BalletDad10

Bet you can't wait for the Gala at Sadlers Wells tonight. I saw the performance at Sevenoaks and was so impressed. So much young talent in the NYB ranks. Good luck everyone.

Within a couple of weeks. JA Final Audition next Sunday 22nd, so a few days after that I reckon. Good luck.

While I agree that schools should be more supportive of dance, it's hard to change every individual's thinking that ballet is just a hobby, etc. I think my DD has very similar feelings to Swan Princess, but in her case the parental roles are reversed. I'm the supportive one and her mother is always telling her to give up ballet and concentrate on her studies. It used to worry me that we weren't singing from the same hymn sheet, but in recent years I've changed my mind and come to see it as a plus. Let me explain. 

First, I think our DC need both positive and negative perspectives. The former gives them encouragement and confidence, and the latter keeps their feet on the ground and makes them work on the things that need improving. Second, it helps them get used to different types of people. As they go through life, our DC are going to come across teachers, choreographers, dancers, etc. with a whole range of personalities. And third, wouldn't it be worse if all the people around you were one type? If everyone was telling you how wonderful you were, you wouldn't try hard. And if they all said you were wasting your time and should give up, then you probably would. Either way, it would be much harder to succeed.

So SP, I would use your Mum for support and your Dad for motivation. And I can guarantee you as a Ballet Dad myself, we ALL love our DDs. As one of the Mums pointed out above, we're just not very good at expressing ourselves. Good luck.

Great stuff. I really think the dancing helps the academics. They compliment (or refresh) each other.

I was thinking of starting a similar thread, but on a slightly different tack. Why don't we make a list of benefits/advantages that our DC get from ballet that can be useful in any work or life setting. I'll try kicking things off.

Social Skills such as: 

Teamwork

Working to deadlines

Conflict Management

Sharing

Discussion

Networking

Physical Benefits such as:

Fitness

Elegance (?)

Weight management (??)

Training

Exercise

Nutrition

Creative skills such as:

Imagining

Visualizing

Inventing

Outlining

Composing

Editing

Teaching

Over to you… When it's complete, we can print it off and present it to those head teachers, neighbors, spouses, etc. and pin it on the wall to remind us all when we have to fork out for yet another pair of pointe shoes.

Yes. Good news. FYI English National Ballet have just announced the 8 nominees for their Emerging Dancer Award. 3 of them are NYB Alumni.

Did anyone go along? I'm in Japan so obviously couldn't.

If anyone's interested in how sports science works in the ballet world, I highly recommend this short film about Patrick Rump's work with the Royal and ENB. It's really interesting. My DD had a session with his team last August. 

Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLLc4mHRUGY

Some wonderful posts on this thread of great interest to us. DD trains in Japan, where we live, and does summer schools in the UK. I think she benefits from having both. It's all been said except perhaps to remind ourselves that every child is different so they don't ALL have to do this at 11 and that at 16, just when they're ready. There are many roads to the top, just read a few profiles of professional ballet dancers. Like many parents I want her to find her own path, and enjoy a variety of dance and life experiences along the way, wherever it leads. 

No problem. The NYB 'family' is very friendly and is always on the lookout for new talent. It's a performance-based summer school. After the 10 days in Tring, there are 5 shows usually in the south of England, then a Gala in London a week later. So all those costs have to be factored in. I'm a huge fan.

http://www.creativitypost.com/psychology/is_grit_stifling_our_creativity

This article "Is grit stifling our creativity?" is an interesting read and relevant to our discussion. There's a reference to ballet at the beginning which will strike a chord with many of you. Looking forward to reading your comments.

I hope your enquiries have been answered. I didn't know about "Waking Mozart". I make that 8 ballets in total so far. Amazing.

Some excellent posts flying in on this thread at all hours of the day and night. I'm in Japan so we're 8 hours ahead of you. I was reading your posts last night before going to bed, and while I was having breakfast (after midnight your time), my phone was pinging away. Me with a cup of coffee and you with a glass of something stronger perhaps...

Something else to throw in the mix. Do you think the selection criteria for ballet companies are different from those at vocational schools or broadly similar? In other words, what are the chances of getting into a ballet company for dancers that are rejected by UK ballet schools? I'm thinking of late developers, for example, or dancers that don't have the body shape at 16 that the vocational schools are looking for. 

I'm fairly late on the ballet scene so although I will be auditioning everywhere (and I mean everywhere, provided audition dates don't clash), on the off chance that I get in, I'm more likely to go down the teaching route as I think it would be very hard to receive training to be professional outside an US. I assist in teaching Baby, Pre-Primary and Primary ballet classes in exchange for my own classes, I've also recently started a home education GCSE course which means I can get a part-time job (that wasn't why I started the HE course, it's just a plus) to pay for private lesson in an attempt to catch up with my peers, and hopefully I'll be able to save enough over the next 2 and half months to pay for a few per week over the summer -I didn't apply to any summer schools this year as I didn't feel I was ready.

 

As to whether I have confidence in UK training: I have the utmost confidence in vocational schools (that's why so many international students apply to UK schools), outside of those however, unless you're going to five different schools and taking the same classes at each, I think it's very hard to get enough hours in; at the moment I'm only doing 6 hours/ week (it'll be 10 soon), which I don't feel is anywhere near enough and yet everyone else at my studio is absolutely astounded that I'm taking "that many" classes!

PrettyPointes. I'm so impressed with your tenacity and dedication to ballet training when the odds seemed to be stacked against you. This will stand you in good stead whatever you end up doing in life. I think my DD is a fighter too. Regarding summer school, there are so many to choose from that I'm sure you could find one to suit your needs. Have a look at the Summer School threads for more info or to ask questions. Look forward to reading more of your posts and good luck to you.

