Florine

4 hours ago, Jane S said:

I would guess they might be referring to the bit inesr the beginning of

Cinderella's sola in act 2 - she's on the left of the stage, with her back to the audience, and she leans back from the waist and maybe looks back over her left shoulder, then straightens up , and then she does it again a few bars later.

 

(But it might be something quite different)

Jeté, relevé, backbend, recover facing upstage OP 

On 10/02/2023 at 06:38, Pas de Quatre said:

There was a RB production in the 1960s shown on TV where the fairies each seemed to enter down a sunbeam. Absolutely magical!

That was the 1968 Frederick Ashton production, set vaguely in the Middle Ages, and featuring his sublime 'awakening pdd'.  

I so agree with this. The score almost suggests they are tip-toeing off a rainbow, and certainly I remember the fairies entry with a kind of radiance directed towards the little princess. Mostly they now do 'just enter' and don't convey (and add to) the sense of wonder (so crucial for Carabosse's to violently smash). Was is Alastair Macaulay who also commented on the stringy line up with double pirouette into attitude, so many out of line and out of sync. 

I so want to love this ballet in every way, but this season it has lost much of its magic, except perhaps for the Vision pdd. That said, Frankie Hayward absolutely cracked Aurora, exquisite balance of artistry, technique, strength and lyricism - sublime. Her Aurora was utterly real and three dimensional, developing over the three acts from girl to monarch-in-waiting. 

4 hours ago, oncnp said:

If you can stand it, a bit more about Krampus and his ilk

 

From easily angered gnomes to child-eating giants, European folklore reveals a darker side to Christmas | Art and design | The Guardian

Thanks so much - this folklore is fascinating and inexorably tied up with so much of Christmas and winter. Much appreciated. 

3 hours ago, Silke H said:

Krampus (plural Krampusse) is a devil-like folkloric figure, accompanying Saint Nicholas.  Given that the Nutcracker story is based on a story by E.T.A. Hofmann, the Germanic relation to Krampus makes good sense

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

St Nicholas' Day is 6 December: in the Netherlands he arrives from Spain (nowadays to different ports). He and his helpers throw sweets for children and it is the day children often receive Christmas presents instead of on Christmas Day (when a small present may be received). St Nicholas' Day is also taken seriously in other European countries. The Krampusse that 'arrives' with St Nicholas are symbolic of St Nicholas's ability to cast out devils.  

Krampusse are also seen in other Swiss/Germanic/Austrian countries during Fasching - a single or series of carnival-like celebrations to cast out evil/devils that occur between Epiphany and Ash Wednesday. 

Wright's production is faithful to the the Germanic origin of the story (I'm not referring to choreogrphy) so as Silke points out, it is absolutely in keeping that St Nicholas should make an appearance throwing sweets, accompanied by Krampusse. 

On 18/12/2022 at 12:35, LinMM said:

Gosh I didn’t realise they used actual Dry Ice on the stage! Though not sure how slippy it is ….probably more lethal for pointe shoe wearers though!! 
And welcome to the Forum!!!

There are a lot of misconceptions about how 'clouds' are created on stage. It is not 'ice' as we conventional know and is not experienced as ice as we conventionally feel. It is a vapour - but I will stop there else I will get bogged down in physics: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_smoke_and_fog

On 16/12/2022 at 04:55, Florine said:

Does anyone else feel a distinct 'absence' of snowflakes in the post lockdown ROH Wright production? They seem to have diminished from 24 to 16. For me this makes a big difference in terms of evoking snow gathering momentum and drifting, and definitely loses a chunk of the magic.  This is the ROH stage that can easily take 24 corps ... There seems to be too much scenery and not enough dancers. Ditto the toy soldier's diminished numbers - disproportionate to the mice. 

