kinola67

Sorry have I misunderstood something here ....but is de Montford referring to Leicester?? Or some other place?

 

As Leicester is easier to get to from Edinburgh than any of the other ones you have mentioned kinola 67

Yes De Montford is in Leicester but by train it is two or sometimes one connection from Edinburgh so although geographically closer the train journey is a bit of nightmare. I think you can fly to East Midlands but the journey from there is another bus and as Edinburgh airport has expanded so rapidly recently the check in time is really long...basically meaning trains to London are the quickest and easiest. We did like De Montford though!

Hi, I'm probably a tad late jumping into this thread but thought I would just add my experiences to the mix. 

 

My DD considered both MT colleges and Uni's to study Dance, when applying 4 years ago (just graduated). 

 

The most noticeable difference between MT colleges/vocational schools compared to Uni courses is that there are far less hours of studio time for a Uni student. Any additional studio time comes at the students own expense and time, which would not be factored into by tutors and the work demands of the course/degree signed up for.

 

The Uni's also appear to lack the contacts within the industry and agents if your DC is considering the performing route into the industry. However, the Uni's do appear to prepare their students for working as a teacher and/or the business side of dancing. It all boils down to what career path you wish to follow. 

 

Please don't be concerned about changing your mind as you continue your studying. I know of one girl who only completed 6 months at a reputable MT college, disliked it so much, went to an open audition and has worked continuously for the same dance company for 5 years. With no help from anyone. 

 

Have you considered a course that offers 2 degrees (can't remember the official word for it). eg Geography as the main degree and an additional course in Dance. 

 

Manchester offer this type of degree I believe. It allows the student to study a very generic subject widely accepted in many careers but with the additional qualification to teach Dance of whatever genre is preferred. 

 

A happy mix of the two. A current pupil at my DD's Ballet School is in that process at the moment. It appears to be an excellent compromise for those that love dance but may not want to follow only the performing route but want to open up their employ-ability and keep their options open for later on.

 

Good Luck, it's not easy and as parents we all would love to have that crystal ball to see into the future to help us help our children make the right decision. It's not easy but worth the research and throw in as many options as possible to consider. 

 

PS  Not too sure if you are now running out of time for Uni applications for September 2017. That can only be answered by making calls to the individual Uni's as the official dates may be close but if there have been less uptake for some courses they may extend the application dates for an individual.  

Thanks very much for getting back to me, my DD has an offer from the four Uni's now, so that's the stage we are at for starting in Sept. I think she is happy with the choice of Uni over vocational, but  wants to be able to dance as much as possible whilst doing her course! so it's just trying to fathom out which of the four would be the best for 1. dance classes per day included within the course 2. easiest to top up with either private classes (cost?) or dance clubs/societies and 3. one that provides a resonable expectation of a choice of work destinations including hopefully performing as well as admin/teaching/management. Surrey do major/minor degrees but it was difficult to fathom out how popular they were when we visited this week, but yes I agree they seem to be a good combination for those wanting the degree security but also to continue dancing. Surrey do a placement year which gets the students working (not earning though) and they pride themselves in the fact that many of the students get jobs at the end of their course with their placement firms. The placements however as admin roles, so no dancing involved which means a year of less dancing unless one can afford to pay for top up. My DD just didn't like that idea. I don't know if I am now over analysing it all! but I guess as researching it all is much easier these days with the websites etc I feel we must take adavantage of it! I'm sure my mother had no idea what my Uni was like and only saw me in the holidays and as long as I phoned once a week, we were all happy!

Agree with others - take a very close look at the career paths of alumni, check out the faculty and see who the teachers are (and where they trained), and what their career was before becoming a university teacher. Ideally you want people who have actually danced/worked professionally in the genres/areas you are interested in.

 

And (after having read a thread from another poster on this forum who was disappointed in the number of hours of dance training), find out as much as you can about how much actual dance training from a teacher you have in the studio, as apposed to academic work and independent study.

Great advice, thank you I will spend some more time looking at the teachers backgrounds, so far it seems to be about 1.5/2hrs dancing per day and the rest is your own time to do your academic work and top up with other dance, fitness, clubs etc

There's a lot of good advice about non-conservatoire courses - not so much specific content, but what you might expect from them - on another thread which you'll find if you click on the "university" tag. 

