Tulip

My daughter was a full time student at CSB, she previously attended Tring full time. Central’s training is very high standard. Those students selected they believe will make it into the professional world of dance. Students are treated like adults as the school starts from age 16 and up, which is excellent preparation for when they join the professional world. My daughter has worked as a dancer since graduating from Central a few years ago now. I would highly recommend Central, training is thorough and prepares them well for their future careers.  

2 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

Your post reminds me of something I witnessed at Tring first-hand. While my dd was still a recreational dancer, she used to attend their dance days and workshops. At one of them, to which parents were invited to observe class, there was a long table in the main building full of tea, coffee, and piles of cakes and biscuits. We had all eaten our fill, and while we waited to be called in to watch our kids, a class of teenage full-timers burst out of their studio, charged along the corridor on the way to their next class and helped themselves to the offerings on the table as they went. It was like a plague of locusts had descended, and there was very little left after they'd gone. I wondered whether they were allowed to help themselves to food laid out for visitors, looked at a member of staff standing by me and she said with a grin:  "They burn off a lot of energy, they need it!". That left me feeling very positive that at that school at least, there was a healthy attitude towards eating.

Unfortunately not. I raised concerns to the director at the time about my daughter losing too much weight. She made me out to be a nuisance, and quote ‘what is the problem, I’m very busy’. I made her listen, but after that, she did everything in her power to make my daughters life uncomfortable. Thank goodness a few teachers there supported and looked out for my daughter. 
I tried to pull my daughter out of that school, but she begged and begged to stay, as she wanted the training. 

On 12/09/2023 at 21:06, Ondine said:

 

His tweets are here, for information.

 

The schools he has listed are

 

Royal Ballet School, Elmhurst, Hammond, Young Dancers Academy,  English National Ballet, Ballet Theatre UK

 

Though of course this is no way an 'official' investigation, this is a legal firm.  Legal firms make money from litigation.

 

 

 

 

 

So anyone wishing to contact him, do please ask about fees.

Very surprised Tring isn’t up there

49 minutes ago, Anna C said:

When we send our children to school, we trust that school to care for our children.  Whether it be a ballet school, a music school, a sports academy, a Faith school or even an everyday academic school, while the students are on the premises, the school has a Duty of Care.

 

As I said earlier, as Parents, we don’t know what we don’t know.  Wouldn’t it be lovely to be able to go back in time?  Wouldn’t it be great if we could shelter our children and not let them audition for Associates or full-time training, whether that be in ballet, music, football, whatever they are talented in and dream of becoming?

 

But would they thank us for it?  I don’t think so.  If they audition/apply for elite training, and get selected at RBS/Elmhurst/ENBS or any of the other big, long established, “famous” schools in receipt of public funding, are any of us as parents going to say “Well done darling, but I’m not going to let you accept your place in case you end up with boobs/hips/thighs like mine”.  I mean there’s a fairly big chance that they won’t (my daughter has a completely different body shape than me, and longer limbs than my husband; my sister in law was the first redhead in her family since a great great grandparent) - and believe me, if that’s the case, a teenager will have no hesitation in reminding you ad infinitum that you DID NOT LET THEM TRY.

 

If a child is selected for one of the best and most famous institutions in the world, we should be able to entrust them to that institution without the fear that they will be abused, bullied, shamed, humiliated, driven to self-harm or worse.  Of course personality plays a part (it’s no coincidence that Oxbridge has a much higher number of students with Imposter Syndrome than Aberystwyth (no offence to Aberystwyth at all); likewise it’s no coincidence that so many ballet students are perfectionists with an extremely vocal inner critic, especially when they’ve been forced to stare at their bodies in a mirror for hours on end, wearing only a leotard and tights).  But blaming a student - or that student’s parent - for abuse suffered while they are at a world renowned school, is unacceptable.  It’s victim blaming.

 

The student who was accepted into Upper School, and in her first week, was told by a teacher “If I had a knife, this is what I would cut off” - no parent could predict that a TEACHER would say that to their 16 year old.
 

In last night’s programme, Jack’s parents had gone through the unimaginable.  Is anyone here going to tell them that they shouldn’t have let their son go to ballet school?  Do you think it’s not something they’ve asked themselves over and over again?