I appreciate this is extreme, but for me the transformation pdd between Clara and Hans Peter (with  it's crescendoing, richly emotional score) followed by the snowflakes, initially 'falling' is ones/twos, then gathering momentum to drift with the slowing of the score is the magical climax of the ballet - or was. Dropping 8 snowflakes on a stage that is more than adequate for 24, vitiated something so beautiful for me that I returned my second ticket.  

I wonder who the 'someone' was who thought that fewer snowflakes make the patterns more defined? I can't see it myself. I agree with Fonty - I love a proper snowfall over a light dusting. And with PeterS, prefer not to be reminded of climate change in such an otherwise glorious production. 

On 14/12/2022 at 18:16, RobR said:

😀😀 you can’t have too many 

Sadly, clearly you can .... down to 16 from the lockdown 24 ... 

Does anyone else feel a distinct 'absence' of snowflakes in the post lockdown ROH Wright production? They seem to have diminished from 24 to 16. For me this makes a big difference in terms of evoking snow gathering momentum and drifting, and definitely loses a chunk of the magic.  This is the ROH stage that can easily take 24 corps ... There seems to be too much scenery and not enough dancers. Ditto the toy soldier's diminished numbers - disproportionate to the mice. 

Whether a monarchist or not, it seemed remarkably discourteous of a national ballet company with the Royal Charter, not to play the national anthem at the first night of a brand new production on an historic Platinum Jubilee at the Royal Opera House. 

No matter that there was a technical hitch that delayed curtain up: it was well

publicised that transport would be running until late (even in this forum). This historic event even spawned an extra public holiday. 

The Ukrainian national anthem was played before each show, preceded by a brief word by Kevin O’Hare, for around a week. 

EIiR is emblazoned majestically on those unforgettable crimson curtains The music sheets has been seen;  most other West End theatres  honoured Her Majesty with far less affiliation, so what informed what seemed like something bordering on indifference? 

4 hours ago, TomS said:

I saw some even threw in a double before entering into the usual 16 bars… It was the case for the first few performances I saw, so I initially wowed thinking that’s the RB style, but realised later not everyone does it. Now I think dancers are allowed to make their own fouetté unlike other parts, and that makes this part even more special. 

A double pirouette pushing off from two feet onto the supporting leg (the illusion of throwing in a double at the start) is a clever way to generate initial speed to propel momentum for the actual fouettés .... 

In the flurry of fouetté debate, I omitted to thank you all for your welcome to the forum 🙂 

On 28/03/2022 at 18:46, Jan McNulty said:

 

I'm not a teacher like you PdQ but you have expressed very eloquently what I think so thank you.

 

I have a personal preference for single fouettés done in time with the music - I think they look far more effective.  There is only one dancer I have seen who can whip them out so fast that the doubles and triples are also in time with the music (and I have seen even her have an off-night).

 

I've always assumed that when the music changes it gives the conductor a chance to finish early if the dancer does so that it still looks natural but that wouldn't work if the dancer tries to keep going.

 

Am I correct in thinking that if more than one turn is done it is technically not a fouetté?

Technically you are right Jan: We have all been talking about a double fouetté as a double TURN on the supporting leg, not a double extension and ronde de jambe of the leg en l'air. 

On 28/03/2022 at 21:37, Scheherezade said:

Me too, Jan. They look far more effective and the inherent musicality ups the overall satisfaction. 

I also agree, but  add that for gifted turners who are aware of the musicality and consequences of getting behind, a single double ever fourth fouetté is as impressive visually as doubles, or randomly mixed doubles, throughout.

The uniformity of every fourth fouetté as a double turn is visually contrasting and therefore pleasing to the eye. It also allows time for 'catch up'. But I'd rather well executed singles throughout, performed with the intense single minded objective of hypnotising Siegried ... 

