Gingerbread

I recently came across a report which was the result of research into the development of dance talent by Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Dance and Music. One interesting finding was that students who did the most ballet were deemed less creative and less expressive. The research was based on young people involved in CAT programmes and presumably they all did some ballet. So maybe the amount of ballet you do is the key factor. Professional ballet dancers presumably have done so much it is a struggle to move in a different way.

could this possibly be anything to do with the focus on RAD ballet curriculum and exams in this country, whereas it might be more useful to have a greater emphasis on artistry, dramatic interpretation, free classes etc (i.e., syllabus free not free of charge) across the week at the local dance school?

Hi all,

I was reading this with interest, as our school says the same. There was a girl at our school who quit ballet but continued her other dance class, tap,modern theatre and national

and the teacher suggested she took it back up after a couple of years, she did and her marks started to improve again after having fallen slightly.

Both my dd's do ballet tap modern and national and are part of the youth programme at our local theatre . One of my dd gets amazing marks in all her dancing i don't find one hinders the other, it always amazes me how she goes from ballet and tap which are so different, yet my other dd who also gets great marks in all struggles a little with her tap. So i think it depends on the individual person as to what they are capable of.

I also believe the different styles especially ballet give them a deportment and gracefulness you don't get just anywhere. My dd's wer in a christmas show at their theatre of Annie and i had many people pick them out and say what lovely dancers they were and how they could tell they did dancing. Even in ballet the acting classes have help hem to express themselves more in the ballet.

My dd's are 12 and i don't think you are reducing her chances for later on but enhancing them as i would think it shows good discipline and she does tap and contempory aswell so shows a good all round knowledge of dance. ( I hope so as one of my dd's want to look into auditioning again soon).

Sorry to waffle on just my opinion hope it helps.

That is really helpful because it is pointing out the obvious thing that I hadn't even thought of - that everyone is different anyway!!

All through the years when I took ballet class (40 yrs) there was always a large contingent of dancers from other disciplines: modern/contemporary, tap, mime, street dance, ballroom, etc. Also present were athletes, singers, actors, musicians, an orchestra conductor, and public speakers. As a concert pianist told me - he wanted to know how to walk across a stage and how to take a bow to the applause. Opera Diva Dame Joan Sutherland explains in her autobiography her embarrassment in donning tights and leotard but also the necessity of it to learn how to move on stage.

 

So - how does this affect when one has to "forget" one's ballet training - such as turnout- to move on to another discipline such as modern/contemporary? It's like learning to read a language using Roman script and then trying to learn to read a different script such as Greek - or even Hebrew (which reads from right to left). Learning to read in one script doesn't stop us from learning to read in another script - in fact we can take with us the basic rules. The script may look different and even the grammatical setup may be different - but the skill set needed is the same.

 

Ballet teaches the dancer how to put together what the brain wants and what the body can offer. That ability is what tells Adam C. or Darcy B., to "forget" ballet. They know what they must do because of ballet.

Anjuli this makes perfect sense, thank you very much for the analogy... I see what you mean. I am not going to worry that DD is doing too great a proportion of ballet in relation to other dance. Her ballet is a great launch pad for all sorts of life skills as well as dancing..... (although she was criticised by a games teacher last summer for her style of long-jump - apparently it was "too balletic" - I don't find this cause for concern however)!!

On their website they say classes are (I think) £9 .... does that mean that it's pay as you go, or do you pay upfront for a term as at most schools?

Thanks Gingerbread, their site doesn't work on ipad. May look at it for next summer. :-)

I highly recommend it .... DD has been for 4 years. Frangipani's DD has also attended

This was something I mentioned at the end of another thread but really it needs to have its own thread... so here goes...

I have always been led to believe that keeping up the ballet, even though DD might never end up as a classical dancer, is a very good idea. It provides a good foundation for other types of dance. My DD does tap & modern/contemporary as well as classical ballet..... at the moment, her focus is on the ballet, but that could have a "shelf life" if you see what I mean. She is also keen on drama, and good at it too. What's more, her most valued ever experience (despite also having done EYB, various summer schools, reached finals in various RAD competitions etc etc) will always always be her time doing panto in Aylesbury no less, a few years ago. Which of course involved a variety of dance styles and nurtured her love of performance.

what I would like to ask anyone out there, is this:

I have read various articles / seen TV programmes where professional ballet dancers have moved on from ballet to other types of dance, or at least experimented with other dance styles. Many of them seem to say that rather than ballet being a useful foundation, they have had to "forget" their ballet training in order to master the other dance form. For example, ex Royal ballet Adam Cooper in the Sunday Times this time last week, says of his role in Singing in the Rain "You're going against everything you do as a ballet dancer." And Darcey Bussell in that Christmas documentary I seem to remember was talking about having to forget her instinct to turn out, in order to do some routine or other.

