mum5678

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

I think some level 6 qualifications such as a Trinity Level 6 Diploma may impact on student loan funding availability if one were to start a new 3-4 year degree. There are I believe some possible (eg. Nursing I think is one) but then how many studying at vocational dance school will have gained necessary A-Levels for these? It is rather unfair as often a Trinity Level 6 Diploma has been self funded or by DaDa - so not from the student loan pot of money - and as loans have to be paid back surely this policing should change? 

I feel strongly about this too... if it's considered a 'degree' or equal in level, and treated as such, especially in terms of accessing further education, it seems entirely unfair that the students can't access student loans and funding and also limits their options considerably. It seems it should be either one way or the other... it either is a degree level qualification and they should have access to all the appropriate funding (especially in this era of government wanting to recognise vocational qualifications), or it's not and they should have access to further education if they need/want it at a later date. The government really need to straighten this discrepancy out! 

Not in the right area but if you can travel to Lincolnshire, Chantry School are brilliant for contemporary, and their choreography is fantastic. They used to offer online teaching too. The school and company are both run by Rae Piper and Paul Chantry. They're genuinely lovely people too, which always helps! 

12 hours ago, academicdancer said:

I do wonder why each year only has one teacher for ballet. It means that if you don't gel with the teacher (or worse!) there is no respite. I don't think there'd be a huge loss of consistency in approach with 2 or 3 teachers each year. Often it makes the dancer more adaptable and with different ways of receiving corrections often technique can improve quicker.

DS's year has 3 ballet teachers at their school and they find the mix really helpful. Different teachers pick up different things, and have different ways of correcting/advising and different experiences to share. Seems to work very well! 

10 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Of course, the difference with bullying at a regular school - state or private - is that you can always leave, and there are other options, even more if you are willing to pay (or sit for scholarship exams /apply for music, sport or drama scholarships) for private schools - many private schools now also offer bursaries for low income households whose child passes the entrance exam but can’t afford fees. But for ballet vocational schools, there aren’t that many alternative schools to choose from if there’s a problem with the one you’re attending. Also as a taxpayer I’m not happy that vocational schools “assess out” so close to students taking GCSE, A level or finishing a degree. That’s a waste of their money, their time, and our taxpayer subsidy- it’s immoral that they don’t get to finish their final year and at least receive their qualifications to show the hard work they’ve put in. Not all music, drama, dance students will go on to become performers- others go on to teach, become writers, administrators, or work on the business side of the arts. But at least let the students get their qualifications. 

Another thing to consider is whether the child is 'tied in'... we were offered a scholarship to a vocational school on the understanding that if DS left he would have to pay back the tuition fees.

On 22/09/2023 at 13:42, Anna C said:

You make excellent points, Capybara.  I think the first thing we need to do in our ballet schools is to remove something that both Luke Jennings and Dr Alison Stuart said, and that is Fear.  An artist cannot thrive in an atmosphere of fear.  In fact nobody, child or adult, is at their best, and can express themselves naturally, when scared.

 

I think I’m remembering rightly (please do correct me if not) that some years ago, both Carlos Acosta and Christopher Powney commented on different occasions that British ballet students were - not lazy, certainly - reticent, maybe?  Backwards in coming forward? “Lack motivation”, was a term I think Christopher Powney used.  
 

I disagreed then, and I disagree now.  I think what ails British ballet students is fear.  Imagine how a 16 year old could thrive if she knew that in her first week at Upper School, she wasn’t going to be body shamed?

 

Imagine having the confidence and stability of knowing that (serious injury and change of path notwithstanding) you could settle into a routine and actually *enjoy* being taught in some of the world’s most beautiful studios, by wonderful, knowledgeable, inspirational teachers, that you would be corrected but not bullied, that at the end of each year you could look forward to next year; that shame, humiliation, and most of all FEAR of being  - let’s call it what it is - expelled just before the final hurdle, was not a part of your life in training.

 

Have end of year exams/assessments by all means, but only to identify strengths and things to work on.  Not as some sort of elimination, “one in, one out” scenario.  No artist is able to be herself under those circumstances.

