extra classes

[stardancer]

hi does anyone have a problem with there ballet teacher

asking for extra classes

my daughter does one advanced class a week no pointe

i asked for more but this is the only one she does

i asked if she cold attend a class elsewhere

this did not go down well

she said private classes was the only way

but they are to exspensive

she says my daughter needs more but will do little to help

any ideas

[Anna C]

Is your DD an Associate anywhere Stardancer? Our local school only does limited classes but I added in some Private Lessons. When I can't afford them every week we just drop the frequency.

 

It helps now that DD has a good 3 hours training on Saturday at her Associate Classes. I don't think my DD's local teacher would approve of top up classes at another local school but obviously Associate Schemes are different.

[Jellybeans]

Could your daughter do classes at a different level in her existing school?

 

It can often be helpful to take classes below your level as this helps to build basic technique.

 

What she does depends on her ambitions as a dancer. If she aspires to a career in dance, I really think that she needs to be doing more than one class a week (I noticed her age on another post of yours) and you may need to consider changing schools.

[glowlight]

At an advanced level, if she has aspirations to be a dancer, she should probably be doing more than one class a week.

 

It can be difficult for teacher to schedule extra classes into their timetable so I can understand it being difficult for the teacher to accommodate, but we were lucky I think that DD's teacher understoond the importance of doing more classes, and was happy to recommend other teachers that she would be happy for my DD to go to. There are very definite benefits with having different teachers, because different people explain things in different ways.

 

I don't think private lessons are a long term answer. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, but you learn so much more from being in a class with other students. Are there any other students of a similar level at the dance school, perhaps you could suggest clubbing together to share a private lesson, thus spreading the cost?

 

The idea of doing classes at a different level is a good one too. No harm at all in doing a grade below the one she is currently studying, and some teachers will allow students to join in with the grade above, but I suppose there may be a worry about getting syllabus confused.

[stardancer]

hi everyone

my daughters teacher has the new intermediate but my daughter did the old one

to avoid this class

there is no advanced 2 as no one is at that level yet and she will not but one on

my daughter is the only one who aspires in there as they are betweem 19 and 65

and most do not show up most weeks

my daughter was the first to take intermediate

i asked if she could do an extra grade 7 but she only has one

so i asked for grade 8 and she said it was full

which is hard to believe as no one in there even turns up some weeks

what a problem

[2dancersmum]

My DD has a similar problem in that her school only offers 1 Advanced class a week and although the teacher has no problem with her adding a class at another school, the only one we can find within 1.5 hrs drive is typically at the same time as her existing one! However I would echo what posts above have said and see if she can take classes at a lower level. Your DD is young for Advanced 1 and I notice she has only just taken Intermediate, the old syllabus from what I can gather. I don't know her result but even if she got a very high distinction I would suggest it would still be of great benefit to her to do the new syllabus Intermediate alongside her Advanced. It is very different to the old syllabus so it will not feel like she is repeating herself and without the pressure of an exam she will be getting used to the new style of the vocational exams. This is what my DD has done on the insistence of her teacher who not only stressed the importance of a very solid technique but also pointed out that later on my DD would be auditioning for places at vocational school with girls who had taken their exams later than her and be strong therefore in the new styles being taught. My DD has loved learning the new syllabus over the past year and feels it has helped her become a stronger dancer overall.

[stardancer]

hi 2dancersmum

yes any class can only make you a better dancer i agree

i am just a bit sad that she will not let my daughter attend

another school as there are lots in my area

but on the other hand she is fantasic

but i feel she should put my daughter first and not let her rules

get in the way

we are going to try for an assosiate school for september that might help

she is a lovely teacher but lacks fire

[glowlight]

I think doing the new syllabus Intermediate could be a very good move. My dd has done Advanced 1 but would still happily go to an Intermediate class when she is home to work on technique.

 

I think from your last message that she is also doing Grade 7, so with that and her Advanced class that would be 3 a week which isn't so bad.

 

And then maybe consider options for private lessons, perhaps sharing them with others, or having a private lesson once a month.

 

And if it all really doesn't seem to work - look elsewhere (but make sure you really are able to get what you want with another school before making the move!)

[stardancer]

hi glowlight

thank u also for youre help

my daughter hates the new intermediate only because her teacher told her she would not pass

the old intermedite exam

and would have to do the new intermediate in the end

well as you no she was wrong so my daughter feels by doing this class

her teacher was right and all that hard work was for nothing

my daughter is very strongwilled at 12 as she has had lots of terrible teachers

who continue to give no support

[Anjuli_Bai]

There is no such thing as the "teacher will not allow us to take elsewhere." You are the customer - you can shop wherever you want to - especially since the teacher has nothing to offer you further. Taking a lower class - or one above - is a good idea but it is not a solution. If you daughter aspires to a vocation in dance she definitely has to find good teachers who will support her and give her a road forward. There is no other way. At her age she should be taking class severa times a week and, if ready, beginning pointe work.

