Moonbeam

2 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

They haven't done anything to deserve your loyalty.

 

You are a customer paying for a service you are not happy with. You have voiced your concerns and dissatisfaction, and been told to do as you are told or leave. So leave. You owe them absolutely nothing, and your first loyalty should be to your dd and what is best for her.

 

Hope the trial lesson elsewhere goes well.

You know you're absolutely right.  The trail tonight was wonderful, dd loves it and I love it too,  the only downside is for a 1 hour class it was 3.5 hours with travelling time, which isn’t ideal but if we can fully move then maybe the weekend will work better.

18 minutes ago, Dance*is*life said:

As an RAD teacher myself,  I think it's rather unreasonable to make your daughter wait so long just to take an exam.  The exams give the students a goal and maķe them work harder, but I find that working for the exam longer than necessary has a detrimental effect on their progress.   Some children do take longer than others,  but not being in the UK we only have one exam session a year. If a child really isn't ready by then for the exam, we put them up anyway at the end of the year in the hope that they'll catch up.  I very often find that sooner or later they'll be ready for an exam,  and in the meantime their interest and enthusiasm has been  maintained.  Exams can't be compulsory- what if a parent can't afford them?   If the school is being unhelpful I would definitely suggest you look fof an alternative.......

They’re not compulsory which is why it’s so frustrating that they won’t let her move on, I am hoping to take her to a trial tomorrow night for a grade 1 class as I believe continuing in the same class during primary ballet for another year isn’t a good use of her time or my money and I think it will definitely put her off as she’s not been rewarded for the hard work she’s already done and is just expected to wait without explanation from her teacher.  I’ve told her the reasons the teacher gave me but I don’t think she understands why they’re not holding a rad session in November I really feel quite loyal to the school but I don’t feel that is the way the school are behaving and it makes me quite sad that they don’t value part of the school enough to be reasonable about it. 

1 minute ago, poodle said:

 

It's a shame they won't just move your daughter up and I do wonder if they worry that everyone else will want to do the same.  And yes, it's the same at our school that a new joiner might get put in a higher (age appropriate) grade than someone who has been there for 2 years waiting for their exam to be booked in which is frustrating.

 

Are there any other schools that might provide more of what you want as, in my experience, these schools don't change the way they do things?  I have never moved mine because she is so happy there, does a number of different dance genres and has made great friends (as have I).  We are always at dancing doing something or other and when DD does do exams she gets distinctions so staying in the class a bit longer does get her good marks.

There probably is a feeling that if my dd was moved up then others would be asking for the same thing.  It’s such a hard balance as they both like where they dance but the questions are being asked by my dd about why she’s not being allowed to learn more and I have spoken to 2 other schools that have said they’d start her in grade 1 but they’re both a bit further away than our local school which is handy.  I’m just trying to help develop her confidence as she can be quiet and I would hate this to put her off dancing if she becomes bored of the syllabus that she’s said herself she knows well and wants to do more. 

2 hours ago, poodle said:

Hey Moonbeam

 

I think you need to find out a bit more about the dance school.  Some schools push through exams really quickly, offering a number of ballet classes a week and pushing up the more able.  Other schools concentrate more on comps, shows and performance in general.  DD's dance school is a small one and most kids only do 1 ballet class a week until they get to grade 3 then its 2, and they alternate between doing a big show one year and exams the next.

 

It is frustrating being in the same grade for 2 years, especially for the more able dancers, but for the smaller dance schools with a limited number of studios and teachers I think it can be hard fitting everything in.

 

If your DD is enjoying it and has lots of good friends I would not worry too much unless she wants to be a ballerina.  Alternatively, ask her to be moved up to Grade 1 or find a school that is more focussed on getting through the grades.

They do focus a lot on competitions and do a show annually which understand is a lot for a school to cope with. My dd wants to learn more ballet and doesn’t want to repeat the same class she’s already spent a long time in and we did ask if she could move on and were told “we don’t do that here” meaning without the exam she won’t be moved on even though they have a 5 year old that just joined in the primary class and my other dd is 6 and still in pre primary.  I can’t get my head around what they’re doing if you join you get put into age appropriate classes but if you’ve been there you can’t without the exams. 