 

Of course we have to look out for our children.  But we should also let them try for their dreams, and use the talents they have.  As much as we’d like to, we cannot shelter them from everything.  And we should be able to trust that they will be safe at school.

 

 

 

 

Very well said Anna x

6 minutes ago, StephanieM said:

As a parent with a child whose dream is to be a ballerina I follow this forum (along with others) and anything else I can find to educate myself as much as possible about the industry. It is my job as a parent to make sure that what I do is in the best interests of my child. I know my daughter best which means that I (and not a school or teacher) have a better idea of how much dedication, drive and resilience she has and whether it may be enough to enter an elite field. I also have the best idea of her mental and emotional maturity. I am also best placed to asses how her body will (more than likely) develop during puberty based on that of my family and my husbands family. Family genes! Parents can definitely get a better idea of likely outcomes than a school or teacher ever could at an audition. 

 

Railing against the institutions and

saying “but things should be different” changes nothing. This will be an unpopular opinion but it needs to be said - it all ultimately starts and ends with the parents. It is the job of the parents to manage a child’s expectations as to what is realistic and achievable for that child. It seems in far too many cases that it is the parents dream for the child (their own vicarious dream) that is being enabled. My child has been dancing since she was 4. She is now 9 and doesn’t even realise/understand that vocational schools exist and what that actually means. A child isn’t born with the dream of going to vocational school. They were sold that dream along the way. The only way a child can know of what is possible is if these aspirations were fostered by others - be it parents or dance teachers or friends etc. It is ultimately a parent’s job to step in and manage expectations. If you don’t want a dance teacher indicating in code that your child’s physical attributes may not be suitable to ballet, do it yourself!! You can only fight family genes so far, ultimately, and it sounds much better coming from a parent!

 

As an outsider with no ballet knowledge whatsoever, it is extremely obvious to me what a ballet physique is likely to entail and that it is rare in the general population. There is absolutely nothing wrong with explaining to your child as they develop that their physique is perfect in every way but just may not necessarily be suited to ballet - in the same way their body won’t necessarily be suited to any other elite sport. Whether that is fair or unfair is not a helpful discussion. It is the reality at this time and that information should be discussed openly and lovingly by a parent with their child. If a teacher criticised my child’s physique, I would remind her of our discussion and explain again she is perfect in every way but just maybe not for ballet (like many, many others) and that we knew this time may come. There are so many other fulfilling careers in the industry and not everyone can be a ballerina no matter how badly we may want to be one. 

 

Body dysmorphia and poor diet is a huge problem for many children of all ages today - whether they are dancers or not - and it is our job as parents to instil appropriate values and eating habits from the day they are born so that they are not at the mercy of what the outside world throws at them like a leaf in a storm. We need to do better. A child arriving at a vocational school already with body issues or not having it explained to them in advance by their parents (in a loving and sensitive way) that they may look significantly different as they go through puberty (through no fault of their own) and hence ballet may not necessarily be a career for them, is a recipe for disaster. It is likely that many children will feel that they (or their bodies) are letting their parents down….the very parents who have worked so hard, sacrificed so much and supported them to get in. Letting down your parents (in reality or thinking you have done so) is a huge burden for a child to carry. 

 

If you are not able to develop your child’s self confidence, self worth, resilience and understanding of what the rigours of elite training will entail in an honest and realistic manner (ie having some difficult discussions based on the Panorama documentary as well as the many anecdotes on this forum) perhaps life at a vocational school may not be a suitable option for your child. 

These children have been chosen because vocational schools believe that these children have the correct attributes for a classical career. However when children are going through puberty their body goes through lots of changes, their final body won’t be matured until much later. Some (not all) teachers are humiliating and body shaming these students at their most vulnerable and hormonal time in their lives. These children already have strong muscles in their thighs and calves, during puberty these muscles can shorten and bunch up, making the student think that their legs are fatter and bigger. 
children board at these schools, very often they do not tell their parents so to avoid conflict in school. I could right an essay from a parents view. I was one who complained, my goodness that principal made my daughter suffer. I wanted to pull my daughter out, but she begged to stay and it was right on top of GSCE’s. She moved schools aged 16 to another top ballet school in London where she thrived and gained a professional dance career. 