Yes, THIS!!! 👏 The fear is real! DS nearly stopped dancing between ages of 8-10 due to a teacher that scared him witless. Thankfully it was an associate scheme and he only saw her less than once a month, and he was a determined little bugger and refused to give up because of her. I nearly pulled him out so many times when he was literally sick with worry before her classes. (He also had the loveliest regular dance school, who were the perfect antidote to her.) He did eventually grow to enjoy her lessons and in hindsight he can see she taught him a lot, and actually has a really good relationship with her now, but she'd have gotten SO much more out of him if he hadn't been petrified. 

He later turned down vocational schools he was offered places at wherever he saw similar styled teachers. When he made his choice he went for the school that felt most at 'home' in despite there being other, bigger names (and scholarship offers) that he turned down. He later did a summer school at one of the post 16 schools he'd had a scholarship offer from, and they were told off and made to to do 50 press ups whenever they asked a question! How on earth are they supposed to learn in that environment? Needless to say, we all felt he'd had a lucky escape. 

On 23/09/2023 at 14:37, Ondine said:

From 2008 on Ballet Alert.  It's related to this discussion.

 

https://balletalert.invisionzone.com/topic/28293-british-schools-foreign-born-dancers/ 

 

I know Nureyev was a 'permanent guest artist' and maybe that's how the company employed those not British born or from the Commonwealth?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at it from the other direction, my (British) brother in law is a very talented musician, and able to get working visas for most countries under the classification of "Alien of Extraordinary Ability" (Obviously we tease him relentlessly about the alien bit!😆) 

Wonder if this might be an option for our dancers? 

Just a little something to consider... I can only speak for the mental health world, but a lot of practitioners are moving away from Axa, and more recently Bupa as their pay rates tend to be below the going rate. There are still plenty of practitioners but it's a diminishing number (especially for AXA) so you ay have less choice / availability if you do need to see somebody (it's not unusual to have waiting list in excess of 6 months to see a private therapist). It's probably not so much of an issue outside of London where appointment fees are generally lower. 

Practitioners are happier working with Cigna, Aviva and WPA, who pay rates more akin to the 'going' rate. 

That said, DS is with Bupa and we have always managed to find a practitioner (even a dance specialist one), however he's not London based. 

19 minutes ago, Laburnum1 said:

The country is heading for an obesity crisis childrens weight is an emotive issue but , I think there’s a difference between alerting a parent that their child is statistically overweight based on their BMI than encouraging a young dancer whose is no doubt already slim whose BMI is healthy to lose weight making them unhealthy. 

Whilst I appreciate it's not the finer point here, I think we need to be very careful bringing BMI in to the mix.... Although it's the regular tool used by many health practitioners for want of anything better, it is proven to be a very long outdated and highly inaccurate measure. It was a very old study (over 100 years), based on white men, generally ex forces, and was never intended to be used as a 'guide'. It ignores racial and gender differences, and the parameters have been changed over the years to suit American health insurance companies (literally, millions of Americans went to bed one night 'healthy' and woke up the next morning 'overweight' so that insurers could charge them more). There is no accounting of muscle mass, breast tissue and the differences those things might make - there's a lot of research into how flawed it is. (Dr Joshua Wolrich has written a good book on this, amongst others.)

I resonated strongly with the dancers in the documentary having personally suffered an ED for a number of years having weighed 'overweight' at doctors check ups... I was a UK size 8, 5ft 4in, 14 years old, and VERY fit (not a dancer but swimmer and played hockey player on youth international teams). I also has DD cup boobs and that probably had a lot to do with the 'weight'! Health checks were all great until the 'hop in the scales' moment, when I was declared overweight and should eat a little less... it's taken me 30 odd years to realise this was wrong and start to work through it. A lot of the details in the program were similar to what I experienced as a teenager, not from sports coaches but from doctors, and everything was always great until the 'scales' moment.