On 17/09/2019 at 23:44, Legseleven said:

This was 12 years ago now so it was the previous children’s grades syllabus grade 3    and on observing my DD’s older friends in the class, on one occasion along with a qualified RAD teacher friend who was considering moving her DD to the school as she was giving up teaching - she chose not to do so - it was not at all clear that absolutely every child did indeed require at least 18 months if not 2 years in grade 3 as we were all told. There were students who did need additional time, as there are in every grade, but there were also students who had attended all the classes available plus unset classes, who picked up the new work and then the syllabus work quickly and were clearly frustrated at being told that they could not take the exam until they had had at least 18 months of classes and that no individual consideration of individual students’ readiness would happen. The teacher’s later ‘confession’ of her motivation for keeping everyone in the one grade for at least 18 months made me feel that moving DD to a different school was definitely the right decision. 

That really is quite a disturbing “confession” isn’t it.  All children learn at their own pace so to say they all need 18 months is quite unfair on the ones doing extra practice.  I have a class I would like my daughter to try out and we’ll take it from there, she’s not keen as she’s been there for 5 years but I’ve explained this is for her and if she doesn’t like it she doesn’t have to move.  I’m hoping she enjoys the challenge of the grade 1 class as I think she needs to hear she’s doing well just now. 

31 minutes ago, valentina said:

Linda Lowry School of Ballet - teaches to a high standard. Royal Conservatoire of Scotland also does the RAD grades I believe, for children.

Thank you, I’ll have a look at Linda Lowry.

I was really interested to see that the royal conservatoire of Scotland did RAD grades for children, the classes started last week, also they said they prefer if the children have taken the primary exam before commencing grade 1 but given she’s been in the class for a year and a half I’m sure this would be fine. 

1 hour ago, Lisa O`Brien said:

Perhaps if you could tell people roughly which area of the country you are based in? Then people will be able to give you recommendations for schools.

We are just outside Glasgow. 

25 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

I think on here we can sometimes get a bit of a distorted idea of what constitutes normal progress through the grades as most of us have children who are serious dancers and will be quicker. Plus we will have tended, where possible, to seek out teachers and schools where the standard is higher.

So its not always useful to compare what many of our children achieved at a given age with what the typical once a week recreational dancer might do.

I've also got some sympathy with teachers wanting to run their school their way. As a (volunteer admittedly) sports coach  it can be very frustrating to have parents who push to have their children moved up when they are not ready and on rare occasions we have indeed had to suggest to parents that if they are not happy with the way we coach at our club they should look elsewhere. So I can see that perspective.

However.....all that said, I think the timescales the OP is describing are beyond normal. That sounds far too long in one grade to me, especially primary. If the pupil knows the work then they surely need to be moving on and developing, whether they have done the exam or not. If the pupil doesn't know the work after that length of time there is something wrong with the teaching. Either way, that's a red flag to me, as is the poor communication and inflexibility of the teacher. The suggestion to move to another school may not be unreasonable but I would expect there to be dialogue first.

OP, I would move now. This is likely only to get worse with time. Don't worry about the syllabus. Quality of teaching and happy pupils are far more important than the exam board. 

I completely agree with all of your points, i know sometimes children aren’t ready to move.  I’ve never been a pushy parent and have been more than happy to let them progress when the dance school have said it was time but seeing my child at her pre primary exam in a group that were all a year below her and the quality of her dancing made me question it when she wasn’t sitting her primary exam the following March and I was told it would be November as 18 months between exams is how they do it.  I let it go but to find out that’s not happening not because they informed anyone but because my dd came home 2 weeks in a row telling me exam letters had been handed out and she didn’t get one so I asked if she was mistaken and when they’d be out to be told she wasn’t sitting her ballet exam until next March.  I don’t see I have any other choice as I’m not happy with the decision to not hold a RAD exam in November and there is no compromise to be had as they won’t move her up.  My dd is very upset as she can’t fully understand why there isn’t an exam in November and has been getting told she’s moving up in November to find out, not from her teacher but me that that isn’t happening.  I am in the process of making  enquires elsewhere, they have a non core trial on Friday but I still need to find a ballet, tap and modern class for them both.  

31 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

14 and grade 3?! That's ridiculous, and quite frankly absurd. If the teacher can't get them to a sensible grade by that age then he/she is an appalling teacher.

 

I know my dd was pushed along a bit quicker, but she'd taken her grade 7 by then. Average recreatiional students who have been dancing a while should be in grade 5 or 6 at 14, and the very keen ones would probably starting a little pointe work in a vocational grade as well. Most teachers would probably start a 14-year-old complete beginner in grade 4.