So by focusing 90% on the ballet at age 13, is DD potentially reducing her chances of success in other performance areas later on? (it goes without saying that the self discipline that ballet promotes is a worthwhile goal in itself).

Thank you for reading this, sorry if it's slightly garbled! Does anyone have any thoughts please?

Out of interest, what about Yorkshire Ballet in terms of age or exam requirements?

 

If not, then I would be inclined to do LCB again if your DD enjoyed it. Once they are older then I think it's more important to "do the rounds" of serious summer schools, but when DD was 10 we tended to repeat the ones she enjoyed.

From memory without looking it up, YBS requirements are age 11, minimum Grade 4. (just for info) x

I can't help you really because I've never sent my DD there, neither do I know anyone who goes there... but wanted to respond because the Russian style does interest me, and I have heard of this school because I undertook some research to find a Russian school for her at one point. However this one is too far to travel on a regular basis. DD has had some one off coaching from a Russian teacher in the past and found it an eye opener. Jete, I would also be very interested to hear any feedback! Good luck, I hope someone knows something.

G xx

What happens to those assessed out? I know they can be invited to the finals of other vocational schools, but presume they may have missed the boat for local over-subscribed state schools? Must be a dreadfully upsetting and stressful time for parents and children.

 

It is strange how much children change though. Even at White Lodge and Elmhurst, I bet the 'best' children with the highest appraisal marks in year 7 are not necessarily the 'best' by year 9 and it probably changes again by year 11.

Yes I agree - it is clearly a marathon as opposed to a sprint if you see what I mean!

Regarding subscriptions, a yearly one might be better than monthly. Then you can pay and forget about it rather than having to make a payment every month. Also, that also would encourage people to "commit" to the site - rather than cancel after a month or two if that makes sense. Paypal is easy to use, I think, from a payer and payee point of view.

Love the doing dance section as a hobby dancer and mother of hobby DD - time and tech skill are minimal but would willingly pay monthly fee to have the benefit of the wisdom and camaraderie of ballet.co.ers

Thanks do much Bruce for all your time and commitment to the forum.

Absolutely agree with this!

Its well worth keeping up the ballet even though she doesn't expect to end up as a classical dancer. Ballet provides a good foundation for all types of dance, it helps to ensure good clean technique and cannot be beaten for strengthening parts that other exercise cannot reach. I think this is why the vocational schools which are not primarily classical schools still look for a good standard of ballet.

 

Even if she cannot take the exams because pointe work is a real no-no its probably still worth taking classes in ballet and progressing through the grades as far as possible. It sounds as if your new teacher will be sympathetic to this.

I agree about keeping up the ballet, even though she doesn't expect to end up as a classical dancer... and I also have always been led to believe that it provides a good foundation for other types of dance. (sort of like Latin being the basis for many other languages perhaps)? My DD also does tap & modern/contemporary as well as classical ballet..... at the moment, her focus is on the ballet, but that could have a "shelf life" if you see what I mean. She is also keen on drama, and good at it too. Her most valued ever experience (despite also having done EYB, various summer schools, reached finals in various RAD competitions etc etc) will always always be her time doing panto in Aylesbury a few years ago. Which of course involved a variety of dance styles. OK I am rambling now. BUT what I would like to ask anyone out there, is this:

I have read various articles / seen TV programmes where professional ballet dancers have moved on from ballet to other types of dance, or at least experimented with other dance styles. Many of them seem to say that rather than ballet being a useful foundation, they have had to "forget" their ballet training in order to master the other dance form. For example, ex Royal ballet Adam Cooper in the Sunday Times yesterday says of his role in Singing in the Rain "You're going against everything you do as a ballet dancer." And Darcey Bussell in that Christmas documentary I seem to remember was talking about having to forget her instinct to turn out, in order to do some routine or other.

sorry I'm ramblling and may have gone off topic...... does anyone have any thoughts ?

and of course Summer Schools are great for extra training - not too late to apply for some of them I'm sure?

Lots of Summer schools are residential so the travelling would be less of an issue. Perhaps she does summer schools anyway - was just a thought ....