I know this is branching a little off the topic, and perhaps over-passionately put, but I think it's important to recognise that BMI is not as helpful a tool as it's perceived to be, particularly not for athletes, which our young dancers are. There are a huge number of young people who suffer with EDs, who aren't getting help because they don't fit the BMI criteria.... they are literally sent away until they get more poorly before they can access help (I see this regularly, first hand, working with psychologists who treat young people with EDs). As ballet parents, I feel we really need to be extra vigilant about this. 

9 minutes ago, alison said:

Yes, I wonder how well that is passed on.  I seem to remember some comments from Lauren Cuthbertson and Edward Watson in relation to their Romeo & Juliet debuts which seemed to imply that she hadn't been made aware that she needed to contribute when he was lugging her around "dead" in the crypt scene.

Yes, this is an interesting one... DS sometimes talks about the occasional girls who just "don't seem to get that they have to jump too" whilst he's lifting, but often, as a male dancer, they can be partnered with older/more senior females who dismiss this (when they say something) as the male's error as the younger, less experienced dancer. When a teacher spots it they will often comment, but of course more common for male teachers to notice than female, given that they have experience from the male perspective. 

His yardstick is always to try the same move with a few other girls of differing shapes/sizes/styles and if it tends to be working with everyone else, he's usually fairly confident that it's a case of a little more input needed from the initial female partner! If it doesn't work with some of the others, he knows he needs to do something differently. 

He's a pretty good communicator and able to have fairly open conversations with almost all of his partners, and finds it really helpful when the female partner is happy to explain what makes them feel comfortable and safe, but every now and then there's the odd one who just doesn't give and inch! And of course, I'm sure it's the same the other way around too! 

31 minutes ago, Medora said:

But there will probably always be an upper limit for safety and also being able to dance the choreography as intended? You can move the cut off limit further up, and we will still end up with this exact debate at some stage. 

DS (who especially loves doing PDD) says he finds it's not necessarily about 'weight' but about the power behind their partner's initial jump and also about the way they hold themselves when lifted. He says a few kg really doesn't make much, if any, difference and there are often times when a dancer is a little heavier but is much easier to lift because of their own strength/power.

Interestingly, he too had comments from one teacher about his arm muscles being too big/bulgey and being banned from the gym in her fit of panic, yet also often complimented for being a good partner and strong/safe lifts (so much so that he was chosen to demonstrate lifts with the female teachers).... they really just can't win!

It's a tough watch, but very necessary I think to shed light on the issues. I really hope we start to see some change and start appreciating dancers for their actual talent and artistry rather than what their bodies look like. Personally I LOVE watching dancer who don't fit the stereotype and dare to look a little different.

I applaud the interviewees for their bravery and hope they find some peace after their trauma. I really hope there's some deeper digging into some of the other issues at these 'elite' schools. 

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Probably not quite as bad as being written off at 11 as a failure via the 11plus exam in state schools! 
Thankfully no longer exists but you would be surprised at how many people would like to see it reinstated. 

11+ still exists where we live! What's more, if you pass the 11+ you don't necessarily get in at our local boys school, they just take the top 130 scores. My DS got full marks at 11+, nearly all grade 9s at GCSE and the (Grammar) school were furious when he left to go to ballet school at 16 rather than taking A levels (and getting them another bunch of As A*s for their stats!) 😂 

DS's dance teachers were happy to do his in their studio... might be worth asking? 

My son went last year (ahead of him starting there last September). He really enjoyed it - said it gave him a real flavour of the school and he was pleased to discover he knew some of the 1st years who were there from previous EYB shows etc. It's only 2 days so whilst they do give corrections etc. as you would expect, it's not the same intensive experience as you might get on say a 2 week course, but it gives you a sense on what it's like to have a full time dance timetable. They did lessons as they would be if attending the school, and they were taught by the school's regular teachers, so it was a great insight to what life at dance school is like. They also got to see the end of term show, which was fab. (We learnt an awful lot about which schools we liked from going to different school's end of term shows so that might be worth doing if you're considering where to audition!)  

For accommodation, Holiday Inn is VERY close and includes breakfast, although there's also a place call Wilde Apartments in St Peters Square, which is still close, and although the rooms are pretty snug, they have a more than adequate little kitchen in them so you don't have to eat out all the time. There are other similarly priced accommodations in the local area. 

