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Flora

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Posts posted by Flora

  1. What she's been given may actually be a huge blessing. I agree with Mrs Brown. Years ago DD (who is now 17) came across a dancer on the summer school circuit who pre-puberty was painfully weak and thin - tiny tiny stick legs and arms and looked the least likely to have any kind of career and a terribly uncoordinated and weak dancer. Well, that certainly all changed! Of course looking back with hindsight the reality was that she was probably the most promising of all... 

  2. I had surgery on bunions in both feet, on the NHS, around 15 years ago. They were done at the same time (my decision, not recommended in any way by the surgeon) and the correction involved pins in both big toes (I was told this was to ensure the operation was a life long solution as otherwise they would come back). Although very successful for some considerable time afterwards I certainly couldn't wear high heels and even now I wear relatively sensible heels at work. I'm not a dancer but I don't think my big toes are very strong and I wouldn't want to take my whole body weight on them. The operation itself was extremely painful and I had very reduced mobility for weeks afterwards. However I now no longer have any pain walking in comfortable flat shoes which was not the case before- pre-op I had pain walking extending into the soles of my feet at just 32 years of age. Incidentally, the GP initially told me he would refer me but highly unlikely the NHS would operate despite the pain. However by the time I saw the surgeon he said my Xrays showed the problem was actually urgent and that my bunions were hereditary. After my successful operation my mother also got hers done. Her surgery was not on the NHS and she did not have pins inserted. She found the whole thing much much less painful than me and was back on her feet much more quickly than me. Her op was about ten years ago but her bunions have not so far returned.        

  3. It’s disappointing but if you take away the very few top tier institutions in the UK such as RBS and ENBS which don’t send their dancers to P de L the provision of schools, at 16 especially, is actually quite light in the UK. For instance, London is a huge city on the world stage but where do you train in classical ballet only at 16-19 in London if you don’t get a place at RBS or ENBS and/or you don’t want Central? If you compare with say Florida in the States which we know well there is really high quality ballet provision in a number of towns across the State and not just in Miami. These schools are training students in a serious way- dancing the required hours and with top flight teaching - albeit the studios may be a bit grubby and not as nice as the lovely Floral Street. They may not have the brand name but that is not everything.

     

    I feel in the UK to improve with these sorts of statistics we need to create more grass roots opportunities for more students. Just my view- others may disagree and feel there is a good selection of alternatives.

     

    And of course query if there is a job at the end anyway if the provision were to increase...

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  4. Lived in Central London for 22 years now and fortunately the night of London Bridge our daughter decided to stay in for dinner before joining her boyfriend in London Bridge. It was a good decision. My daughter's boyfriend was not so lucky - he saw terrible things, lost his work colleague that night and had a stranger die in his arms. He somehow found time to call my daughter to stop her from coming, for which I will be eternally grateful. I remember his call- my daughter was on the stairs with her jacket on ready to go. People have different perspectives and experiences and some poor people are just downright unlucky/in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I must admit I find some of the comments here about the risk (or lack of) in London a little bit too dismissive. 

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  5. Hi 

     

    If you are prepared to swap schools you could consider applying to one of the European schools instead. Our DD is not eligible on income for any financial support in UK but she has a full scholarship for her new school (she is in 6.2, having spent a year in the States last year) and there are no tuition fees whatsoever or any means testing. She has to do a few academic lessons (history of dance and music etc) and is learning German. Term has started already for the current year in some schools in Europe though- I'm not sure if that would be an issue or if late places come up.

  6. Our DD does not have the perfect ballet body by today's standards and over the years she has grown used to being the type of dancer (she feels) plagued with criticism in the classroom and heaped with praise when she steps off the stage. The contrast is just huge. Every ballet door that has opened for her - and she has had some amazing opportunities especially in the last year or so- have come from being seen on stage and never in the classroom. It has been wonderful but also so difficult for her but one thing we know is the best training available to her is definitely not the UK. To those members in Aus etc who see us as having loads of great schools in the UK, I really don't think the training here is great if you are not in line for the very best like RBS US which are just so very very competitive. There are other schools in the UK, of course, but that doesn't mean they are all universally great for classical ballet. Our DD turned down the UK places she was offered as we just didn't feel they were as decent as the options overseas. She made RBS US finals but it was obvious in the audition the places had all been filled by international competition winners and WL and quite honestly there was no way she was going to be going there anyway. She does not have the look. I don't know how much longer our DD will dance. It could be days, weeks, months or years. I do really wish though that the emphasis was a bit more on natural acting ability and musicality and dancers who dance with their soul, rather than the tricks they can do, how high will the leg go and how long are your legs and how great are your feet.

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  7. DD completed a year in US in June and although she is now joining a European school for one year, she had a fantastic time, grew up a lot and made astonishing progress as well as lots of friends. She hopes to return to the States (ideally the same school) for her graduate year and job search from there as the prospects seem so much better.

    You never really know with a new school so rather than focus on it I'd ask the question realistically what will she achieve in her current school? Do the graduates get paid jobs or do they end up doing a further year of training or repeating a year? And crucially, if it goes wrong will they probably have her back?   