DD just received a No to WL finals

Gingerbread- I was talking about both, people who have been turned down and those that have been assessed out. I think the majority of people can see the royal ballet school type just by looking at photos from the school let alone actually going and experiencing it for yourself. There is a particular body shape and look. Some people have it, others just don't. Which is what the discussion is about.

 

I am not trying to discourage anyone from going to the RBS but you, as a dancer or a dancer's parent have to be prepared to understand how the RBS look for a very particular type of child. Often for petty reasons. I have however never heard of the facial beauty thing before although I notice how many people in America in particular and the UK wear stage makeup to auditions nowadays.

without wanting to put too fine a point on it, when my DD was turned down for a JA place about 4 years ago, I didn't get any feedback as to why - just a straight no - I thought this was the norm. I know what the discussion is about (I think)! but wanted to clarify whether anyone's son or daughter had received a No after a RB audition with a reason - or just a straight no.

I agree with you to a certain extent rachael, but I do believe certain attributes can be improved upon if physical, and learned, in the case of "performance", and that in a learned attribute, some children will find this later than others. I don't believe a child should be written off at 10 because they may find that at 13 or older, they come into their own and suddenly something "clicks" for them.

agree with this - my DD is very different to how she looked she might turn out when she was 9 or 10 if you see what I mean!

It has always baffled me, what do the Royal Ballet School actually look for? I've never had much experience with the Royal Ballet School apart from an unsuccessful summer school application form years back. But I have heard of many cases of people being turned down for physique. Little, silly reasons like small arches or long backs. Has anyone had any experience of this before and what are they actually looking for?

Balledmad97 - so are you saying that the RBS have actually told people that they were turned down because of wrong physique/small arch/long back etc etc? I didn't think they gave feedback to unsuccessful applicants. Or do you mean people who have been assessed out? Just wondering!

This may sound back to front, but it is nice to see people posting their 'No's' . In the past people have been more likely to post only when they got a yes and those with 'No's' must have felt they were in the minority which they definitely weren't!

I agree! We are still waiting for a letter though .....

Hi there -

older dancing DD did EYB Coppelia in 2009 - really enjoyed it and I would say it was a highly beneficial experience. She auditioned for NYB last year and made reserve list, but they wrote some time after to say that no reserve places were actually needed, so DD did not do that.

Younger dancing DD is doing Aylesbury Sleeping Beauty this year (August) and auditioned in the junior section - I believe 100 auditioned and they took about half of them? A very wide ranging level of ability from what I could see (to my relatively uninformed eye)! But that is great - and ultimately, if you are good you will get in! What I mean is, you would still benefit from doing EYB even if you are with a few other dancers who aren't as high a standard as you are - there's always something to learn. Miss Lewis is very professional, and was very nice at the Aylesbury audition: rather than treating the 50 or so as "No's", they all were told they were on the Reserve List and that reserves were very often called upon. Older DD didn't audition although she had intended to - she was unwell on the day. I was informed kindly by Spanner (thank you again) that she may possibly have been able to send in a DVD but in the end we decided not to pursue this, but to audition again for NYB on 19th of this month. So if older dancing DD gets into NYB this year, we will have first hand experience of both EYB and NYB. It is generally felt that NYB is generally a "higher standard" but on the other hand I have heard that there is much more "waiting around" at NYB. And of course NYB is about £200 more expensive!!

Yes my DD made the finals 2 years ago - didn't enter last year but is going again this year. Initial part consisted of a ballet class - can't quite remember but I don't think parents watched. Finals was another class, with Errol Pickford as the teacher. I do remember watching that part!

my daughters 11

Oh don't be too upset - she is still very very young.

(I'm sure that comment doesn't help you much, but a lot can happen between 11 and 12 let alone 11 and 16 - don't worry)

Gingerbread The Scottish ballet are

 

Scottish Ballet | The Company

www.scottishballet.co.uk/

 

Ballet west are a different company... I hope this helps?

 

oops I stand corrected! Ballet West is a ballet school in Scotland though?

Huge congrats to your dd sniffymom- finals at both Elmhurst and royal - exciting times !

No letter here yet, Lil x

WELL DONE and all the best from the Gingerbread household!

Hello Bunheadmum - welcome to the forum - where did your DD audition for RBS? And Congratulations on the Elmhurst final

Hi Poppy- is this what you're after?

http://www.balletwest.co.uk/

I'm afraid I know nothing about the training, but I am sure someone who does will be along soon!