On 28/03/2022 at 15:01, Pas de Quatre said:

Frequently, problems with the fouettés are caused by not respecting the beat of the music.  It used to be that 32 single fouettés were done completely in time with the counts of the music.  Then people started throwing in the odd double turn (or even triple) without coming down.  A double takes longer than a single turn, but not as long as two turns with the plié in between, so the dancer is then across the music and often doesn't seem to have planned how many turns to fit in for each section, whether counting bars or musical phrase (8 bars) so eventually they lose their way and the timing becomes more and more random which also seems to affect balance and positioning! 

Spot on, Pas de Quatre! As timing becomes more random, at some level there is the inherent need to 'speed up'. But once behind the beat, the only way to speed up is actually to slow down, and revert to singles to recover the timing (or something else entirely as has been so helpfully explored and discussed above).

Once timing has gone and speed accelerates, it only takes a tiny loss of alignment or balance (or loss of spot), to begin to fall out of balance and/or positioning. Simple biomechanics and anatomy.

Doubles (even trebles) may be thrilling, but they need a very FAST turner, confident of timing. If you think back to Rojo (a consummate turner) she would always revert to a 'single-single' if ever she was a fraction behind time. That way she maintained momentum, balance and position.

A sympathetic and observant conductor also comes into it ... 

On 26/03/2022 at 09:10, Odyssey said:

I’d add that it always surprises me when comments are made that a dancer achieved say 25 fouettés in the same breath as stating that they do not consider this technical aspect should be important in indicating a dancer’s ability to perform the role of Odile . So why do they start counting?

Anyone who has repeatedly done or performed 32 fouetté's to the Odile or Minkus music (or equivalent), does not need to start counting to know how many are achieved. Anyone very familiar with the music, even without the fouettés, would also probably be able to state the number with some accuracy. 

So it's not a matter of starting to count: it's arguably an innate performance understanding in the context of an entire interpretation that can sometimes contribute, in a different way, to a rounded/informed commentary of a dancer's ability to portray Odile (as argued in my previous post). 

That's not intended as criticism or any sort of 'put down', just to explain that it's not necessarily a matter of 'starting to count'. 

In the 2017/18 SL run, Osipova omitted the act 3 fouettés in favour of piqué turns in all her shows. 

Changing the subject: the ghost of Liam Scarlett will forever hover over this production for me. I am so glad he kept the Ashton Neapolitan pdd, one in which he was often cast and memorably performed. In the wake of all that has gone, it is a kind of positive valediction to him. 

1 hour ago, capybara said:

All three, in common with Lauren Cuthbertson I believe, trained at the RBS’s White Lodge before going to the Upper School whereas their contemporary South American and Japanese Principals grew up under a different regime where possibly more emphasis is placed on technical prowess and, indeed, on competition entry where fouettés are very much in evidence.

You've summed it up in a nutshell 🙂 

4 hours ago, JennyTaylor said:

What a fascinating discussion. Personally, I find the Rose Adagio far more nerve wracking, possibly because it goes on for far longer and there is far more propensity for mistakes. I saw both Anna-Rose and Frankie's debuts in this role and they were both tear jerkingly wonderful.  I saw Anna-Rose in rehearsal for Swan Lake and there were no mishaps. I was nervous for Frankie yesterday as I had read reviews of her first performance but it was all going so well in up to that point. For me, her less than perfect execution didn't really detract from the whole performance because it had so much depth in characterisation and chemistry with Will Bracewell, it didn't seem so important. Will was magnificent in his execution - though still different from Vadim and Cesar Corrales. He held one arabesque for so long, there were gasps from the audience. This was so in time with the music but so different from anyone else that it was breath-taking.  Beautiful, I suppose.  It just shows that you don't have to do exactly the same "showy" steps to get a reaction.  I also don't think of Francesca as a "showy" dancer. Is that what is required to play Odile successfully -  discuss -  but I don't think so really?  Of course, compared the Marianela's single, double and treble turns, all perfectly in time with the music, she fell short, but this was only her 2nd performance in the role. 

 

I was very curious with one comment on the Forum about Yasmine, Frankie and Anna-Rose all having graduated via Royal Lodge. What an interesting thought.  Surely any budding ballerina dreams of and practices these fouettés from the year dot?

