hfbrew

Having spent a small (who am I kidding) fortune on ballet, tap, modern, jazz, singing, drama, swimming, gymnastic and music lessons for 2 daughters and all the other costs associated with these hobbies, I can honestly say that we have no regrets. My husband and I took the view that as long as we could afford them without bankrupting ourselves then we would continue to support our children. We would never have sold or remortgaged the house however to fund vocational school for our daughter who wanted to make a career out of dance, as that would, in our opinion, have been a step too far and would have led to too much pressure on her to succeed in a very precarious profession. We were concerned that it would also cause resentment in our other daughter in later life.

Although my husband and I could have done a great deal ourselves with the money that we spent over the years, we feel that both time and money have been well spent. Both daughters have a strong work ethic, self discipline and have matured into lovely young women. Eldest is a paediatric staff nurse so is a real contrast to her dancer sister. Neither of them had any time to 'fall off the rails' in their teenage years as they were too busy.

I did ask my dancer daughter a couple of years ago if she'd regretted not having what I considered to be a 'normal' teenage life and her reply was that to her, her life had been normal and what she hadn't done, she'd didn't miss. Who knows, in years to come she may well have a different viewpoint but at the moment she has no regrets.

While we will never be repaid in monetary terms, the value of what we have experienced throughout our daughters lives has been priceless.

aileen - regarding your point about extended adolescence, as most who are currently in their early 20s will probably be working until at least 70, there isn't the rush to settle down so quickly. Gone are the days of jobs and security for life, so our youngsters have a very different mindset. Not saying that it's right or wrong but just how it seems to be.

Your daughter sounds lovely (actually both of them do) but I suspect many of our DCs would say the same. Afterall what is a "normal" teenage life? For some its endless hard academic slog (in the affluent area where I work) , others its hanging round streets getting drunk,smoking or worse with no career ambitions (where I live) , , again for others its to drift from home to school to parties to shops to hair salons and then school again and then perhaps go to Uni without a clear idea of what they'd really like to do with life.And for some its endless hours on computers like us ballet.co junkies lol- my DB has just jumped up next to me to find out why I have a laptop on my lap and not him....

But when a family feels that the costs (of all kinds) of the DC pursuing the dream have become too great in the context of that particular family then it is reasonable for the family to tell the DC this without feeling guilty.

Absolutely. Which is why I do feel that families do have to be realistic from day one and I feel that members on this forum are.I know that many people on this forum have quite sensibly been very honest with their offspring about the cost of vocational schools and many have not taken up offers of places because to do so would impact adversely on their families. I have a student who has successfully auditioned for a vocational school three years in a row now in the full knowledge that without funding she can't go. And she is fine with this- she is just gratified that her parents at least let her try and she is happy that even if she never gets off the mds waiting list she was still good enough for that place. But she herself explained to me that with older siblings at university they would have to sell the house to afford vocational ballet school fees- and if she then didn't like it ,SHE would feel guilty.

 

In my DS case the education he received was far superior to what he would have received- as was his quality of life. I was dead against him going but I am so glad that we didn't deny him the chance. However we made it quite clear that he didn't then have to feel obliged to us in any way. Just as parents shouldn't feel guilty if their own personal circumstances prevent their offspring from following a certain path, children should not be made to feel guilty if they no longer wish to pursue ballet/music/sport etc regardless of the time and expense.It works both ways. I have seen too many people unhappy because they followed the path decreed right for them by their parents.

but if that so called "second rate dancer" was fulfilled and happy in her life, doing something she loved whilst at the same time benefiting society in some way through what we would call not a "decent dancing job" but through other ways,(e.g helping children, dance therapy and any number of other things) surely that is a wonderful achievement not to mention the manifestation of a well rounded individual? An individual who will also be part of the ballet audiences of tomorrow?

They would work out a payment plan for you to continue paying long after you've left they did write off some off what we owed. Only paid a small amount each month.

I had to have a payment plan too at one point and was still paying long after ds left WL. Happy to say I no longer have any fees to pay!!! Paying off the credit cards now.....