6 hours ago, Ballet_novice said:

This is not true. And believe me there is a very open dialogue between parte an and school. This documentary tend to be sensationalistic and so not offer a balanced view

It definitely is true, I whitenesses myself so many times. If you raise concerns, funding is withdrawn, parts in shows are removed, life is made uncomfortable for your child. It is difficult to take your child out because you are coming to GCSE time or are already in it. Also if your child is so driven, they will put up with that abuse, and will not forgive you for protecting them. Everything spoke about in that documentary is true and no doubt continuing. My daughter did make it and is still dancing professionally now, but she refuses to speak about her vocational school. 

On 06/09/2023 at 17:08, oncnp said:

While I do not doubt the horror stories told on this forum, there are two sides to every story and I'd like to hear the other one

Well that might require naming teachers, then they could defend their behaviour, it certainly would be interesting to hear their side of events. 

I’ve just watched the documentary and sadly everything the dancers said was true. Body dysmorphia, eating disorders, mental torture, all sounds very familiar. As a parent I heard it, but didn’t recognise the meaning behind the code words. My husband couldn’t watch this documentary, because we were all affected by it.  

My daughter attends adult ballet classes in both Liverpool and Manchester in between her professional contracts, MdK something like that??? I’ll ask her next time she WhatsApps me. 

My daughter graduated from Central and thankfully has never been out of work. During the pandemic she applied to universities to study physiotherapy and at one point her favourite subject physics at Liverpool university. She did GCSE’s and her degree at Central, she was accepted into all the  universities that she applied for. She was about to start her physics degree, but she gained another contract dancing on The Royal Caribbean Cruise ship 3,900 dollars per month. Her degree was never wasted. Most people in her year gained contracts. 

It is so sad. My daughter is performing and working with Ukrainian and Russian colleagues, all of them are good friends, no one wants this war, only one crazy man 

It’s disgraceful that schools/summer schools are still requesting childrens weights. They can see from photos what a CHILD looks like, YES I use that word again CHILD. How does that child feel, being weighed to get accepted for an audition, what little voice is whispering in that child’s ear. 
This has gone on for years, and it’s totally unacceptable and out of date.
My daughter danced in the senior royal ballet summer school a few times and loved it. I don’t remember weighing her, but she was already body aware for ballet by that point. During a conversation with her, now she is an adult and a professional dancer, I asked her at what point where you aware of your body. Shockingly she told me that it began with height, she was slightly taller than her friends at her non vocational school, meaning bigger not taller, she was six. 
Once at vocational school, weight was never hidden, but that’s another conversation. We shouldn’t be weighing our children for non medical reasons, it’s not healthy, be very careful with your beautiful, beautiful dancers xx

I’m late replying as I only dip in and out of the forum. Happy first decade and a huge thankyou to all you moderators, without you, there wouldn’t be this group. My daughter is now a professional dancer and she loves her hard worked for career. The dance journey is like stepping into a storm, with so many twists and turns. I had so much support from older members, do you remember ms Barghi, can’t remember the spellings now, was it Anjula????, I loved her straight to the point advice, she was amazing, I wonder what became of her? I’m happy to answer any questions if ever I can help. 
carol x

There are lots of adult classes for advanced dancers in Liverpool and Manchester. My daughter attends these classes in between contracts. I’ll ask her when she WhatsApps me. 

This sounds so familiar, this teachers behaviour has nothing to do with your child. It is this adult teachers problems, they are being cruel and damaging to children. This is a safeguarding concern. However like all the rest of us who have been there, you either address this situation or not. I did address the situation for my child, but seeing as it was the director of dance that was being cruel, all the other teachers where too scared to say anything. 
Because all the other teachers were lovely with my daughter and strongly believed and supported her, we allowed her to stay in the school. The principle didn’t teach, but she could cause a lot of emotional damage if she chose too. 
Good luck with this situation, but it is not your child, it’s the teacher who is massively at fault. 

I have just watched a video of my daughter’s showreel. She is classically professionally trained, so movement’s and steps are drilled into her. When I watch her face, it’s like she’s one with the music, she moves and breathes it. I can’t explain it, but it’s natural to her. One thing she can deliberately do is to use her eyes in a natural way, she can naturally connect with her audience without looking at them. I think she was naturally born with the ability to feel music. So my advice is, just feel and breath the music. Your training will support beautiful expression. 