Yes, thanks for posting the film about Elmhurst and the letter from David Bintley. Lots of useful information and insights. It would have been nice to hear some interviews with the staff and students at Elmhurst.

Re Fiz's post. Of course going to a top vocational school gives young dancers many advantages, but it's not the only way to get into a ballet company. Reading some of the dancers profiles shows that like in any profession, there are many roads to the top. What do others think?

My DD first did NYB when she was 12 and there were other residential students her age. I think you could make a request for your girls to be in the same room. Everyone's very friendly and helpful. This is NYB's 27th year I think, so they have lots of experience. 

NYB have started sending out contracts for their exciting new season. DD is thrilled to be involved again this year. There are seven ballets listed and one more in the pipeline. Lots of new work. Can't wait.

Here's an interesting take on the 10,000 hours of practice theory. Could the example at the end of the article, about preparations for an American Football game, be comparable to putting on a ballet performance?

http://www.salon.com/chromeo/article/ditch_the_10000_hour_rule_why_malcolm_gladwells_famous_advice_falls_short/ 

One way of finding a reputable summer school in Europe is to work from the list of Prix de Lausanne partner schools.

http://www.prixdelausanne.org/v4/index.php/partner-schools.html 

Let us know how you get on.

I wonder if there's anyone who can answer your question. Have you tried asking NYB directly? I'd expect them to tailor auditions to the specific ballets they have chosen/commissioned for the 2014 season (link below). Best of luck in the finals.

http://nationalyouthballet.org/2014-season/ 

Hope this link works for "Can 10,000 hours of practice make you an expert?" (BBC News)

http://m.bbc.com/news/magazine-26384712

What a fascinating debate. I can certainly relate to the points you made about using new research in a practical teaching context (although I'm not a ballet teacher). I can also back up what was said about the 'hedging' language used in science reports. I specifically teach this in my academic writing classes. Melody's post exposing the potential breakdown in communication between researchers, the media and practitioners (teachers and dancers) was particularly memorable and useful for me.

I want to get back to main topic of this thread, comparing training in the UK and overseas. Here's Ribbons (#103) who started this topic...

I suppose when I started this thread I was looking at the standard achieved in the UK by the age of 16 when auditioning for 6th forms versus the apparently higher standard achieved by those in other countries, particularly Asian countries. This then carries on to a higher standard of achievement at company auditions 3 years later.

 

I assumed that the reason for this was the training systems we have for under 16 vocational ballet training (not necessarily just in vocational schools). So it seems that although the training provided is generally good within the schools and in a number of local ballet schools, the key difference seems to be that other countries seem to put in more training hours at a younger age, rather than a different system of training. 

 

I suppose this is consistent with all other pursuits as well - how often have we seen musical 'prodigies' at the age of 4 or 5 from those countries? I can't remember which book it was but I think it was Malcolm Gladwell who said that these musical prodigies are no more talented than in other countries, its just that by age 4, they have already done hundreds of hours more practice than an equally talented British child and this means they are way ahead.

 

I'm not suggesting we all adopt this intensive tiger-mother approach, but maybe there is a case for more hours at age 10-15 than is the current norm?

There's another book similar to the one you're referring to called "Bounce" by Matthew Syed? The subtitle is "The myth of talent and the power of practice". He believes that we only become good at something by putting in the hours (the 10,000 theory) but it has to be the right kind of practice. It's also about mindset, passion, focus, stretching your limits and many other things impossible to cover here. I saw an article recently about putting this to the test in sport which might interest you:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26384712 

The way I see summer schools is either the devil you know, or the devil you don't. If your DC go back to one they've done before, you/they know exactly what to expect. Trying a new one is a bit of a lottery. Whatever anyone else says about it, you'll never know whether it suits your DC until they give it a try. And even if the school turns out to be below their level or doesn't meet your/their expectations, they will be able to take away something positive. They will be seen by new teachers and choreographers, and will hopefully make new friends, both of which widen that all important network. Plus while their 'parent' schools are closed for the summer, it'll keep them physically tuned and less likely to get injured. This summer we are looking at a combination of both types, one DD has done before and one she hasn't. But it's still good to ask around… Has anyone got any info about Central SS?

Sorry about that folks.

I really agree with the points you both made re the previous article. But I wonder whether we/I sometimes wrap our children in cotton wool, not just in a ballet context.

Here's a link to another article with relevance to many of the themes on this excellent thread:

"Why do dancers get injured so often?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/dance/10580011/Why-do-dancers-get-injured-so-often.html

Looking forward to your insights as always.

That's the spirit. My DD gets more determined when she gets a No. There are lots of other opportunities as others have said. Good luck.

Oh. I'll try that link again:

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2014/feb/12/ballet-grand-dames-gillian-lynne-bery-grey-push-dancers-limit#start-of-comments

Some fascinating posts here. We live in Japan and according to DD's teacher, a Brit who has lived here for over 20 years, the level of ballet is very high technically but less so artistically. There are ballet competitions (concours) held all over the country throughout the year, and students from Japan often feature in the Prix de Lausanne. This year Japanese dancers finished 1st(M), 2nd(F) and 6th(M).

From a personal point of view, I think that DD is getting a balance of both East and West, the high technical demands and work ethic of the former, and the expression and imagination of the latter. She also does summer schools in the UK which we both love.

FYI she went on pointe at 11y 9m. I delayed it as long as possible. I took her to the doctor for X-rays so we could check if her bones had ossified sufficiently. All her peers were on pointe before her so I wasn't popular.

Here's an article relevant to our discussion which might deserve a thread of its own. Did anyone catch them in Ealing?

"Ballet's Gillian Lynne and Beryl Grey: Dancers should be pushed to the limit"

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2014/feb/12/ballet-grand-dames-gillian-lynne-bery-grey-push-dancers-limit