given an apprenticeship is also a big prize winner, both Prix and YAGP. I would have thought these two dancers could have had their pick of companies. Perhaps there are just no contracts available.

Not sure how helpful these apprenticeships / junior companies really are, a handy well of talent for companies that cannot afford the extra dancers they need for big productions, but for many young dancers prolonging the agony for another year. In many cases I think the dancers would be better off accepting a contract in a smaller company and audition for the larger main companies at a higher level.

2 hours ago, Flora said:

Besides care of existing students it is worrying that all the artistic directors are increasingly trotting the globe to search for other people’s work. I would query what value is really being added by a school taking students who are basically already company ready and which the top companies will have no issue finding anyway if they are so minded. I know of international students who saw US as an audition for the company. They were not going for anything other than a bit of final polish and a self marketing exercise. This is really disheartening for the ex yr 11 home grown students who quite frankly are often streets behind and very disheartening too for other UK students at finals (of which my DD was one) knowing that realistically so many places at the top schools would be allocated in this way. I also struggle with the fact that 14 and 15 year olds are increasingly taken into US. To me this in itself is an acknowledgment the training in Yr 10 and 11 is for students who are already well behind.

 

I would urge parents going through  the yr 7 audition process not to be fooled by brand names and assume that having a child at any of the lower schools will set them up with exactly what they need and be a ticket to top intensive classical training at Yr 12. It really isn’t. 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. The biggest competition out there now seems to be between the Directors of the big worldwide schools as to who can snatch the best talent. They are all leaving their own students behind, whilst globe trotting to the various YAGP venues. Just recently the Director of the RBS has taught master classes and judged the YAGP competitions in Australia, Japan, China, Paris, Barcelona and will be at the NY finals in April not mention a recruiting stint at the Prix de Lausanne. If you look at the scholarship page on the YAGP website you can see which school has handed out scholarships and to who (and these are only the semi finals, finals still to come). Makes depressing reading. The Paris winner will be attending RBS US at just 14 yrs of age, so disheartening for those current Yr 9 students slogging away at WL. And yes of course these international students are looking at the bigger picture, fast track entrance to a top company., most are basically company ready  when they arrive.  Instead of chasing the finished article, why are these directors not recruiting world class teachers to teach the talent they already have. Surely it would be so much more satisfying to be able to show a graduating class of students that you can honestly say that you as a school have personally trained and nurtured since yr 7. 

17 minutes ago, Flora said:

I fully appreciate Forum rules need to be respected and no child outed but I wanted to add to the discussion we have a 17 year old DD having a fabulous time dancing overseas and receiving true world class classical teaching. It is tough and critical at times and the hours in the studio are staggering but it is under current nurturing of every student. 

 

By comparison my observation is we seem to know an awful lot of parents who have come bitterly to regret their child’s time in top UK training and feel they were horribly let down. It is such a familiar theme from year groups above and below my DD of the people we know and know of, and is consistent to a point too with our own experience. I am sorry to say I really and truly struggle to believe the complaints are always untrue.

 

Unfortunately what happens is when it goes wrong the parents pick up the pieces and they focus on sorting out their child and they don’t rock the boat and also don’t want to risk being told it is just sour grapes. Do parents need to do more boat rocking collectively in order to improve the quality of the training, the commitment to each dancer, the sometimes dire selection (how is it that lay people with no ballet knowledge can quietly KNOW a particular choice will go horribly wrong in only months, and lo and behold....) and ultimately the return on taxpayers’ investment? 

It is about time the boat was rocked and the authorities that be, are made aware of what is going on. It is wrong on so many levels, from first selection onward. 

32 minutes ago, Ribbons said:

There were a total of six Yr11 WL students (girls)  that were offered US this year. BUT out of those six only two are British & have been there since yr7. The other four are foreign & two of those only started in Yr11 last Sept so I wouldn’t class those as rbs trained.

 

The training the girls have received over the years has been inadequate. The teachers that they've had are what I would class as good but not amazing. The students are so far behind the standard of the foreign students that are being shipped in that yes, I would be embarrassed if I were the artistic director at WL. The students work their socks off there, but they can only be as good as the teachers that are teaching them! 

 

What also infuriates me is the artistic director swans off to teach & judge at all of these international competitions but I know for a fact that the current yr11 girls have never had a class with him... His own students! Just goes to show where his priories lie! 

This is the the bare truth of it - I hope the message gets out there.

The training at some of the Swiss and German schools is free - parents would have to find money for living expenses, but It is also possible that a talented child could be awarded a scholarship to cover this. As a nation we are very reticent about looking outwards, there are some fabulous schools and Companies in Europe. 

Do not forget that the directorship and teaching staff have changed quite considerably since the above mentioned were at school. Lets hope we can quote as many English success stories in the coming few years.

28 minutes ago, atacrossroads said:

Interesting how the boy’s training seems to have been sufficient for more of them to be accepted into US (although I’ve heard it’s a particularly strong year). They are being joined by a UK boy from Tring which is a great achievement.

The training is no better for boys, my children are all boys. It is quite simply that regardless of the "Billy Elliot effect" there are still far fewer boys at US age (be it from the UK or abroad) chasing the pure ballet dream.

I have  personally been through the RBS system myself, had all 3 of my DC go through various stages JAs MAs WL, along with several of my students, one of whom is one of the great British rarities that actually made it all the way from JAs to the RB company. But taking this all into account, If I had the chance again I would definitely have taken my kids out of the RBS system at year 9 age and sent them abroad to a school with a proper training system. I would  honestly advise anyone with a very talented child to seriously consider doing the same, don't be swayed by the RBS name, it means nothing, taking well trained students from abroad and passing them off as your own, does not make a good school. Students from abroad come to the RBS as they know that they are almost guaranteed a job with one of the companies and it is reasonably easy for them to get a work visa, they are not coming for the training. One of my own children declined a place at RBS US and is now training abroad, is extremely happy, and has re found the love of dance that literally disappeared during WL and is actually looking like a well trained dancer,. I know this would not be the case had they have stayed in London. 

Does anyone else find it odd that RBS have found the money to create a new post for Samira Saidi to "recruit the worlds most gifted dancers" ? - especially as competition entrants from both YAGP and Prix are already making up two thirds of each RBS US year group. Do we really need to pay somebody to find more ?  RBS even have an International scholars page, talented kids who are technically too advanced for White Lodge and have been promised US places if they want them when they are old enough. Several foreign students in year 1 are currently only year 11 age and there is one girl joining US next term who is only 14. The RBS year 7s have the same initial potential as those students from abroad, but are obviously not getting the training they need and deserve. Why are the RBS not embarrassed about the lack of home trained students coming through ? Why is nobody questioning this. Surely money would be better spent training the students they already have to the standard they obviously require. Anybody can cherry pick from the competitions, but it seems that very few can actually train dancers !