FredF

17 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

I so wish people would stop using the phrase ‘the big 3’ Or the ‘big 4’ in relation to vocational schools....

It is continuing a ‘class system’ which is not helpful for children, parents or any of the very many & varied vocational dance schools themselves. People may choose schools for a variety of reasons which could be geography, finance, peer groups etc..... it is a personal & individual thing for each family & let us all respect this. 

Sorry Peanut68,

I was not saying for any other reason than, the standard of the dance was just as good as the top 3, given the school size and financial funds in comparison. Parents and children may overlook schools like Moorland as it is not as well known as the others. When we were looking at schools there were only 3 offered at the time, and it's positive that there are other schools that can produce such high standards, which is brilliant to see. I do agree with you and would love to see less on the big 3 and more on other schools in the future, unfortunately in life there are always bench marks to achieve and be compared to...

I also watched the show which was truly inspiring. The standard of dance from a relatively small (compared to the big 3) school was extremely high. The children's expressions and dance passion and sheer love of ballet was clearly visible. The teaching staff must be so proud of their students.

Anyone thinking of ballet training should certainly add this school to their audition list. 

On 11/04/2019 at 18:13, LinMM said:

Is it because of the YAGP finals coming up.next week?

And one ex student has made the finals after leaving the school?

With the New York Youth America Grand Prix finals upcoming next week, it’s good to see a UK boy in the male soloist finals. Joshua Fickling (15) is competing in the senior men’s soloist finals which is a brilliant opportunity, he is a student of Moorland International Ballet Academy. 

Good luck to him, and any other UK students who may be dancing. 

5 hours ago, valentina said:

Firstly, there are way less than 18 female students in the class.

Secondly, as posters have already described, nothing is straightforward in the dance world, from yr7 ( or before) and through that uncertainty and upheaval  comes strength, persistence, creativity and experience, all of which you will need in bucketloads if you are to eventually be part of a company. Not being accepted to upper school as a natural progression may be a confidence crusher to begin with, but over the long term it can be a blessing and give you the extra experience you need. Finding new schools/ teachers who motivate you more and see different qualities and potential in you and enable you to push yourself onwards and upwards, can lead to a more creative and mature dancer.

As I said my figures are unconfirmed (some years are close to that number),  and I agree on your points. It was more of a point of if there was anyway in comparison between schools. If one school had a retention percentage much higher and still produced good dancers than another would this be a better school? WL does have a advantage as a "Brand Name" but its a shame there is not a independent process to check that the standard is deserved. A proper independent league table of dance schools may make interesting reading! A OFSTEAD of the dance schools would help a lot of people and probably schools who don't have huge financial backing but do have great teachers and passion.

So based on (unconfirmed and maths not my greatest subject) is this a fair comment?

In the girls if there are approx 18 students and from that about 4-5 have made it to Upper School that's about a 27% chance of making the cut. From these 4-5 I think only 2 have been there since Y7 which makes only 11% chance of your DC making the cut.

I wonder how this compares to the other schools which have Upper Schools?

If you are a new parent entering y7 with this information would you still send you DC to this school knowing the limited progression rate or would you opt for a school that you know your DC would have a better chance of going through the school years? 

17 hours ago, KeepDancing!! said:

 

Yes, it seems totally relevant. Basically 99% of the students taken into WL at Y7 entry are JAs, (excepting international applicants). Therefore these are the students selected by RBS as most appropriate for their style of training at that point.

 

If those students are then trained by RBS at White Lodge and or the Upper school but are not making it through to the final year of Upper school training (where they would be denoted with an * in the programme) what has happened in the meantime?

 

Was it that the original selection process, which deemed them the most appropriate for their training, was wide of the mark?

Was it that the training the original selectees received over their time at the school resulted in them no longer being appropriate for the final year of the school?

Something else?

 

I agree with you KeepDancing!! and on the "something else"....

So today I have my “cynical” hat on.

I would probably say it comes down to money and the brand name of the Royal Ballet School.

Say for example if your child was lucky to be offered a place for y7 at WL, Elmhurst & Tring Park (the assumed top 3 vocational schools in the UK) and as parents you come from a non ballet background which school would you send your child to? I would imagine at 9/10 would choose WL due to the brand name of the Royal Ballet School being regarded as the best in the world. However is it? Clearly the Upper School is fabulous and does feed into the company but these students have been cherry picked from all over the world at the age of 16 to go into Upper School and have not necessarily come from WL which has been discussed in previous posts.

Question: does this make WL irrelevant as part of the Royal Ballet company structure/group? Is it just acting as funding for whole group but benefits Upper School students most. Could it survive or have the same reputation if it was called “Richmond Ballet School”?

