xdoodlehead

I totally agree with you spannerandpony!  Ballet is a performing art which requires physically demanding traininig, but not at all a sport.  The most one could say, IMHO, ballet is an athletic performing art.

 

Dancers are "competeing" (if that is the word) against the ideal/perfect interpretation of a certiain role or a certain variation - which actually is pretty much unachievable but that does not stop dancers trying.

 

There is one notable difference between ballet and say,Olympics.  In most prestigious ballt competitions (for example prix de Lausanne, or Verna), iit is not uncommon that in some years noone won the top prize, or even no top and second prize winners... If the judges decide that there were no dancers reaching that standrad then prize will not be given  out.

 

Could you imagine no gold nor silver medalist but only a bronz winner at the podium in Olympic games?

Oh I never knew that about not giving out prizes if they're not up to the judges' standard. wow. Intense!

yeah It would be so weird if they did that for the olympics. And I guess sports/olympics also have things like..breaking records and stuff but I don't think ballet has them?

Also, I liked what you said about ballet being an 'athletic performing art'. Not just a performing art but a very physically demanding one. 

I'm so confused as to what a sport actually is right now. I just read that chess is recognised as a sport by the International Olympic Committee...

In my opinion, no, Ballet is not a sport.

 

Your example of ice skating and rhythmic gymnastics is interesting, xdoodlehead. In both those sports - just as in trampolining, acrobatic gymnastics etc, the goal is to win a competition by performing required technical elements, performing the most difficult elements possible, being marked on technical execution and difficulty and being marked on how artistically those elements are performed. The person with most marks wins.

 

Ballet and Ballet dancers do not - and should not - have that goal. I don't go to the Ballet to tot up the number of pirouettes, or to mark the dancers on the difficulty of the steps. I go to be swept away by art; by beautiful music, by the emotion of the story and the chemistry between the characters, by the beauty of the lines created by the dancers' bodies. My appreciation of ballet is personal to me; others like different dancers, different music, different ballets. It's no different to loving Monet's work and thinking that Jackson Pollock is just splatters. In sport, there is a clear winner. In art, it is personal choice. Art shouldn't be marked to see who wins.

 

It's for this reason that I dislike Ballet competitions. But that's another discussion. :-)

Yeah I agree. There is no win or lose in art.

oohh...That's interesting. So for ballet competitions, would you consider that a sport then? I'm not sure how they work though. Is it point-system like sports too?

Art and sport can and do intersect.  A skater wants to look good but if she/he can't perform a required jump - they are out. 

 

There have been many dancers with less than perfect technique, but because they "reach" us on a different level - they are artists and we accept and often applaud their individuality.  

 

In fact, for many of us technique is almost secondary.  We want the dancer to speak to us and beauty - however we each define it - is important.  The one thing we don't forgive easily is sloppiness.  

 

A skater spends a great deal of time just getting up enough speed for those triple jumps -  in ballet we don't want to see all that preparation.  It's hidden - as is the physical effort.  The visual aspect is an imperative.   On top of that we ask the dancer to speak to us; something that is not required - desired but not required - in a skater.

 

In skating - you fall out of a jump -  goodbye gold medal.

 

If a dancer falls - and everyone does at one time or another - because the artist has spoken to us - we understand falling. We have all fallen.

This was really good! I like what you said.

Yeah I do notice that. So something like skaters are all about trying to see who's the best, getting perfect score and not falling. but ballet is more of, trying to get the message across. 

For dancers, is it like that in ballet competitions? Like even if you fall, as long as the dancer "spoke well", the judges won't give a penalty or something? 

Not really. Of course competition is involved when trying to get a place at a vocational school or a contract with a company. Yes, there is competition to be cast in a certain role. But the few dancers and aspiring ballet dancers I know personally compete only against themselves - and they dance because they have to; it's part of them.

hmm I see. That's interesting to know. Yeah I agree, like how people say that they can only express themselves through dance. 

So are you saying that ballet is not a sport at all? Or could it be that, it is a sport and a performing art? I've heard sport and art cannot mix.

There is competition in just about everything in which humans engage.  Getting into an orchestra is competitive.  Playing an instrument is difficult - takes years of practice.  Some instruments are physically difficult to play - a musician has to stay in shape,

 

But its not a sport.

 

One of the great differences  (to me) betwixt ballet and sport is that while athletes are often beautiful that is not their initial goal. Usually a score is involved somewhere in the sport.   In the ballet - symmetry, beauty, line, structure, musicality, emotive ability, are all intrinsic goals.

 

In a sport no one is very concerned if how the athlete ties their shoes (as long as they stay on) but in ballet a misplaced shoe ribbon can distract from the line of the dancer.

 

The physical presentation is important; no grunting, spitting, chewing, panting, back slapping,etc.

 

In other genres of dance, dance has many uses: religious, celebratory, martial, openly competitive, story telling,  etc.  The ballet is the only one that I can think of in which beauty is the goal - modern distortions notwithstanding.

 

Just a personal opinion.

woah. I never knew about the "misplaced shoe ribbon distracting the line of the dancer". Didn't know it has to look good to that extent.  Thanks for telling me something new  

but thats why sometimes I wonder why rhythmic gymnastics/ice skating is a sport. Cause I know they're also really concerned about their looks. Probably because they're in the Olympics, people see them as a sport? What do you think?

and yes, I think it's true that ballet is art because of the musicality, acting, etc. But if you see...like for example, ice skating. There's musicality and acting in it too, but people seem to see it as more of a sport than an art compared to ballet. I wonder why... 

Don't you think some dancers dance to be the best? Even if they don't show it, don't you think they compete with the others and try to win (like to get the role in a company or something)? Sometimes what I see in a class is that everyone's trying to get the highest jump, or trying to lift their legs higher. (so much that they forget -like what you said- the reason they dance which is to actually express themselves).

I don't think the poll itself is a problem; with or without it you are still asking for help with research. I just wanted to make you aware of our policy and check that you are only asking for opinions from adults.

 

Kind regards,

Hello,

Oh okay I see. Yes, it is for adults. Do I have to put a (18+) sign somewhere?

Thanks

Hello xdoodlehead and welcome to the forum. :-)

 

As you are asking for help with research, may I draw your attention to this section of our Forum Acceptable Use Policy:

 

"Contacting members for research

 

We have a large constituency of dancers on the Forum so people may come here to find guinea pigs for their academic research. It is best that people seeking subjects should go through the dance schools so that bona fides can be checked, rather than soliciting help here.

 

Nonetheless, should you wish to post here, be aware that to take account of concerns about exploitation, particularly of children, we will remove postings unless it is made clear that it is over-18s who are being canvassed. If thinking of replying you should realise that we have no way of checking posters’ credentials and therefore advise caution before responding."

 

Can I just check that you are seeking responses from adults (i.e. aged 18+)?

 

Many thanks,

Spanner

Balletcoforum Moderating Team

Hello spannerandpony, (is this the method I should use to reply-by clicking 'quote'?)

Thank you. I am new here and still getting used to everything.

I actually just wanted to hear people's opinion on what people are thinking about the topic and see the different sides. But I can remove the poll if it seems like I want to use them as guinea pigs?

Please advise me. Thank you.

Hello. Just wondering if ballet is considered a sport or just a performing art?

Do you think ballet is a sport? Why? What makes it a sport/not a sport?

For me, I think ballet is difficult enough to be a sport. The high intensity training, stress, injuries and competitiveness makes it seem like a sport to me. But many people see it just as something pretty -because they don't see the 'behind the scenes'.

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance.