KeepDancing!!

I've heard results of the London prelims for RBS upper school have been coming out this afternoon.

Sorrr, I realised you said she is auditioning at RBS this weekend. Good luck and hope things go well for her.

Hi, you have two main options in the UK for an 11 year old, either a full time vocational school, RBS, Elmhurst, Tring are the three main classical options, or to attend a day school for academics and train after school and at weekends.

If you are hoping for her to attend one of these full time vocational schools auditions are already taking place for next year. They do preliminary rounds followed by final rounds in the Spring. I think you have already missed the window for applying to the Royal Ballet School this year, as they are already running their preliminary round auditions and the cut off for applications was October I believe. I'm not sure if Elmhurst and Tring may still allow applications?

All of these audition rounds are for entry next September(2022). On that basis you would now be looking at having to join the next round of auditions for entry in Sept 2023 for Royal Ballet school. As I said it might be possible to still apply for Elmhurst or Tring for next September, I'm not sure.

The other option would be to look for a very high standard school that provides after school training. I would recommend Masters of Ballet Academy in London, they run classes 6 days a week, Tuesday- Sunday for 3 hours a day, slightly longer on weekends with rehearsals etc. The training is Vaganova. This year their graduating students have got into some of the top vocational schools at 16 in UK and abroad: Royal Ballet School, English National Ballet School, Vaganova Academy in Russia, John Cranko in Germany and Bolshoi to name a few.

I saw that RBS have announced opening of applicaitons, but only doing in person auditions for y7 and y12 entry this year. All others by video for preliminaries. Although it's a bit frustrating that those who can apply in person still have to do a video and send in as a back up in case they can't run them in person.

On 24/05/2020 at 15:54, BattementBatty said:

 

 

My daughter is really enjoying the emailed lessons and I think they have improved over the weeks. Each one has a real focus and they are clearly talking through technique and referring back to what they do in class.  Obviously it’s not perfect but it’s a pretty good solution in this difficult situation.

 

Glad your dd is enjoying them. Unfortunately they are totally uninspiring for my DD. She hasn't done any of them and is instead doing a proper zoom class every saturday with her teacher outside associates.

Thanks for the link DD Driver. She was outstanding even at ten years old!!

DD was doing Princess Grace SI in Monaco, but that was cancelled last night too. Third summer school she was doing cancelled now. I just think this summer it will be the case that courses won't run.

19 hours ago, DanceMum83 said:

Really surprised haven’t heard much from people being offered places from swl. They don’t seem to want to offer any information which they normally would. 
mom also disappointed in them, that they’re only offering pre recorded videos for the associates and not zoom classes like central school of ballet. 
much harder to get them motivated for pre records and also don’t get the full class or any corrections. Really disappointing for my dad to end her royal journey like this. Not even any word of trying to arrange a class once this is over maybe as at least a last class to say goodbye to teacher and friends. 

18 hours ago, sunrise81 said:

The year 6 JA classes have been just as poor. My dd hates doing them, and if it wasnt for the fact that I am still expected to pay 50% fees for them, she wouldn't be bothering. Still also waiting for the refund from missed classes too. If this weeks lesson is just as uninspiring then I will be sending an email too. On the other hand her local dance school is going above and beyond, and every class is a Zoom class with personal corrections still. I am so disappointed in RBS, but not in any way surprised tbh.

Yes. Agree. Charging 50% fees for pre recorded class once a week, that is less than inspiring doesn't feel like value for money. No interaction or corrections. May as well do a free online ballet class being offered by so many ballet establishments at the moment. If they were sending them out free then I could understand but to charge 50% fees for this feels like a rip off. Not impressed with the offering from RBS for associates in this time.

1 hour ago, Mariska said:

Berlin State Ballet School - My DS has been there since the age of 9 and is very happy. He is now almost 16. He startet as a boarder. They take particular care of their foreogn students both pastoral care and language support. When our son wanted to go to vocational school, we also looked at Hamburg and Stutgart but didn't like the concept of school and dance being separate. Berlin is more like the vocational schools in the UK where everything is integrated into one school. http://ballettschule-berlin.de/en/

Hi Mariska

Have you got any information about the issues there have been at the Berlin state Ballet school recently? I read about it in an article an on their website it refers to this. I would be interested in getting more info about the school and whether these issues are a real problem there.

Many thanks

Thanks Wildflowers, that was a very interesting piece. It does highlight, not for the first time, just how intense the training in some places abroad is, and the students have got so far ahead (whether or not you agree with the methods) of UK students by an equivalent age.

I think most here agree we wouldn't want a regime of 5 hours sleep and dancing till midnight for our children, however, the relevant issue in some ways isn't that, it is that the school here, (in the article's case RBS) take those incredibly advanced students in and polish them up for entrance into the company. UK students who have been at their training establishment from 11 years old following their 'approved' way of training, will of course find it very hard to compete with that. Of course no one is saying adopt a regime equivalent to that the two students followed prior to coming to RBS, but there is a double standard at play here, and I don't know how we get around it. 

I do know someone who was assessed out of MAs a few years ago. It isn't common, but can happen.

On 05/03/2020 at 12:24, valentina said:

I’m sorry, but I disagree with this. I can’t speak for MA’s as I’ve never heard of any ‘ actually’ being assessed out. I guess in any school or institution where you are not behaving appropriately or representing the establishment in an appropriate way,  then you might be asked to leave.

From a WL point of view, especially in yr 10, it is very clear to EVERYBODY  what happens when the class sizes swell to a disproportionate size with new exclusively international students of an extremely high standard who will be ready to replace the WL students in upper school. Believe me, it has nothing to do with ‘ not representing the school in a good light’ or ‘looking or behaving in a certain way’. It is all about talented students who have received excellent training abroad and reached a higher standard.

Again, this sounds like it comes back to a topic that has been much discussed on the forum, that the standard of training abroad is often higher than in the UK. It seems very unfair on UK students, what can they do if there is a different level of training internationally than in schools here? And why are the UK schools not achieving this level of training for local students?

There was also the conviction of Stephen Beagley, ex royal ballet principle in november last year for sexual assaults of students he gave private lessons to over many years - he is now serving a ten year prison sentence.

I agree Canary, the welfare of children and vulnerable young adults remains of paramount importance. We all trust the teachers we put our children into the hands of. Sometimes, this trust is abused.

From what I learned reading the various newspaper articles about Yat Sen Chang, the magistrate has referred the case to the crown court, due to the serious nature of the charges against him, and the CPS have brought the case now after 3 years conducting their investigation and building their case. 

One of the things I felt would have been useful to clarify was age ranges. At first he seemed to be talking about pre vocational students, for which I am sure all would agree that limits on training can only be a good thing. Then it seemed to broaden out to all students later in the piece. There must be an age at which the level of training does need to increase in intensity and hours. I remember Claudia Dean posted a series of youtube videos discussing this a while ago. She had given specific age groups and amounts of training that were necessary/appropriate. So for instance by the age of 15 she was advocating students seriously wanting a shot at a professional career should have stepped up their hours considerably, but aged 11/12 the hours were far more moderate.

There has to be an element of realism in any discussion like this I feel. And the reality is that internationally students who are training seriously pre professionally are putting in a lot of highly intensive and individualised hours, with a view to winning opportunities on the international competition circuit to gain entrance to the most prestigious schools. This is very different to the UK approach to training.

Royal are no different from other prestigious schools around the world in that they do take in a lot of these intensively trained international students, usually from year ten upwards at Wl and obviously for upper school.

Sorry edited to add  - I do think that a balance needs to be struck, we all want dance students to train in a manner which looks after their physical and mental well being, but you also can't ignore the fact that  the standards internationally are being set by students who are training more intensively than schools train in the uk.

13 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

No reflection on you Amos but please can people remember there are not different levels of MDS awards.... you either are awarded one or not & from there it is a means tested amount.... the higher the household income, the more a family contribute towards training costs, the lower the household income, the less a family pay as more or all of the fees will be covered by the government. It is in effect like a social benefit. An award of an MDS is a reward for talent but remember some do not qualify to apply (not long enough residency in UK even if a UK citizen ie. located abroad for work, location such as Jersey - I think! - or fact that a family may have other benefits such as being military may actually cover significant amounts of fees already) or no need to apply. It in no way makes these DC’s without MDS inferior or less talented. I know the journey is so traumatic with places so fought for & funding even more so that we want to feel every moment of success but actually it should end with the achievement of getting offers of places... funding should be a very private affair relating to family finances. 

To clarify, extract from the elmhurst website says

the MDS focuses on classical ballet training in the Lower School (Years 7 – 11) with continuity of means-tested support for the most talented children entering Year 7. Under present arrangements, these Aided Places are allocated to the most gifted and eligible children aged 11 years on entry to the school each September. Subject to successful artistic appraisal in Year 9, MDS funding continues until the completion of Year 11.

Yes, you have to be eligible, and they are means tested, and they are awarded based on talent.

ENBS results have been sent. I know students with offers.

Have the Royal upper results been sent for non wl students?