In general, it's a super friendly school with a nurturing feel to it. Feel free to message if you have any questions! Xx

Ahh, thought I hadn’t seen Zobia for a while! Yes Megan is also super helpful and so is Jacob. They are both really lovely and do their very best, although their powers are done what limited against the machine that is unite!! Megan was there last year (working with Zobia) so she’s probably familiar with the whole Dada deposit situation. Jacob is new in the role this year. My DCs flat spend ages chatting to them both! 😂
 

On 27/02/2023 at 20:57, Dancers Dad said:

Unless she's come back in recent weeks, it's not Zobia any more unfortunately. I'm pretty sure it's a lady called Megan. Although if you happen to get Jake/Jacob, he's incredibly helpful. But yes, worth an email.

I don’t think it’s been quite this difficult before, so NBS haven’t had to get involved previously. I do think it’s worth chatting to Miss Grey about the issues here as it’s likely to impact their intake moving forward in general, and also she may be able to speak to some halls directly and create some sort of agreement. 
 

We were certainly given a refundable deposit option last year with new Medlock in case DC didn’t get what he needed to to get in and so we’re others, but NMH were quite used to doing this with ballet students, so it might be worth mentioning that to Mill Point and asking them to contact NMH to verify/ find out how they worked it.

I think there’s a huge amount of disparity between the ‘rules’ on a national level and for individual buildings, as you say. 
 

On the plus side, I can say that it’s a lovely school and DC is incredibly happy there, so worth persevering! 

Neither does mine in Yr 1, but I wouldn’t let that put you off… if Unite are going to do this it will be a problem for all NBS students who aren’t yet booked it so your DC is quite likely to be joined by others! 

DS says some are staying in Vita accommodation too, but I think that might only be for over 18s so worth checking!

Hi all, congratulations to all your DC's on their fabulous offers! Dwell certainly took 16 your olds last September - did you contact the Manchester one directly? I seem to recall that when I was looking last year there was some disparity between what was advertised/advised by central call centres and what we found when we spoke to individual premises, in particular for Dwell. When I managed to get in touch with the Manchester one directly they said they would take them, and there are definitely students booked in to Dwell for their 2nd yr next year, many of whom will start the year aged 17!

It's so frustrating that Unite seem to have just booked all their rooms out to MMU and seems incredibly unfair. It just might be worth contacting Zobia at New Medlock House directly (newmedlockhouse-manchester@unitestudents.com) on the off chance she can help, and/or to ask when they might release any that aren't booked. She has been really supportive and very helpful previously. They like having ballet students as they're always bright and bubbly and up and out, and often keep their flats tidier. She was also really good about keeping the flat to under 18's this academic year - I know this hasn't been the case previously but they did with our lot, possibly after some parents fought the battle in previous years! She doesn't have a lot of control over things but you never know. 

In terms of where the current students will be, there is definitely a flat of what will be 2nd yr NBS students booked at Parkway Gate next door to New Medlock... it's saying rooms are reserved but again, it might be worth a direct email, and also more booked in to Artisan Heights. I will ask my DS to see where others are staying too in case he has any other suggestions. 

One thing to bear in mind is that the insurance that comes with the Unite students accommodation can not be activated until the reach 17, so we've just had to have half a year with his room and the contents uninsured (could do it privately of course, but we never got around to it!) 

On 22/02/2023 at 18:36, kazia1 said:

Still awaiting the result 🙈😫👀. We are not good at this game. Once we know what’s to be we can make decisions 👍🏻Hoping soon.

It’s tough isn’t it. Good luck! Ours last year got sent out the Friday after the audition. They didn’t all come out at once either, so my son’s friend got the email and she knew she had a place and his didn’t come through for another hour or so… caused a complete riot in his physics class when he saw the email (which he shouldn’t have been looking at in class) and squealed very loudly! 😂 Thankfully the teacher was v supportive and just as excited as he was!! Keeping everything crossed for you. 

4 hours ago, Justkeepsmiling said:

I would urge caution with the assumption that because you haven’t used student finance for a diploma that you’ll be entitled to it for a degree.