 

The thing to remember is that degree courses in Dance outside of the conservatoires are not second-best conservatoires, and if you go into one of the courses thinking like that, you'll be frustrated. And people like me who teach you, will also be frustrated with you!

 

Degree courses at places like Plymouth, De Montfort, Surrey, Roehampton offer arts degrees with a full range of critical and contextual studies. The qualification is broader than the degree courses in conservatoires, and equips you to do things that degree courses in conservatoires don't focus so much on. And vice versa. Neither kind of course is better or worse.

 

It is still possible to have a career in dance with a degree from, say Roehampton, but it might be a different kind of career from that which you'd have with a degree from London Contemporary at The Place.

 

But I would still recommend (as I did on the other thread) if the desire & dream is to dance at the standard of a conservatoire course, but you're not at that standard to get into conservatoires straight out of post-16 education, there is little to be lost in taking a gap year which you set up as an intensive training year. Part-time work, plus daily classes, or even two daily classes. Then audition again!

 

This would actually model what life is likely to be like in the immediate post-graduation years. 

Thanks for getting back to me, we are not looking at conservatoires as she realises that she would not be able to handle all day every day dancing, she'd like to do at least the same as she is now which I think she will be able to cover with what they do on the Uni courses and add to that with a dance society and/or private classes. We did go to visit the conservatoire in Glasgow just to see what it was like and realised that unless you go straight after 4th year (so age 15/16 in Scotland) you are already getting a bit too old. It was obviously very intensive and as they are quite young, it's really abit more like being at school in terms of social life etc

I think we both realise that she wants to experience student life in all it's forms so will be making full use of the student lifestyel - if she could only decide on which one to pick! so I'm really just looking for anyone that has experiences at those Unis if possible. Where do you teach?

I suppose the other issue is what she may want to do after and graduate destinations?

Yes she want to carry on with dancing but is under no illusion and realises that if she wants to be in reasonably good paid employment when she's older (like my age!) she needs to be able to work on the admin/teaching/management side. So we're looking to see which one we might reasonably expect to offer a range of 'positive destinations' as our school likes to call it! She'd like to do some performing and hopefully she will get quite a bit of that if the right Uni has the right mix of classes, dance societies and the like. Fingers crossed!

Takes me back. Roehampton used to do a fair amount of ballet. Middlesex and De mont fort were mainly contemporary. Most universities have dance societies which offer additional classes. Which one does she like the most? What facilities do they have? Accommodation/clubs/library etc are all other things to consider.

I think she liked Roehampton, I didn't see that one but looking at their website they do seem to have a good mix of styles and a good mix of work destinations on graduation, it's fairly small too compared to say Surrey - which seems huge, so that might be a good thing moving such a long way from home. I think they have just built a new library. De Montford was great -  just too complicated a journey to get there from Edinburgh!

Thanks all for getting back to me, it's been so mind boggling - yes we maybe just have to say things will work out fine if she goes with the right attitude. I think it would be possible to top up at all the courses, just depends on how much that costs (on top of EVERYTHING! else), Surrey seem to have good dance society group and as they are part of the GSA I think you can pay per term to do other classes such as tap/jazz etc

Surrey also do a placement year which has confused us a bit, almost all the students will do this in 3rd year and it does sound good but as far as we can tell the placements are mainly admin so no dancing involved, which would mean not only another year of fees/accomodation but a year not dancing as much (unless she has time and money to top up). I am assuming a placement year is not the be all and end all but they way they described it (of course) was that as so many graduates do not get paid jobs when they finish uni, the ones that have done the placement year are much more likely to get into paid work as they have effectively already done their unpaid work in 3rd year. But I'm sure the other uni's wouldn't necessarily agree with that!!

I will check out the university tagging - thank you and no we can't fly but will be on the train. About 7 hours door to door for Surrey, bit less obviously for London.

Just hope I don't have to go through it all again with the next DD!

Hello everyone, I previously posted about finding out about Uni dance degrees, we have finally got to the stage where we have seen four Uni's, Middlesex, Roehampton, De Montford and Surrey. My daughter has offers from the first three and we only saw Surrey yesterday so we'll see what they say. It's hard to choose which one! I think De Montford is out due to it's location and travel time from Edinburgh where we live.