Would you say that applies to those auditioning at age 11? According to Deborah Bull and 'The Everyday Dancer', to make it, got to be in full time training by 11, 12 at latest I prefer your thoughts as have DD wanting to try again next year after making 3 finals for yr 7 but no funded offer.....we will support her but are very realistic as to her chances but as she's not giving up, who are we to give up on her. Let's hope she proves Deborah Bull wrong!

Well I proved her wrong, Deborah is only a little bit older than me and I can say that at 11 I was still only on grade 2!!! and definately not vocational material- it wasn't even considered. It was only as I got older that the passion for ballet really got hold- I practised daily and read every book on the subject, even the Ballet dictionary.

As mentioned earlier I even failed to get into vocational school at 16 and my teacher strongly suggested University. But I was a stubborn madam.....I am forever ever grateful to my parents who let me and my siblings follow their respective paths. Ive never been rich financially but I am happy in my working life- in fact I don't see it as work...

 

I actually suggest everyone give up if you want to make money, go into accountancy instead!!

 

Joking aside I do think that its important to be realistic from day one, the journey to be a professional dancer is long. hard and expensive with no guarantee of financial security even if you do make it. So yes, follow the dream, enjoy the journey but also keep up with the school work and if possible enjoy other interests too.

What do you mean regarding Darcy, Stardancer? I confess I don't know her history-did someone tell her she wouldn't dance professionally?

Yes, Darcey initially had a very hard time at White Lodge and I am sure I remember an interview in which she spoke of a teacher who said she wouldn't make it.

 

I know plenty of people who didn't get into vocational school at 16, including myself but were successful two years later. And I had a successful career performing professionally as well as teaching. Ok so I ended up in a contemporary group but I'm quite happy with that and I did get to do any classical roles that came up!

 

I agree with what others have said that its about the journey and if you are not enjoying it (and I mean really not enjoying it ANY of the time, afterall sometimes its downright hateful!) then do something different! Otherwise follow your dream and have the satisfaction of having had the chance to follow it. Even if you don't end up being a professional ballet dancer that doesn't have to stop you enjoying this wonderful art form and of course these days there are other avenues to consider such as physiotherapy for dancers, promoting dance, research etc. One of my students became editor of a well known dance magazine.

Don't forget the kleenex!!!

Tring offer just about every subject including maths and the sciences. It was a big factor in my ds decision to finish his training there as he wasn't sure what direction to go in.

Quickly decided he wasn't that academic after all and is now a professional ballet dancer!

Thank you taxi4ballet I wish i had a crystal ball lol but i hope its the right path .

If that was your dds instinct then its absolutely the right path , afterall Trings strength lies in its vast choice of A levels but in doing these then it means that mornings are tied up doing academics - fine for my DS at the time but not if you really don't want to do A levels so it sounds like a very sensible decision by your dd!!

Strongly recommend the RAD boys only class on Saturdays, also th kick start programme for boys at Tring.

 

Louise Sheaves School of Dance have boys only classes in Harpenden.

 

Please feel free to pm me!!

My query to the RAD was whether split sole soft shoes could now be worn for Intermediate since I had never heard of split sole demi-pointes. Here's their reply:

We are not saying that flat ballet shoes will be allowed from Intermediate and above we are saying that soft and hard pointe shoes can be worn with a split sole. Apparently you can now buy split sole soft and hard pointe shoes. You are correct in saying that at Intermediate Foundation, candidates can wear flat ballet shoes or soft pointe shoes. This has always been the case and the ruling remains the same although now they can wear split soles.

Thankyou so much for taking the trouble to look into this Aurora as Id missed that bit of info completely! I don't agree with the ruling but my guess is that a lot of exam candidates were turning up with these shoes anyway and the rule was probably difficult to enforce - no organiser wants to turn away a student from an exam if they haven't the correct shoes, especially if the student was told by their teacher that they were ok.

Something else I'd forgotten hfbrew (I'm getting seriously worried about my memory ) - about those hard soled shoes!!

They were awful things weren't they? Think my DS "lost" tem!