Question, if you could somehow compare just the UK lower schools (WL, Elmhurst, Tring…) for students entering y7 and remaining to their upper schools who would come out on top?

Question: On the funding side of things, if there was no grants (MDS) to send your children to ballet schools and you had to make the decision and fund yourself, looking at the stats (especially WL) of only a very small margin making it through the school would you choose to send your child to that school? Which then raises the question that does the school deserve to get funded places?

Maybe this would be good for another topic on how schools are awarded MDS places, how they are monitored to make sure the funding is used to benefit the children and not other aspects of the school.

I also would be interested to know, if this just a UK thing, how this compares to schools for example in Paris or America do they have more success in students starting at the very beginning going through to the company?

I will now remove my “cynical” hat

1 hour ago, Nicola H said:

 whether someone is an associate or not is irrelevant  to WL to  RBS  Upper school  ,  especially as someone who is an MA  is  by the very nature of it not at WL ... ?

Sorry whats a "MA", not up to date on all these abbreviations?

On 30/07/2018 at 00:08, Wigglybunny said:

A related observation from the RBS programme at the Holland Park performances this year was the percentage of students who were JAs/MAs. Each student from yr7-US were listed by school year in the programme and if they were a JA/MA they had an asterisk next to their name. For year 7/8 it was the case for the majority, by yr 10/11 it was about half. In the first year of US it was about a third and by the third year there were no asterisks. It made me a bit sad, but is a wholy unscientific observation! 

So if this is the case, does that mean that White Lodge is failing in its teaching of these students in the lower school, not being able to get them to the required level compared to international schools?

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

So sorry to hear about these troubles. Speaking as a fairly recently departed - and now somewhat jaded and cynical - parent, I'm sorry to say that this situation is not all that uncommon, and you would find much the same occurring in vocational training everywhere. Some will sail tharough the whole thing and will have nothing but praise for the school, the training and the staff. Others, training there at exactly the same time and in the same class, will tell the opposite story.

 

The favourites (and occasionally also the moneybags overseas ones) get all the attention, all the extra coaching, all the support they could possibly need if they get injured or are suffering emotional difficulties; they are encouraged to enter competitions, they are handed principal roles in school shows, and are given opportunities galore.

 

The middling also-rans are pretty much ignored and are treated as cash cows, and corps fillers for performances. The ones who fall behind (for whatever reason) don't get the extra support and coaching they would benefit from, and really need and deserve. They are metaphorically thrown on the scrap heap and pretty much written off from then on.

 

There seems to be a culture among some staff of... well... not institutionalised bullying as such, but more of an attitude that the professional dance world is brutal, and these students need toughening up if they are going to succeed. It is a case of survival of the fittest, and it is the school's job to weed out the ones who are going to break, either physically or mentally. Some of the students are treated appallingly, yet they are afraid to rock the boat, to complain or make any kind of fuss, in case it jeopardises their position, either to continue training at the school, or that word will get out that they are 'difficult' and they will never get a job. The ballet world is a very small one. Nobody wants to stick their head above the parapet. They have too much to lose. And we are talking about young people under the age of 18 here, who may be living far away from home for the first time, and have no-one to turn to when they need help.

 

As parents we put our trust in these schools to do their best to nurture our young dancers, and we put our faith in the belief that the schools will take care of them and have due regard for their welfare and well-being.

 

I can't tell you how much it hurts to have that trust betrayed, and to have your young dancer's love of dance destroyed, and their aspirations and future career ruined. 

Totally agree with ballet4taxi, and I think these schools forget that, they are a school not a company, and need to teach and encourage these children. 

It was a no for ours DS for a year 10 place. 

8 hours ago, Wollysocks said:

Has anyone recived an email explaining   that there are no beds (boarding places ) for Y10 boys. 

But still welcome to audition and be placed on a wziting list if successful.

 

 

Yes we have had the same letter for the yr10 boys. He is going to do it for experience and hope a place may become  available! However how long could the waiting list be if they were offered? 

Thanks Amanda

Does anyone have any first hand experience of Brussels International Ballet School?

Does anyone know of any UK students who have recently been there or are there currently, just looking at options for DC (yr 10) starting this September for the full time course. Any information would be really helpful.

Thanks.

https://www.brusselsintballet.org

Hi,  

Does anyone have any thoughts / experience on full time ballet training at Moorland school, it has some mentions on this forum but they do seem to be only about summer school courses or are a few years old. I know it’s a small school but can it train to the standard as Elmhurst or Tring ?

Thanks