Out-the-other-side

4 minutes ago, Sim said:

Yes, but that is still two or three years ago.

It is not several years however 

1 minute ago, Sim said:

It is a short programme, half an hour.  It concentrates on body shaming and eating disorders.  It interviews a few ex-dance students who suffered from these afflictions whilst at the RBS or Elmhurst.  It concludes that although schools are saying things are changing (and have), that not enough has changed, and change isn't happening quickly enough.  Whereas both schools refused to be interviewed for the programme, statements from both were read out at the end.  The schools both said that they have robust systems in place to ensure their students are happy and properly nourished and looked after physically and emotionally.  The RBS did a 'recollections may vary' by stating that their records show that certain individual situations were different from what was stated on the programme, but that they couldn't elaborate because of confidentiality issues.  The students all attended the schools several years ago, but explained the continuing damage their experiences have had on their lives and wellbeing.  The programme did state that many students have happy experiences at the schools.  However, this programme is about 'the dark side' so they were not interviewed.   

Some  students only left in 2020/21

15 minutes ago, Geoff said:

As this thread is now active again, might I make a request on behalf of those outside Britain who will be unable to see this programme (the BBC is very strict at policing its international reach)?
 

Some people say they know ways around the BBC restrictions but many will not. As it seems this documentary may be of international relevance (or at least interest) perhaps someone who is planning to watch it could take a few notes and post a summary of the comment? 

This article, previewing some content of the programme, appeared on the bbc website this morning. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66720433

20 hours ago, littledancer99 said:

It’s so sad there are still teachers like this. Surely we can and should do better to recruit the best most motivational teachers? 
Old attitudes have no place. 
I am utterly sick of the poor excuses given. I’ve worked with children and young people and was extremely careful how I spoke to them. 

I really hope the documentary helps bring about real meaningful changes

or that more people speak out. Reminds me of the whole gymnastics system being under scrutiny 

There are still teachers like this because the schools in question prioritise protecting their brand rather than the young people in their care. When concerns are raised and investigations take place, these people are allowed simply to quietly leave to teach elsewhere. 

4 hours ago, oncnp said:

 

I wonder if the BBC will allow RBS and Elmhurst to defend themselves.  

I hope if they are given a voice in the programme they will use it to apologise to the students affected. 

17 hours ago, Drdee said:

I can say that the journalist leading this programme approached me through my capacity on the Safer Dance (Dance School Safeguarding Working Group). I do not think it will focus on one particular school it will depend on who they have interviewed. Points that came up in my conversation with the journalist was around teaching methods and approaches, mental health and well-being and outdated, and contradictory dietary advice. There is also going to be something on Radio 4 soonish that may focus much more on one particular school. I don’t think this is a witch hunt per se but there is much to unpack which warrants discussion. This generation of young dancers are much more vocal and will not tolerate some of the outdated conventions/practices. They are part of the solution so let’s hope they get a platform to have a voice. Having said that I hope it is a balanced argument.

There is at least one member of Safer Dance with vast experience of supporting dancers struggling with issues that are raised in this programme. I do hope they had some input into this programme also. (Assuming it is not you - apologies if it is but not sure if I can name names here) 

I wish your child the very best and can definitely see the positives that ballet has for students with neurodiversity. (And vice versa!)

My only advice is be insistent that reasonable adjustments are made should they be successful in auditioning for programmes and don’t assume these will automatically be offered. Our experience is with a physical need but the response we were given was an incredibly insensitive ‘it won’t be a problem till it’s a problem.’ They meant a problem for them - not my daughter! No adjustments were ever made and she just had to develop her own coping strategies. So, if we had our time again,  on this and many other things, I would be more prepared to be the nuisance parent! 

This is really interesting thank you for posting. With DD auditioning 2 years back to back (due to covid) our experience was very much that there was a strong shift in the second year towards applications requiring a EU passport. (Which ironically she was entitled to but did not come through in time due to covid backlogs!) 

1 hour ago, alison said:

Other graduates do get in - Melissa Hamilton and Nicol Edmonds are two who come to mind, plus a few what you might call "sideways transfers" at a high level - but it certainly seems to help.