Has anyone else been to these audition days? and if so what did you think?

I think my DD is having a crisis of confidence and wondering whether there will be enough actual dance to safisfy her but on reading other threads about this I think there are ways to top up if she wants to, it's just being practical about finding extra classes etc

Has anyone got advice for a tired old mum who has has enough of train journeys for the time being!

I'm giving dupont a call tomorrow as have been recommended them on a number of occassions now! 

 

is your daughter studying dance here too?

Hi there, new to this thread, my oldest daughter is leaving school next year and DMU is on her list to apply for - how are you finding it? it looks amazing from the details on line!

Thanks everyone for your replies, we have narrowed down our choices I think Uni wise to Surrey, De Montford, Roehampton and Middlesex London. Annoyingly De Montford although nearer geographically takes longer to get to and costs more on the train. We are only considering 'down south' for dance degrees as the choice is better than in Scotland, so if DD wasn't doing dance at Uni we'd definitley be going to a Scottish Uni as the fees are free! Also looking at Trinity Laban, NSCD and Glasgow Conservatoire... will let you all know how it goes! Good luck to all those making choices for next year!

Yes the above is right, it seems (from my trawling) that many students will do an HND to give them a good basis for either going on to get work or completing a degree at the same place of study or elsewhere, assuming it has to be in a related field. In Scotland, we don't do A levels (not at state schools anyway) but we do Highers in 5th year and Advanced Highers in 6th year. Many of our honours degrees are 4 years and tuition is free for those living in Scotland (that's why it's such a big decision for us to consider going down south!) HND is a more advanced qualification than both Highers and A Levels so if your DD got that, she could then decide what to do next, but yes if 2 years of funding were used up at HND level at one college/uni, then there might only be funding for one more year if the subject of study is only a 3 year course - which most of the dance related ones seem to be. I think!! Here's me thinking once we got the exam results everything would be easy and fall into place - hehe. You're right, they are thinking in the here and now, we are thinking forward to the mortgage/children/life. Good luck with your research!

Hi Kinola67, 

 

A couple of things, a fellow student at my DD dance student is preparing to apply to Uni's for a joint degree. Not sure which uni but it's for geography and dance. The culmination of which will give her sufficient degree to be teach both academic and dance as subjects. Manchester was mentioned.

 

After research for my eldest UNI courses do not offer as much studio time as a performing arts college or ballet school. It's purely down to personal preference.

 

The Conservatoire of Scotland in Glasgow looked amazing.

 

As you come from Scotland I'm hoping that you may be able to answer some questions regarding the educational qualifications.  

 

HND - Is it the Scottish equivalent to English A Levels and with that qualification recognised for Uni entry? I'm a tad confused but can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for.  Ballet West offer HND for the first 2 years of the 3 yr course. And, just like you I'm trying to research as much as possible for the "just in case" scenario. Incase of injury, change of personal plans or changes beyond their control in the future. Our darlings ( we were like them at their age) only look at the here and now and now necessarily 5 years down the line and beyond.  

 

Thank you. 

Hi thanks for getting back to me, yes Glasgow looks great, we are going to the open day to find out more, I don't think it's as ballet based as we thought it was which would suit my DD but we'll see what they say. A joint degree was something I thought of ages ago but as they are relatively new in the UK (for dance anyway) it's hard to know what graduates are doing later on, where do they end up I wonder?

HND is done after school so like the first and second year of Uni, then folk if they want to go onto to the 3rd/4th year to do the BA or BSc, which could be done at a different Uni I'm assuming. Ballet West is mentioned above - you could ask about the entry requirements. My DD did a summer school there and loved it!

A rather simple way to assess the type of dance degree/course is whether entry is by audition, or by A levels/UCAS points.  If the former the standard of classes will be higher, if the latter, the focus will be more theoretical.

Thanks for getting back to me, yes I noticed last night whilst trawling the internet, some youtube videos of stuents talking about their auditions for Uni, so guessing it's not as easy to get into some as others, not like applying for a regular course based on points only.