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  8. On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 01:26, HopelessMummy said:

    Wow. It's out of a fire and into another. I'm a barrister and new to this ballet mum business. And quite frankly I prefer 15 days in court getting battered by the judge, client, opponents rather than having to make sure daughter is in the right colour leotard or the right way round or have enough pins with her or watching her compete in festivals.

     

    It's a long arduous process getting to the Bar and the rejections will come thick and fast. But persist and your daughter will find a rewarding career and profession (not necessarily well paid if in legal aid criminal or family work).

    I'm a practising lawyer and I can honestly say I've found supporting my 17 year old's ballet career more emotionally gruelling over the years than my job.  

    • Like 5
  9. 10 hours ago, Kate_N said:

     

     

    I'd reiterate DrDance's point here: I think we should train ourselves to take anything we see on social media with a huge pinch (a cupful :D) of salt. Social media are edited, curated & constructed glimpses of someone's life: the images & posts appear to be "authentic" but they are as edited as anything else. I know I might take a dozen photos of an event or a view, and post only one on my Instagram account. 

     

    Also, re the "phenom" phenomenon - historically, there have always been prodigies who seem to race ahead of everyone else. I'm thinking of the way Charles Dickens sends this up in his novel,  Nicholas Nickleby back in the 1840s with the "Infant Phenomenon" (a concert ballet dancer) kept "Infant" size by prodigious quantities of gin! It's a comic send up of something that he recognised then as a bit ridiculous ad not the usual way of the theatre. 

     

    And I think that's still the case. Most dancers - by far the majority - train slow and steady and go on to have diverse careers. I'd hope we wouldn't be flustered into thinking "Everyone's doing X" or "Oh there's no hope for my DC when they (name of any prestigious school) are taking all these young prodigies."  One 14 year old is unusual, not usual.

     

    For example, where are Miko Fogerty or Dusty Button now - to name two recent "phenoms" (ones I know about at any rate)? Ms Button (I follow her on Instagram) is making an interesting & diverse freelance career but what she's doing is no threat to young dancers aspiring to a classical career; and I've lost track of where Ms Fogarty is dancing.  But she's not a soloist with the RB, ENB, or the BRB.

     

    I don't mean to focus on these two dancers as individuals, but just as examples of hot-housed & pushed dancers who are enjoying careers, but are on careers tracks that are not a "threat" or in competition with dancers trained in more traditional "slow & steady" ways. 

     

    I must admit the one summer our DD had a packed schedule it badly back-fired injury wise and she was off for weeks. 

     

    A lot depends on the child though surely. I remember in the past thinking a child was doing far far too much and the parent was making terrible choices jettisoning academics and turning down classes which were not classical ballet for yet more privates. However the dancer never sustained injury and has gone from strength to strength through top schools and now companies. 

     

    Also, looking at the career progression of many principal dancers it always strikes me many were in companies by at least 17 and doing not a lot besides giving all to ballet from a pretty young age.

     

    The schools too have double standards. Despite advocating slow and steady training for their UK students the top voc schools seem equally happy to recruit intensively trained dancers from competitions like YAGP and put them up a year to study with students at least a year older. This, even if academically a student may be quite frankly almost illiterate and/or incredibly immature on a personal level. 

     

    As a parent you make the best decisions you can for your child surely and sometimes you get it wrong. 

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  10. 1 hour ago, Danceintherain said:

    I've just seen Elmhurst are holding another audition date for years 7, 10 and sixth form!!  They don't normally do this do they?!  After all the pre-lims and finals, to then hold another audition.  I'm still waiting on DDs feedback from her y10 final, and it does surprise me that they haven't taken more from those who got through to finals if there is a space, rather than hold another date.  On one hand it's good they don't 'just take anyone' (meant in the nicest possible sense!), but it still surprises me considering there were a good number of strong dancers at finals who have gained RBS SA places and offered full time training at other schools.

    I see they are particularly looking for 6.2 which will be my DD's year. Quite a few seem to have left that year group mid year. I don't know why.

     

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  11. My DD is ex YDA and I've been following YDA grad destinations over the last five or six years. The standard of teaching is good and especially in Year 11, where it is really impressive. Most of the students get a UK classical school if they want one but whether it is the classical school the student most wants, is another matter, particularly for the girls. There is good support applying for the UK schools but if the student doesn't get what they want or if they particularly want to apply overseas, or if the new school proves a disaster for the student when they arrive, the student and parents are on their own to sort it all out. That's probably not unusual and not meant as a criticism of YDA- just pointing out what we have observed over the years.

     

     

     

     

     

         

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  12. On ‎26‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 07:32, Harwel said:

    Fascinating the different experiences from one school - interesting the difference is very much lower school experience versus upper school experience - the shine wears off over time and the reality of the situation comes out.  The upper school experience is the sharp end, the reason for the lower school - getting a job after training.  If these students feel unsupported and left to their own devises everything becomes tainted.  I agree with a post above when I would assume (rightly or wrongly) the AD forging links abroad is about attracting foreign students to the school, preferably full paying ones! I don’t wish to be rude but not to see that is a little naive. AD has to answer to a board, has to balance the books and keep attracting students.  