We have been told by our local authority that student loans are based on the level of qualification that you already hold and that having a Level 6 qualification could prevent you getting finance for a second Level 6 qualification. A Trinity Diploma is a Level 6 qualification (even though it isn’t a full degree) and that is the same level as a Batchelor’s Degree. There does seem to be some flexibility with second degrees for Allied Health Professional courses however.
 

It may differ depending on where in the U.K. you are accessing your funding but that is what I was told when I spoke to Student Finance in my area.

Ahh, that’s good to know… we were told the opposite so like you say, it sounds like it might depend on location! 😬 Damn… that’s my safety blanket ruined! 😂

DS auditioned last year in person (and now currently in 1st year, and loving it) … audition comprised of classes in the morning, ballet and then I think jazz or modern? They had current students in the classes with them so they have someone to look to if they get in a pickle. Then the flexibility assessment which is done as a class so not as intimidating as it sounds, then school talk & tour (with parents) which was a good chance to ask lots of questions, and then solos and interviews. Solos were a complete mix… they study all genres of dance so it really can be anything. DS did a piece of music that changed half way did he could do a bit of ballet and a bit of contemporary, but literally there were people doing all genres. Interview was fine… he said it was gentle, just a nice chat about what he loved about dancing, what his ambitions were and whether we were supportive of the application. Teas and coffees laid out for parents and somewhere for us all to sit on a very rainy day. It was probably the most welcoming and friendly audition we did. They also offer free workshops and summer schools which give you a taster of the school too.  Good Luck!! 

On 27/01/2023 at 11:37, Dancing unicorn said:

I always say, go have a look at one of their performances and see the variety of the stuff they do! They gave a performance coming up on 14th Feb 💗

Absolutely do this!! We only realised how valuable it was once we went on a show tour after making the choice! 🙄 Thankfully we were very happy with the choice but could have been very different if he’d gone to where he ‘thought’ was his first choice before we went through the process…. Changed mind about favourite mid way through! 

On 27/01/2023 at 08:17, DreamChaser said:

Hi, yes I completely relate to this my DD is applying for both Diploma and degree courses and will turn 16 end of August.  She is ready, probably more so that her older brother who will be leaving for uni too - Terrible timing financially and like you, we just miss the DADA funding

 

Offers so far from KS Dance (hoping for a bursary)  and Tring (not in her top 3).  We were at RCS last weekend and Rambert and Central this weekend for 1st auditions.  I’m exhausted, it’s like having an 2nd job, and still a long road ahead!

 

Good luck, nice to have a thread for those of us on this road

We had the same situation last year with one leaving for dance school, one for Uni and just missing the DaDa cut off… it sucks! We had offers from 5 schools, including scholarships from 3….. and then he went somewhere else 😭 BUT, it was absolutely the best fit school for him, and when you consider that to do the degree courses you’re accessing student loans, which still require repayment one day, it doesn’t work out THAT differently overall. We were lucky to have a relative who has given him a private student loan type agreement, which means he’s incredibly driven as he’s constantly aware that he’s paying for it so is determined to squeeze every last bit out of the experience 😂 The benefit to doing the diploma (which it took me a while to realise) is that if he needs to do a career change at a later date he can still access student loans to do a degree, which is a comfort in terms of making sure there’s always a plan b. 
 

KS had extra funding pots for non-DaDa folks, and LSC were good for scholarship based on who they wanted (rather than income linked) so they might be worth considering too. Tring also have quite generous bursary levels. 
 

Also worth considering cost of living comparison too… some of the London halls are VERY expensive and then require travel time and funds, which really adds up. Plus little things like in halls is about £4 to do a laundry load, and they need to do a lot! My DS is in a flat with other dancers and they share a wash for their dance kit midweek, which really helps. They are also 2 mins walk from the studio, which they are enormously grateful for. 
 

Good luck!! It’s a slog and stressful but also SO exciting!! 
 

Xx 

Lincolnshire Youth Ballet do a lovely 3 week one at the start of the summer hols if you’re not too far over the border!