It might be worth your DD looking at Ballet West in Taynuilt. Though it has a very strong ballet focus their contemporary training is excellent too. My DD who has always been a classical ballet dancer before is now in her third year at Ballet West and has now decided she really wants to persue contemporary when she graduates. In her words "ballet is lovely but I love the fact that you can express very different things in contemporary". She loves the choreography too. Plus, now this is a real shock, she actually has stepped out of her comfort zone into commercial jazz dance as well (I never thought I would see the day!). So there are lots of opportunities for different types of dance and it is working to a degree! Please PM me if you have specific questions.

 

Dramascientist

Hi thanks so much for getting back to me, she has done a summer school at Ballet West and did love it but it's too remote for her. I would love it I have to say but she is a city girl at heart! That's good that your DD has discovered her inner dancing passions - if she has a talent for choreography that will be an important asset, my DD loves that side of things and I think it's something that could keep her going in future employment!

Many of the Dance degrees at universities (as opposed to Conservatoires which offer degrees) may not give enough training for a dance career at the very top of the profession. I tend only to know of the English situation. As far as I know the only thing near the mix your DD might like is Theatre Studies at Glasgow, where her dance background could be transferred to a broader sense of performance (eg physical theatre - think DV8 or Vincent Dance, or Frantic Assembly - all of these on English A Level syllabi, I think).

 

But it sounds as though she's more interested in musical theatre? LIPA, Mountview, might be the options there. At conservatoires such as Laban, The Place, or Northern [English!] Contemporary school, she may find the focus on contemporary dance quite different: it's not commercial dance, which a lot of teens think is "modern" or "contemporary" dance!

 

As an example - I've just started teaching a new module where I introduce a number of performance concepts via some pretty basic contemporary dance stuff based on release technique, Horton & graham (that just reflects the stuff I know & have learnt over the years - what's in my body!). It wasn't a dance class as such, but a way of getting them focused & centred & thinking about some performance principles for some text-based work. But I was very surprised that even those who said they had a dance background found the simple stuff quite unfamiliar - I think they had a background in commercial or jazz dance. Very different.

 

So, there may be QUITE a difference between advanced ie University level dance studies and what she's done in a private ballet school since a small child. Contemporary dance is far more linked to experimental theatre, live art, and performance art 

 

A possibility would be to look at performing arts university courses: Queen Margaret's in Edinburgh used to have an interesting one (at least when I did a QAA monitoring a decade ago!). Glasgow's is excellent, and has a strong - world-leading really - tradition of Live Art and Performance Art. Dance comes into this sort of performance work, but not in the way most teenaged jazz dancers might understand it! But a good Theatre Studies/Drama degree with a fair degree of focus on experimental or live art (Lancaster is another one - excellent programme) will allow a student with a dance background to use that dance training in exploring contemporary experimental performance more generally.

 

Surrey, Roehampton & Plymouth (and to a lesser extent, Falmouth) offer good all round dance degrees, again with a focus on contemporary and  ballet training (but not jazz/musical theatre as far as I know) although I wouldn't think they aim to turn out dancers working in companies such as Richard Alston, or Rambert etc. But a lot of graduates from these universities will find dance-related jobs - for example, have a look at the work of dancers in community-based Dance Agencies (not theatrical agencies which get performers work!), such as Ludus in Lancaster, DanceXchange in Birmingham, the fantastic agency in Newcastle: Dance City.  General useful information here:  http://www.onedanceuk.org/

One Dance UK (used to be DanceUK!)

 

Also, your DD might do an entirely unrelated course in a city where there is good private dance teaching. There are various threads in here on that, to help us all find good studios for adults.

 

Hope this helps!