I have heard anywhere between 5 and 9 boys from WL got offers at upper school, and 5 girls.Happy to be corrected if this is wrong!

49 minutes ago, Dancer123 said:

What does the physio check again in the recall? Could you have of passed physio on first check?

There isn't any other physio check at Tring. At the funding audition they select a group who go for physio, the rest never get seen by the physio

Eastleigh has less children applying so the ratio of those applying to places given is lower and therefore if you want to maximise chance of a place it might make sense to apply there. London JA centre always has the highest number of applicants and the highest ratio to places, something like one in ten will get a place, other centres it can be anything from one in four to one in seven.

27 minutes ago, MrsDanceMammy said:

I hadn’t realised that final WL results contained MA offers? If MA isn’t mentioned in results this week are we correct to assume no MA place is being offered either?

 No, current MAs who had their assessments have been told if they can continue with MAs next year.

The MA results for new applicants from auditions will be sent out before Easter.

5 minutes ago, valentina said:

I am not disputing that there are obvious issues with the low number of lower school pupils graduating to upper school. If we compare to Paris Opera where most ( not all) seem to go through the whole system. However, I feel your account of acceptance of international students is a little biased. There were 3 new students accepted into yr 9  last September, all British and not competition winners.

Hi Valentina,

That is very good to hear about the UK students accepted into y9 last September. Thanks for sharing that.

I was referring to students being told this year that international students had been given places for September start pre-assessment.

11 hours ago, balletcoach said:

I think the answer is simple, in GB regulations.... not allowing teachers push to hard ( health&safety, 'child abuse',  etc...) And also WL students not allowed to take part in competitions in the first place as it can 'damage' them and disturb their studies. Take note, that those international competition winners mostly home educated, private over coached, hardly pushed children ('abused' in the studio 24/7). There are few who were not really talented 'ballet children' only some years ago, now are the stars, because of all said above + really extreem strive to succeed. 

I don't know what else it can be.

Ballet Coach, sorry I wasn't quite clear - are you saying you disagree with the approach taken by international competition winners, and that the UK method of not allowing teachers to 'push hard' is in your opinion a better approach?

As this thread from last year was resurrected I took the time to re read it all from start to finish. It truly makes for sorrowful and depressing reading. In terms of all the issues that have been raised in the personal and sometimes harrowing posts people made under this subject I would expect it must all feel very raw yet again at this time of year as some UK students and parents face the pain and bewilderment of having been told their child is 'no longer suitable' for the training the school handpicked them for a year or two ago.

I personally know people affected by this. There has been a large amount of current students assessed out of various years at WL in the past few weeks, and from other vocational schools. In one case students were told in advance their places could be at risk pre assessment, as spaces had been given in an already full year to international students for September. This was also before any of the final auditions were held for potential entry to that year. At the final audition for that particular year there were a few UK students but a majority of international students. No Uk students were given a place. What message does this give out? 

For the students who have been asked to leave they now face the worrying time of trying to find a place to continue their vocational training in one of the other schools in the UK whose classes may already be full or close to. This is a problem which could be compounded by places at White Lodge being given to international students, meaning spaces haven't been made in the other vocational schools here in the UK. Once can only imagine that some of these very students may well have turned down places at the other UK schools for y7 in order to accept a place at White Lodge - and now find themselves in this situation.

As Royal upper school have their final auditions this weekend  it will be interesting to see a) how many non White Lodge UK students have made it to finals, and b) out of these and the current White Lodge students how many are offered places. I would like to hope it is a different story to last year, and that a large proportion of the original White Lodge cohort do get places, which might go some way to restore people's faith in UK training, rather than it be the case that the majority of places go to either international students (competition winners and otherwise) or International Students brought in for a year or two at the end of White Lodge.

Many thanks Valentina. Do you have a DC at Tring?

Sorry posting this here as well as on Tring auditions thread as I wasn't sure which was best. Just wondering if anyone knows how many spaces there might be on the dance course at Tring  for y9 entry in September? Friend of mine who isn't on here has a DC who has funding finals (currently y8 at another vocational school). They are hoping to know likelihood of funded place.

Thanks!

Just wondering if anyone knows how many spaces there might be on the dance course for y9 entry in September? Friend of mine who isn't on here has a DC who has funding finals (currently y8 at another vocational school). They are hoping to know likelihood of funded place.

Thanks!

2 minutes ago, rudolph23 said:

They have sent yes's too.  Ours was a no x

Very sorry to hear that - I hope your DC isn't too upset.

Which year and audition centre were you at?

A friend of mine is still waiting to hear from the first London audition.

x