 

Around 18 months for a recreational dancer is about right, although many schools only have exam sessions annually so some grades might take a year, others 2. One would normally expect a child of 8 to have already taken grade 1 (or be about to) and starting on grade 2. Not being held back so much that they haven't even taken primary yet.

 

In my view you need to get your dd out of there as soon as possible.

The more and more I think about it we definitely need tonic her or I fear she may want to stop ballet at some point in the not too distant future.  I would like her to continue as long as possible as I believe it’s very good for her even if she never goes on to dance in any other way other than for fun. 

40 minutes ago, The_Red_Shoes said:

Actually, this is perfectly true, and I even overheard people on the RAD teacher training course talking (moaning actually!) about the huge emphasis put on Grade 3 in their course.

When you have younger children who are learning right from the beginning, it may not be obvious,  but the RAD grades are not based on age and the exam grades don't match up with school year groups. Children who start at 5, 6 and 7 will almost certainly be in the class that corresponds to the minimum age for taking that exam. However that very often gets out of synch as they go along and students don't always do one grade per year. Not to mention students who only start ballet at 9,10 or older. From Grade 3 onwards there is usually an age spread of several years within a class. Grade 3 is the level at which many late starters begin taking exams -so those 14 year olds may well have been dancing only for a year or two. Some adults learners start at Grade 3 too!

 

I'd say that you don't need to worry terribly that your daughter will be so behind that she will never get anywhere (my own daughter entered vocational school at 11 having only done up to Grade 2) but you don't want her feeling unstimulated, getting bored and losing enthusiasm.

She really sad about not sitting her exam and I am worried she’ll be put off as you’ve  said under stimulated. 

The 14 year old I mentioned has been dancing at least as long (5 years) as my daughter and probably a lot longer I just can’t comment on how long.  I know the children that start at the school are put into class based on age and one 9 year old that hadn’t danced before  went straight into the grade 2 class when my dd won’t be allowed  into that class until she’s 11 even though she started dancing before 3, it just doesn’t make much sense at all. 

13 minutes ago, Legseleven said:

My apologies, for some reason my post has only just been sent and is now out of date - as you have been told that she may not miss her primary exam and may not move to grade 1 and she has reacted as might be expected to the news that she has to stay in primary for even longer, I think the only option is to move her to a different school. I agree with the advice to try out all of the possible schools, regardless of syllabus and to go with your gut feeling - and that of your girls - as to where they are best suited to progress. Lots of luck x

Thank you, it’s crazy to think that this school keep them at each grade between 18 months and 2 years when most comments I’m receiving are saying it should be a lot quicker.  I think there’s some girls at age 14 just sat their grade 3 but I may be wrong.  It certainly doesn’t seem to pick up at any point down the line so I’ll keep my research going for other schools and see if we can get lots of trials to find a nice school that wants to push her a little bit or at least let her grow xx

3 minutes ago, Fiz said:

A decent school will let you try classes before you decide. I was certain a change was best for our daughters when the teacher who was also the principal told me she couldn’t understand why my youngest daughter hadn’t been put in for her exam and when I saw how engaged she was with the children and they were with her. 

I think they’re going to have some extra busy weeks coming up soon while we try out a few new classes.  How long did it take you to find a new school you were happy with?

37 minutes ago, HopelessMummy said:

I think it's unlikely your dance teacher will accept your DD doing her exam elsewhere. Can I suggest approaching them again and ask whether she can do grade 1 now together with the primary classes? That way, she can learn stuff that is new and also keep reminding herself of the stuff needed for the exam next year. It will mean extra fees of course but a suggestion?  Or alternately, move her. The school should have given you a cogent reason in the first place and to tell you to leave if you're not happy is hardly a dance school worth your effort? 

I was going to approach them again and ask if they would let her do both at the same time as that would at least be a compromise however I’ve just checked the timetable and the classes are at the same time unfortunately. 

I think you are right though, I don’t think they would accept her doing it anywhere else anyway.  

Feel a bit stuck again as the reason we didn't actually move them both last time was given was given the timescales the earliest she would be able to do the exam with a change of school would have been November anyway and we thought we’d be as well just waiting and then making a decision after she’d sat the exam and now we’re in the exact same situation again except I have a very unhappy girl this time that feels like she’s not getting the chance to move on.  I’ll keep looking at the other options and keep speaking to as many teachers and mums as possible to make sure I make the right decision for them both. 