Melissa Hamilton didn’t graduate from Elmhurst however. She trained privately in Greece with Masha Mukhamedov in what wound have been her graduate year. Her route to the company was (semi indirectly) through YAGP. 

12 hours ago, MaddieRose said:

Birmingham Hippodrome run sold out according to the BRB website! 

I’m not surprised- I know lots of people who have never seen a ballet but have booked to see this! There will be a local factor though, due to our fondness for Ozzy and Black Sabbath! 

I feel we are going around in circles a little here! So this will be my last thoughts on this subject. 

IF there are only a given number of places available and this funding is only available to students of a given nationality, then it is a logical step to assume the places for applicants that don’t meet this criteria is reduced. IF these places are additional then great! 

Access to ballet -  either as an art form to enjoy or as a vocation to be pursued - should be as level a playing field as possible. And, in my opinion, charitable donations should be used to this end. I’m yet to be convinced of how a pot of money only to support students of a given nationality can help fulfil this aim. 
As I stated earlier, I am not a naive ballet parent - I know these schools are businesses and that corporate donations and full fee paying, international students are needed for their financial survival. And I loved that my dd attended a truly international school with friends and classmates from around the world. All there  on merit, all talented, all hard-working and driven. It doesn’t mean I can’t raise a quizzical eyebrow every now and again. 

19 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

And how this is different than any other scholarship?

From our experience (not RBS) corporate sponsorships are given to support students that the school identifies as in need/worthy of financial support. As far as I am aware, the school will have its own criteria for these awards (which itself is far from transparent but I have delved as far as I can into the sponsorships in the school that my dd attended and none seem to have nationality as a criteria). So it unsettles me that this particular sponsorship does have nationality as a criteria as it excludes most applicants regardless of talent.  IF it ring fences places in year groups where there are only a set and relatively inflexible number of places available, it will limit opportunities for all other applicants regardless of talent or nationality. Of course, that ‘if’ remains unanswered. As I stated in an earlier post, my understanding was that Royal did have a set number of places in each year group, certainly in lower school. This may not be the case, in which case I am happy to be corrected. 

17 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

What evidence exist for this? I think you are making accusation without any evidence. There are multiple corporations from all over the world sponsoring the ROH. This is pretty normal in any non profit organization. 

Evidence for what? That the money is used to fund Japanese dancers through the school? That is stated in the press release…

 the continuation of their generous student sponsorship of our Japanese dancers.

The Group have graciously supported the training of Japanese students through the School since 2016. 
 

I’m not sure the onus should be on me for transparency.It seems to me, from our own personal experience and that of others, that transparency even within the school setting itself, is practically impossible to come by. 

13 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

Most of what we write, unless from direct personal experience, is speculation to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Surely the best way to check is to contact the school directly and ask them?

 

Please see my post above about charitable donations.

Surely the best thing would be transparency? 

36 minutes ago, alison said:

I read the initial statement to indicate that this was funding outside any "ring-fenced" funding.

I used ring fenced places in regard to the Japanese funding ensuring that some of the limited places at the school are earmarked for Japanese students only under this scheme.  If these are additional places, then that is totally different as it is not detracting from the opportunities of other applicants to gain a place. Do RBS have set numbers in each year? I believe that used to be the case in lower school especially.I know Elmhurst, for example, were often quoted as having much greater flexibility in this respect.  Happy to be corrected on that.

29 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

I think we should be happy that someone is supporting such a great institution!

Because it comes with strings attached? Because it ring fences places for dancers of a particular nationality?
Those of us who have had dancers go through the system (not just RBS) are not so naive as to not be aware of the corporate sponsorship of individual students and the ‘payback’ in terms of visibility of those students. It isn’t just a benevolent pot of money being entrusted to the schools to do with as they see fit to serve their underlying purpose. 

8 hours ago, Hanmah67 said:

Anyone got any recommendations of hotels close by. I was going to drive but not sure since can't park at the school. Considering the train now. 

 

Are they not opening up the Priory hospital parking? (And the connecting gate?) Worth asking? 