I've just been reading the exam specifications (you can find them on the RAD website - see links)

 

http://www.rad.org.u...370&realCat=382

http://www.rad.org.u...371&realCat=383

 

They say that soft pointe shoes must be worn for vocational grades and "Soft ballet shoes or split sole shoes may not be worn"

 

For non-vocational grades "Pink soft satin, canvas or leather shoes with either elastic or ribbons. (Soft pointe shoes should not be worn, but split soles can be.)"

 

These specifications are dated January 2012 so I presume are up-to-date and I think it seems quite clear that split sole shoes may not be worn for vocational exams

Well done Julie, you beat me to it!! As an RAD teacher I'm pretty hot on keeping up to date with latest information and certainly didn't remember any changes of rules concerning shoes!! However will add that men can wear split soles, DS did for Adv 2.

This may be a stupid question (as I am a complete ignoramus where the technicals of ballet is concerned) but if girls use soft blocks to strengthen their feet, what do boys do? Or do boys not have the same need for strength because they don't do pointe? Or perhaps don't tend to have big arches so problems are not so severe? As mother of a DS with naturally high arches I am curious. I am pretty sure he mentioned borrowing the girls pointe shoes to practise with sometimes but not sure if this is just him being daft... NB normally he uses split sole ballet shoes so I am wondering whether this is perhaps not very good for him?

Thanks for info....

At WL y DS had to wear hard soled shoes for a tie to strengthen feet. Split soles were definately no no but he wears them now he is dancing professionally.

What is Tring like on a Sunday? Does public transport run. Dd would like go to one of Trings days of dance. We will have to travel to Tring by train.

Trains do run on Sunday but busses don't, well not the one DS has to use anyway! Its a goodly walk from the train station so would suggest booking a taxi in advance, I am sure Tring would provide you with telephone numbers.

Prepare for a long ride!!! No denying its been tough at times but as a family its also given many good times. My ds was well looked after and was allowed to be himself. And Id like to reassure you that he was never actually told" you are not good enough" and although comparisons with other pupils are inevitable we did try hard to celebrate his own personal journey and tried to avoid as much as possible comparing marks of appraisals etc.

 

And for us the alternative schooling option really doesn't bear thinking about... I do think it must be much harder for those who have excellent local schooling!

I remember nutrition talks way back in my days at Hammond. In my experience vocational ballet schools do take it very seriously and my DS has been weighed regularly as well as girls.

 

One of my friends DD was barred from dancing my the medical staff at Tring until she was a safe weight.

Well I always shaved!!!

 

Don't think its an issue at the moment with my son as I think his costumes pretty much cover him! However I did joke that perhaps he didn't need his wolf mask if he kept forgetting to shave !

Good luck.

 

Might I suggest another option is to audition for year 10? Wonder if that would be a good compromise if she keeps up her standard. It would allow her to mature at home and be really sure she wants to dance without shutting the door completely. And you will save three yeard of expense....

First time I have posted anything and I wish I had found this site earlier. My daughter is same situation and doesn't know what to do. Her heart says Elmhurst but she is aware of the kudos of ENB and worries she would be foolish if she turns it down. Any suggestions?

Follow your heart everytime. For what its worth my DS put Elmhurst well above ENB when making his choice!

If we are discussing graduates destinations, we need to take into consideration that there are many different types of contract out there. A friend whose dd graduated from RBS and gained a full corps de ballet contract told me the following. In previous years the contracts RBS students gained were all for full corps de ballet contracts, but last year many were only apprenticeships or 2nd company positions.

 

Apprenticeships used to be paid positions, salary a bit lower than corps. There are also some 2nd companies that are paid positions just encompassing a younger age group than the main company. However in the USA, and now this is happening in Europe too, these apprenticeships and 2nd company positions are like the unpaid internships in other walks of life.

 

Traditionally in Europe contracts were for a full year with options to renew. Now there are many that are short term - ENB augments its company with contracts for a few weeks when it is performing at the Albert Hall. In one of the recent documentaries some of the girls were highlighted - beautiful dancers who were having difficulty finding another job. Angel Corella's ballet company did the same last year, short term contracts for a production of Swan Lake.