13 minutes ago, ParentTaxi said:

I know that moving to an ISTD school might seem a real waste of the time she has already spent learning the RAD exercises, but the RAD focus on set exercises done with great technique will stand her in good stead wherever she goes. The ISTD approach of unset 'free work' from the very beginning will keep her on her toes and ensure that even if the exercises are not particularly stretching for a while, there's always the variation of the unset work to look forward to. Quality of teaching - and appropriate progression - is more important than exam board. Ask to see recent exam results too - a good school will have mostly Merits and Distinctions.

 

You may also be able to jump a grade or two when you move, as it is likely that the new school will put her into around the right grade for her age, rather than being too fixated on 'not taken that exam yet'

Thank you, that is reassuring to hear.  I told my daughter last night that she wasn’t sitting her exam and if you’d seen the look on her face 😪.  Today brought more questions once she’d thought about it, she asked why there wasn’t a rad exam and I explained again they didn’t have enough numbers and she told me how sad it had made her and how much she was looking forward to the exam and moving into the next class and said that’s her in that class for another year and said again how sad it made her.  Do you happen to know if there’s any way for her to sit the exam in November at another dance school? 

1 hour ago, OnlyDance said:

I understand your fear about putting her forward for an associate scheme. But do remember that at your daughter's young age they will be looking at potential and many schemes only start at age 8 anyway. If distance is an issue, depending where you are, could a monthly or fortnightly scheme be an option? My dd's first associate was monthly, and it was just what she needed at the time to improve her confidence. She now attends a different fortnightly one which works well for us. Glad you're looking into alternative local schools and I hope you'll reach a decision that works well for all the family.

 

That’s a really interesting point a monthly session would be a fabulous start.  I’ll have a look and see if they do a monthly one ☺️ Thank you so much for replying xx

The associates scheme isn’t very close to us and would mean she wouldn’t get to dance as much as she also does ISTD modern and tap.  There are other classes she can attend and we’ve spent a lot of time today looking at them but I do think trialling them before we decide is definitely the best way.  I’m not even sure how confident I would be putting her forward for the associate scheme given how far behind she is, there will be girls already in grade 2 classes at her age.

14 minutes ago, Streetdancer said:

I'm sorry you're in this situation Moonbeam. My DD was in a similar situation waiting to take G2. I felt very loyal to her dance school but in the end they were just holding her back. I moved her and her younger sister and haven't regretted it a single moment. Although as a result she is still 'behind' in the grades for her age (took G3 aged 12 this spring) she has had the opportunity to start the vocational grades, pointe and got accepted into a high quality associates scheme. Both my DDs absolutely love their current dance school.

 

I wish you luck with your decision.

Thank you.  It’s so hard isn’t it when you want to support your local school and you do feel so loyal to them.  The associate schemes look fantastic, that’s a fantastic  achievement!  Well done ☺️

51 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

 

The school should make no money at all from the exam itself. All they are supposed to do is collect the exam fees and pass them on to the examining body.

 

We usually pay more than the exam fee to cover extra prep lessons but I can’t remember how much we pay in comparison to the fee. 

It looks like that to me too and it’s quite sad as we’ve spent 5 years at that school. 

Thanks Fiz, I may have to look at moving them both as my youngest is 6 and hasn’t even sat her pre primary yet despite dancing there for 3 and a half years.  I think we may have to move to ISTD though as all other RAD schools are a bit more of a travelling distance for us unfortunately. 

It’s altogether possible she’ll lose interest Fiz as I’m sure none of the things she’s learning just now are challenging. Can I ask what age she was when you moved her?  

That sounds like the way it should be Parenttaxi, I couldn’t agree more that there is a very rigid approach to everything and I feel really sad that it’s not taking the children as individuals into account.  They’re clumped together in groups and if this exam display is anything like her last one, when she finally gets to sit it that is, then she’ll be one of if not the oldest child sitting primary exam as she’ll be 8 and a half by then.  I just hope she’s still enjoying it by the time that happens, that is if we don’t decide to move her to another school. 

I might see if I can find somewhere that she could sit the exam but I think even that would then mess the class numbers up as everyone seems to move on in groups rather than individually. 

My daughter will be 8 soon so I think she should be moved to the Grade 1 class and is ready to be challenged more too.  Point blank refused to saying they don’t do that there and I think it ultimately boils down to the fact that if my daughter is moved without examination then others will request the same too and that would mean less income for the school but I may be wrong as I don’t know how much income is generated from examinations.  

Update is there’s no budging on the class she’s in and they don’t have enough numbers to have a RAD examination this November.  Now I need to work out if it’s just me being annoyed about it and what’s best for my daughters xx