     

    At my DS school, head of dance knows every child has regular meetings with them especially upper school.  6th form students are employed (if they want)  at weekend courses, holiday courses and special dance days at a very good rate which gives them a part time job within the school and fabulous experience of admin, organising, assistant teaching.  My ds has been give permission to have a few days out of school to train as a Pilates teacher so he can earn money in between dance jobs.  It is a fully rounded training for life. 

    Appreciate the commercial aspects for the ADs, but equally I can think of various strong UK students over the years- who would be full fee paying- turned away from the top schools at US and even sometimes lower. On the one hand you would think - they just don't have the talent and standards have to be maintained regardless of money- but some of these then went off to compete through YAGP etc suddenly to be courted where they were turned away before. An example of a dancer was given above I think offered in YAGP but not in school audition. I don't believe that experience is actually all that rare. It makes you wonder if sufficient interest is being paid to the UK students being turned out.

  13. DD has recently stopped growing (she is 17) and finds how long she gets from a pointe shoe varies. Freed generally last less than a single class, she uses Russian Pointe and gets a few weeks out of them (generally about 2-3). She is en pointe probably 4-5 hours a day Monday-Friday, sometimes more.

    • Like 1
  14. I agree Anna with your post above and plainly no school is perfect. Also UK schools must work within the stricture of the UK system and we parents would probably not be happy if academics were jettisoned in the way some international students jettison them at 14 or so. Appreciate this has also all been discussed before. 

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  15. Besides care of existing students it is worrying that all the artistic directors are increasingly trotting the globe to search for other people’s work. I would query what value is really being added by a school taking students who are basically already company ready and which the top companies will have no issue finding anyway if they are so minded. I know of international students who saw US as an audition for the company. They were not going for anything other than a bit of final polish and a self marketing exercise. This is really disheartening for the ex yr 11 home grown students who quite frankly are often streets behind and very disheartening too for other UK students at finals (of which my DD was one) knowing that realistically so many places at the top schools would be allocated in this way. I also struggle with the fact that 14 and 15 year olds are increasingly taken into US. To me this in itself is an acknowledgment the training in Yr 10 and 11 is for students who are already well behind.

     

    I would urge parents going through  the yr 7 audition process not to be fooled by brand names and assume that having a child at any of the lower schools will set them up with exactly what they need and be a ticket to top intensive classical training at Yr 12. It really isn’t. 

     

     

    • Like 5
  16. 3 minutes ago, alison said:

     

     

     

     

    Question is, is the situation - in general - any better abroad?  I know a couple of exceptions have been mentioned, but is that widespread?  You don't want to be jumping out of the frying-pan into the fire ...

    Yes that is very true. Equally though a few months ago a 15 year old very proficient American dancer said to me ‘I don’t really mind where I train as long as I get to train- it doesn’t make all that much difference which studio you are in.’ I was just struck by that as something you would just never hear a serious UK dancer of her age say. I believe she had been in several places and just had a decent experience in all of them. Maybe she was lucky and naive...

    • Like 3
  17. For those interested in schools abroad we found DD’s upper school by looking at the existing schools of competition winners at yagp and the prix. If a particular school keeps appearing in the lists year after year but with different students and esp if it is not a household name school you can get an idea of places which may be doing a decent job and are worth researching further. We found one we liked the look of, dd went for summer school, loved it and when she returned got positive comments from her teachers who asked her where she had been dancing over the summer. Of course she didn’t say as the school wasn’t on the list of approved summer schools......

    • Like 2
  18. I fully appreciate Forum rules need to be respected and no child outed but I wanted to add to the discussion we have a 17 year old DD having a fabulous time dancing overseas and receiving true world class classical teaching. It is tough and critical at times and the hours in the studio are staggering but it is under current nurturing of every student. 

     

    By comparison my observation is we seem to know an awful lot of parents who have come bitterly to regret their child’s time in top UK training and feel they were horribly let down. It is such a familiar theme from year groups above and below my DD of the people we know and know of, and is consistent to a point too with our own experience. I am sorry to say I really and truly struggle to believe the complaints are always untrue.

     

    Unfortunately what happens is when it goes wrong the parents pick up the pieces and they focus on sorting out their child and they don’t rock the boat and also don’t want to risk being told it is just sour grapes. Do parents need to do more boat rocking collectively in order to improve the quality of the training, the commitment to each dancer, the sometimes dire selection (how is it that lay people with no ballet knowledge can quietly KNOW a particular choice will go horribly wrong in only months, and lo and behold....) and ultimately the return on taxpayers’ investment? 

    • Like 15
  19. For all the DC with WL: DD has twice been offered RBS SS from the waiting list and also had waiting list for RBS associates the first year she applied (she got in the following year) so actually it is a good result even if it makes planning a nightmare..

    • Like 5
  20. Our DD attended a few years ago. It is a serious summer school: the main purpose is to recruit for the year round school though so they take more of an interest in some than others. DD got unlucky and attended a week with very few English speakers so she felt quite lonely 

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