Thanks very much indeed for this - yes it does help. DD is not a singer (I blame the husband for that!) and shies away from acting parts so really we are looking at dance as the main passion. I can understand how odd it seems for the youngsters not to know what contemporary really means in terms of expressing their dance, I would say the dance school she has been at, although known for ballet mainly, does try to incorporate contemporary style into shows etc DD has also done a really good course with another company (can't remember the name!) over two years - which was more along the contemporary route, the first time I saw her perform this I was quite amazed...it really did look so different. When we went to 'move it' in London we spoke to the contemporary schools which was interesting and came away thinking yes that's what she wanted to do. But her dance school changed her mind by saying you need to cover all bases to start with and try for performing arts schools. But we have come right round to thinking that a degree either in contemporary or in a dance related subject would best suit her talents and good grades (you can imagine it is me who is thinking about the grades!), it also means she can diversify more easily if it all goes belly up after first year. So at the moment (of course it could change any time!) we are narrowing it down to those choices which means applying through UCAS to Unis and to Laban/Glasgow/Leeds. We also have to take in practical matters such as travel and accomodation. I found Surrey by accident when trawling the internet, it looks great as there are a few joint honours courses which might be of interest, I will look at Roehampton too. I love the south west but Plymouth will be too far!

Or maybe HNC/HND dance at college then onto degree later? I know lots of people who've done that, although definitely performer careers. You'd need to check what degree the HND could be carried forward into

Hi, thanks for getting back to me, there is Edinburgh College (which was 3 colleges which have now merged) that does a dance degree but it seems to be a very roundabout way of getting there, I think you go to a dance school for year 1, spend 2 years at the college doing the HND then a final year to get the BA. Yes that would be the cheaper option! but my DD doesn't want to stay in Edinburgh, she wants to experience city living elsewhere (of course) and doesn't want to live at home either (can't blame her!!) Edinburgh University does have what looks like a great MA course for graduates - that would be a great choice for getting a teaching qualification later on, when I am sure she will return to her home city realising infact how lovely it is!

Thanks everyone for the replies, I think that's the key, knowing your limits with the practical side of dance and training and seeing what else you could get out of a course but incorporating dance within it somehow. De Montfort seems to have come up a couple of times so will have a look at their website. DD definitely wants to travel so a year abroad within a course would be good. Wedding planning sounds like my idea of hell ! but that does sound like an amazing job for those good at planning! I will also look at the other places mentioned, I don't know any of those ones. I'm also thinking about travel for her and me from Edinburgh, we can get mostly anywhere but I guess thinking some routes might be easier (and cheaper!) than others. I will see if there are any events near us, there was one that she went to with the school but I think the only dance type course was Sunderland Uni, which she wasn't overly impressed with. I have no idea how I have managed to produce a child that wants to do a dance degree! but it's all very exciting!

Hi Anna, thanks so much for responding - really appreciate it! She is at Manor School of Ballet and has been since primary. Her main passion though is contemporary and jazz. She got a distinction in her latest RAD ballet exam (I get so mixed up with all the grades, I can't remember which one it was!) and we do Highers here in Scotland at school, luckily they ran the Higher course last year (sometimes there are not enough pupils to run it) and got an A - she really enjoyed that course. She does love performing but also wants to use her academic grades (I hope!) and is I think looking to her long term employment, well at least I am. She has a friend who got into Elmhurst and is now at Central and she can see the work involved with that training. She would not be dedicated enough for that even if she was good enough at ballet. It's one of those tricky ones where although she could go off and do a Uni course in something completely unrelated - there is nothing she really wants to do other than something dance related as that is what she feels engaged in. I am trying to hold back to some extent as I don't want to go on and on about careers - as my mother did with me, which backfired!! I will look at the threads - thank you for passing them on!

Hi everyone, after discovering your forum by chance I thought I'd ask for some advice - as you all seem very knowledgeable! My oldest daughter is leaving school after then end of this academic year and is keen on doing a dance degree. We are in Scotland and the choice here is not huge. She is a dancer rather than an actor or singer so I am trying to persuade her that performance school/college are not her best bet. Why doesn't she use her grades to get into Uni or try for one of the conservatoires? she is coming round to this way of thinking but we are struggling to find out where is good to go...the Dance degree at Surrey looks good, we have spoken to Trinity and NSCD re contemporary courses. We have to factor in cost - would save us a huge headache if she stayed in Scotland....but I also feel if this is something she really wants to do, maybe it's best to get out there and experience as much as she can in different areas. Also thinking about possible career choices with a Uni degree - would need to pay off the loans somehow! One of the many cross roads of life needing sorted out - I am sure many of you have experienced or are experiencing similar and might be able to help. Many thanks! Nicola.