So a lyrical style dance? God Help the Outcasts from Hunchback of Notre Dame and For Good from Wicked spring to mind but our festival days were a fairly long time ago  and these may be over used now. 

PS this might be in the wrong part of Doing Dance but sure the mods will move. 

2 hours ago, LinMM said:

When any course is undertaken isn’t the content material pretty much well known for each term etc.? 
Is this not enough information to be able to self censor? 
So what does an actual official trigger warning on the material serve as an extra? ( eg: does having an official warning allow people on courses  to miss out certain content if they wish to?) 

My daughter absolutely did not want to miss out content not for content to be censored or banned but wanted to be prepared for its impact on her and for her lecturers to understand why the usually very outspoken student might appear withdrawn and not willing to participate in certain discussions or even conversely become very agitated and perhaps even confrontational in others (for example when discussing the works of certain high profile figures in the film industry who have since been convicted of violent acts against women.) Compassion and understanding was the key.  It allowed her to view the content prior to being viewed in public and to be in control of  how she would respond in that situation.  The breadth of films studied meant that, although it was easy to research content of some, for others it was more difficult/ not possible. With a diagnosed and significant mental health issue, the inclusion of trigger warnings for us was a reasonable adjustment to be made. And, to give credit to the course leader, he was, and continues to be, incredibly supportive. 
For people with PTSD, certain scenes and references are not merely upsetting or offensive to their sensitivities. They are what precisely what they say - a trigger of the horror of the original trauma. Sufferers can be taken immediately back to that moment and their response to it. They relive the moment. Warnings allow them some control. 

Apologies for not being ballet related, but as the mother of a non dancing daughter with PTSD I have to say that trigger warnings are absolutely crucial.  She fought hard with her university to ensure trigger warnings were included for her course (film and television production) to enable her to make an informed decision and prepare mentally to engage with the content of her course. I feel upset (and angry) at the negative labels such as snowflake, woke, over protected etc etc when she and many others are traumatised adults trying to safely navigate their way through life and who frequently spend their life in a heightened state of alert to triggers for their trauma. What harm does it do to highlight these? One lecturer did have the gall to suggest that maybe the course was not suitable for her due to her request for trigger warnings  - well she qualified with a first and is successfully working within the industry so clearly not so. What was needed was empathy and understanding - which costs little and impacts hugely. 

5 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

At RBS I understand that quite often the overseas dancers who don't qualify for DaDa are supported by scholarships and bursaries provided by Patrons or Friends.

Our experience (not at RBS) is that schools can offer bursaries and awards to students in receipt of DaDA funding too if they so wish and these can make a considerable difference. The problem is that it is not very transparent about how and why these are allocated - our income remained the same throughout DD’s 3 years of upper school and yet her additional awards increased each year. We never knew why (and we never asked for fear of them saying ‘oops sorry our mistake!’) Not that helpful if you are trying to forecast and budget but there are definitely pots of money available for U.K./non U.K. DaDA/non/DaDA students so it might be worth enquiring about those. 

In our experience, the focus is in protecting the brand rather than the student. Teachers are allowed to quietly leave and continue their teaching career elsewhere. 

Two quotes from the report that especially ring true for our experience:

“The way I got treated, the trauma, absolutely everything was even worse. And that makes it even harder to deal with, that all of this came from something I started when I was three years old - loving it, wanting to do it all the time - to something that changed my life completely," she said.

and

“I would go from like 8am to ‘weigh-time’ without drinking water just because it would have made my life easier in the long term because I wouldn't have to deal with the repercussions at training later in the day, if I just stopped myself from eating or drinking water.”

“It was honestly like a form of torture. You feel so trapped because you're being like hounded and screamed at and exercising to the point that you pass out and you couldn't leave; you couldn't tell anyone.”

🥲

Just watched this very unsettling report on ITV news - the parallels between their experiences and those of my DD and others in her year/school is stark - surely just a matter of time before the spotlight turns to vocational ballet training? 
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-11-08/the-weight-shaming-culture-that-sentenced-gymnasts-to-lifelong-health-issues