 

The difficulty with these short term contracts is how the dancers can keep their standard up when not employed. Hence my comments about dancers returning to Tring to continue training after their tour with BTUK finished. That solution can only work for a short time. Hopefully they will then go on to longer contracts elsewhere.

 

In the contemporary world there are a few companies in UK, but the majority of work is for specific projects. Even Matthew Bourne says he does not "run a company" as he auditions and employs dancers for roles in specific productions.

The dancers that returned to Tring last year were actually apprentices- Tring very generously allowed them to go and get this wonderful experience whilst still training. They then, like everyone else had to formally audition for full contracts and those successful have been extremely busy since September and have probably spent at best two weeks in total back at school -and then largely to fulfil commitments made prior to accepting the contract. My DS successfully auditioned in February and is already talking about the future productions lined up- he really has been very fortunate. Whats wonderful is that Tring are very happy for "their" dancers to continue class with them when not touring thus helping keep up fitness.

 

Yes the contracts are short term but this is actually allowing flexibility to look for other work or persue other interests such as teaching which suits my DS down to the ground.

 

But excellent points all the same pas de quatre - in todays world young students still training need to understand that most jobs will not be for longer than 1 year and terms and conditions will vary from company to company.

 

As Julie has already said , it makes the achievement of so many graduates so far from all the British institutes that much more impressive.

It's great to see new companies like BTUK, but how long are the contracts for - just a few weeks at a time I believe. Good on the CV for experience, but not really earning a living. Last year's dancers seemed to spend a lot of time back at Tring.

We really do need to stick to the thread but I'd like to point out that some of BTUKs dancer have been in the company from the start and many are on their second or third season.

Very intersting thoughts here. :-)

 

Hfbrew, sorry if I have missed this, but do you know which companies those two female graduates have ended up in? Thanks. They are with BTUK and were actually encouraged by the school to join last year when successful at audition. They join another female graduate who has done at least two seasons with this tiny but ambitious company.

I have to say, when my dd was at Tring, and that was up until July last year. No student was ever given the choice of what set they were put into, and no amount of trying to reason with the head of dance made any difference. Many of the students that I know were very upset at the decisions made for them. I heard second hand so dont know if its true or not, that those students who were in receipt of a dada or mds were not allowed to audition for other schools. As I mentioned earlier, many of the current parents or students find it very difficult to speak out as they are concerned of the reprecusions. I do know this for a fact as I was speaking to the parent of a child who does have a dada only yesterday and she was talking about the many concerns she has but was too afraid to speak out should it affect her childs dada being removed.

On a positive note though, the school is a lovely place to learn, the teachers are caring and try to be supportive to the students. I think that the dance training is good but taught at different levels, dependent on the set your child is in.

I would stress that parents and students need to visit the school, just because it wasnt right for my child doesnt mean it wont be right for them.

 

I agree with all that Primrose has said here as in the past the system has seemed unfairly inflexible which is why so many students have quite rightly voiced their concerns- my DS being one of them. Hence extra ballet lessons (and that was a hard fought battle) and then an invitation to give feedback (believe me I did)- also the new initiative, long overdue to ask students their preferences. My Ds was quite perplexed that some didn't bother to reply and others ended up preferring the current situation.

 

But this thread was about graduate destinations and many students are still getting jobs.... ok so not with "big" companies and maybe not always classical but in this day and age thats to be expected.

If your daughter wants only classical training then Tring will not be right for her. However purely classical jobs are very hard to come by so its not a bad idea to broaden ones horizons. But she may hate jazz and contemporary- my DS certainly did at first.

 

I will reiterate that two FEMALE dancers have already secured classical contracts and they were certainly given opportunities over and above my DS at times last year- not that I minded as at the time he wanted to focus on A levels. But I would readily admit that the top dancers in the school do get dis proportionally more attention at times so you do have to be aware of this. The quality of teaching is very good but students do have to speak up for themselves and communicate openly or they can get lost in the system.