My daughter went to full time vocational school aged 12-16, the director of this school was down right cruel to my daughter, and this was purely because we as her parents had dared to raise our concerns. Our daughters other teachers tried to protect her from this director, putting her back together. She would be given parts in the show, for the director to walk in and take the part off her. She begged us not to say anything, as she wanted to make it as a dancer. At 16 she went to Central School  of ballet, where thankfully she thrived, and is now a professional dancer. 
As a parent I would never have believed that this behaviour would be allowed by staff towards vulnerable young children, parents were made to shut up, or lose their funding etc etc. 
So research, if your child secures a place, don’t be made to shut up, don’t get caught up in the swirling pool, don’t allow yourself to be threatened with funding. 
Lots of children have a fantastic time, just don’t get caught up in it all, good luck 

I am so very proud of Paula and for all her hard work. Paula deserves this recognition. Dr Mohan is now being investigated for her actions. Oliver was a healthy active teenager, he was bright and intelligent and he had autism.  

My daughter is now a professional dancer and no longer thankfully requires my support in the dancing world. Yup been there and worn the T-shirt xx

Oliver was given that drug even though it was written on his bed, in his records and on his medical passport. Oliver was promised that he wouldn’t be given the drug by the doctors. It took one neurologist to ignore Oliver based on his mild autism, she removed all Oliver’s decisions and human rights, even though he had full capacity. That neurologist killed Oliver. 
Olivers parents continue to educate and fight for people who have autism and disabilities, they have fought tirelessly to get Oliver the justice he deserves. It’s so good to have support for this beautiful family from this forum.  

Hopefully Oliver will now get justice. Well done to Primrose and her husband, Oliver’s father for fighting, unearthing medical negligence covered up. Bringing mandatory training for all doctors and nurses, so no other family have to suffer like Oliver did. 

This is exactly the issue Kanangra.  Some of the students admitted into vocational schools are not gifted dancers.  Maybe they look like someone's ideal of a ballerina.  I want to see talented people on stage.  People who are beautiful in motion, showing musicality and artistry that moves me. 

I see too many gifted full time ballet students being rejected by vocational schools, PDL and YAGP because they do not fit the mould.  Meanwhile they win the local and national Eisteddfods and comps because of their stage presence.  They are chosen as soloists in their ballet school productions because anyone can see they have 'it'.  Frankly, many who are chosen by the vocational schools can't cut it with these performers.   I can't change any of that!  I'm just saying it is very obvious to all involved. Sigh.

DD Driver, 

from your observation above of young dancers in vocational schools, forgive me if I’ve misunderstood you, suggests that you have sat and made a judgment of these students. You say in your opinion that some dancers in vocational schools are not gifted dancers, how do you know this?  The gifted dancers whom you have observed have been rejected by vocational schools, you say anyone can see they have it, but are you a trained professional dance teacher from an industry who knows which dancers will be employable. 
 

my whole point of me commenting on this thread was to point out that it is not only schools that put our children under so much pressure to be extra lean, but it is definitely parents who sit watching critically, she’s too thin, she’s put a bit on, she’s bulking those muscles up. 
 

It seems in the dance world a huge amount of adults mess with our children’s minds, contributing to body dystopia, never being good enough etc. 
Hence the comment ‘We dancers all end up being a little messed up to survive the dance world’. 
 

But very often it’s the parents who sit there watching these children dance doing the criticising, judging their weight, talent etc etc. They think that it is ok to say she only got chosen because she’s skinny, but she’s not talented enough and is forgetful. My child is far more talented but can’t get a place because etc etc. Inside vocational schools can be bad enough, but some parents who don’t always know the requirements for classical full time training, sit there making critical judgements. It’s cruel and distasteful. 

16 minutes ago, Tulip said:

I mean Peony discusses Rojo and gives her opinion whether it is correct or not, about why she didn’t get a contract. Unless I’ve mis-understood, was this opinion based upon observation or fact. 

Actually I think I’ve got my wires crossed, I’m watching line of duty, my nerves are shot 😂😂😂

19 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I don't understand your first sentence.

I mean Peony discusses Rojo and gives her opinion whether it is correct or not, about why she didn’t get a contract. Unless I’ve mis-understood, was this opinion based upon observation or fact.