13 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

I agree that performances should not be judged to stand or fall by the things but I've now seen three debutante or near-debutante dancers struggle with the fouettés in this production: Hayward, O'Sullivan and back in 2018 on her debut Naghdi.

 

Genuine question: is it a coincidence that they all came from White Lodge?

With you all the way Jenny, beautifully articulated (see above) and very much in agreement. Regards all three recent debutantes coming from WL: 

I don't remember Naghdi struggling with the fouettés in 2018. WL/RBS has its own training syllabus that is much more nuanced and, I'd argue, balanced, than many national schools globally. Of course fouetté's are part of it, but they aren't a focus. 

Some dancers are natural turners, some have natural elevation etc. And yes, in some schools the focus is on fireworks like fouetté's. It is very rare for all aspects of training, interpretation and physiology to come together for every single (for the purpose of this debate let's say) 'classic'. 

As has been noted, pressure comes into it; having a bad day comes into it. Getting behind the music by throwing in a double on on the fourth (as O'Sullivan on her swan debut) and subsequently trying to catch up with momentum throwing you off balance (think of a top) comes into it. Hayward had the weight of debut expectation just before lockdowns to deal with on top of newly awakened expectations, but will never be a 'natural' turner in the way she is a natural Ashtonian/MacMillan interpreter. 

Ospiova is a natural turner, but delicate choreography can leave her feet looking buttery, and her arms are characteristically Russian even now. 

There isn't a 'right' or 'wrong': we all prefer different things. Of course, when the fouetté's are pulled off  - like Aurora's balances - they are noteworthy and additive, but (as already stated in my forum debut) for me, they are not the sum of a performance parts. 

With regard to counting the fouetté's, if you've done them many times and know the music, there probably isn't any need to count? 

I am puzzled by such focus on the fouettés: of course they can be spectacular, but if it's a few fireworks you want, go to instagram to see hundreds of dancers showing off 32+ triple fouettés and crotch extensions, dotted around in studios all over the world.

Any ballerina or danseur is is the sum of technique, musicality and artistry throughout the show, not the single firework. Anna Rose fell out of hers towards the end yesterday afternoon reverting to piqué turns, Frankie stoically got through to just over 25 last night, but does that REALLY matter in the context of outstanding performances?

I have never been a fan of Swan Lake, but for the first time EVER, the tender lyricism; luscious arms; gorgeously precise technique (Ivanov merging with Ashton); overall control, and sense of wonderment at Siegfied's love, manifest in Frankie's act 2 swan, coupled with William Bracewell's sublime line, wonderful elevation, gracefully strong presence and superb chemistry with Frankie, left me in tears. 

Frankie's nonchalant sexiness in act 3 remained linked to Von Rothbart (skilfully developed as a three dimensional character by Gary Avis, seamlessly joining apparently disparate appearances not least through bird-like arm/hand movements - the only Von R to devote such thoughtfulness) making the dramatic theft of the crown belong to them both. William's solo shone, the epitope of princely strength and grace. 

The final act belonged to all three - echoes back to act 3 when Siegfried held out his arm to Odette as Von R had held his arm to Odile: Odette, torn and protected by her swans, Siegfried's unwitting betrayal and begging for forgiveness powerfully poignant, Von R's reminders to Siegfried of his betrayal increasingly desperate. Frankie's gently tender forgiveness extending beyond betrayal ... 

Anna Rose and Marcie Sambé were altogether different, as would be expected: Anna Rose's hallmark soubrette style was softened and lyrical, Marcie's Siegfried explosive and flamboyant, but for me, although both were wonderful, both still lack the depth and maturity of Frankie and Bracewell's sublime final show of this run. I hope the latter is a partnership we will be privileged to see develop in many roles: their shared grace/lyricism; beautiful elevation and footwork, and growing chemistry is just asking to be nourished.