 

Except for the first couple of years of beginning ballet, it is a distinct advantage to have more than one teacher. There is no one teacher who can teach it all. There are many ways to do almost everything in dance. Each teacher brings a different perspective and adds to the whole. A career in dance demands that the dancer can respond to many different views and voices in auditions, rehearsals, classes, etc. Any teacher who seeks to keep deprive a student of including other teachers - is someone who is teaching for her own ego - not for the benefit of the student.

 

Private lessons are at best an addition to - not a substitute for - regular class. The dancer has to learn how to move through space occupied by others.

 

If you are quite sure that your daughter has the "equipment" - the physical body - for a vocation in dance then at her age it is imperative that a major change be made in her schooling to ensure that she is getting the tuition she needs to move down that road. If you are not sure that your daughter is physically capable of a career in dance - get a second opinion from a reputable teacher with no connection to the present teacher. Inform the second teacher beforehand that your object is her professional opinion of your daughter's capabilities.

 

I do understand that many times good classes are not available - or too expensive. Unfortunately, that doesn't alter the facts of aspiring to a career in dance.

[stardancer]

hi anjuli-bai

thank you for youre fantasic reply i agree and feel like you do

my daughter has been to so many schools and each one

make sure i do not go to the other

they phone each other and say terrible things about us

we are running out of options

so this teacher has us over a barol

one teacher even put in a bad word at an associate school

so we do not go there another phoned the eyb to asked why my daughter had been picked

and gave her a list of all her faults

my list could go on but my daughter still dancers and says one day i will prove them all wrong

but in my eyes she has already

[swe]

I have had so many problems with the teacher at my DD's school -she is fantastic at certain disciplines but not ballet-and this is my daughter's passion. I have to say that I got the courage from this forum (and in particular from Anjuli) to insist that she not be tied to that school for everything and yes this was totally against the 'rules'. SHe now does ballet at one school and other forms at her original school. It has been very stressful to be honest but we have done it and I have the happiest DD since we bit the bullet! Thank you to everyone for all their invaluable advice and good luck Stardancer.

x

[Anna C]

How does your DD's teacher feel about Associate classes, out of interest? I was doing some idle research on other schools in our area and on one school's website it actually said "pupils are not permitted to take dance classes elsewhere, including Associate Schemes". My jaw nearly hit the floor!

[CeliB]

We struggled with getting enough classes for my DS because his teacher only had a limited number at his level, but she was completely open to alternatives (and indeed helped us research them and did a lot of the contacting of other teachers on our behalf). In fact she encouraged him so strongly to take the best route for him that she now only teaches him occasionally in the school holidays when he is home from vocational school- yet she is overjoyed at his progress.

 

My DDs school (where she goes for enjoyment with no intention of taking it as a career) have encouraged her to do additional classes and stretch herself by taking more advanced classes, and have suggested my younger DS apply for associates classes at RBS.

 

I would seriously question how good a teacher or school is if they don't encourage students to reach their potential by whatever means. Especially since it is common that a local school just doesnt run enough classes for someone aspiring to dance as a career- otherwise what would be the point of vocational school! Or am I being naive? I have never heard of these kinds of rules about taking classes elsewhere.....

 

Even more I would question the professionalism of someone who makes negative comments about a student to other schools or teachers.

 

Perhaps if you can tell the forum roughly where you are there are members of the board who could recommend a teacher/school and you could consider a complete change...?

[Anjuli_Bai]

I have sometimes wondered just how legal it is to set up rules that say a student (customer) can't take classes (shop) at another school (store)? Just as it is illegal to deny someone from taking class based on race/ethnicity/religion, etc., - I don't see how a school can say that if you take class somewhere else is forbidden. I'd love to see this contested. A storekeeper can't keep you out of a store if you've shopped somewhere else.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Anjuli_Bai

[charlie4dancin]

My dd has danced nearly 8 years with the same dance teacher who has supported and advised us all the way including extra classes, encouraging us to go to auditions and even advising on where to go for top up classes if and when needed... We always listen to her advise and trust her judgement as I believe a good dance teacher knows best

I think doing the new inter class sounds like a good idea and would give her an extra class that you are looking for and a chance to show her determination... 'let the dance do the talking we say'

If she's just passed inter and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can move on advanced 2... and certainly needs to be doing a pointe class at this level!!

I find it astonishing that you have had so many teachers who as you say Continue to give no support... Don't suppose past teachers are obligated to support former students as they are very busy but urge you to speak with your current teacher and hopefully come to some agreement as this doesn't sound like a healthy environment in which your dd can develop and move forward without having to have yet another change of teacher...

 

 

[stardancer]

hi charlie4dancin

thank you for youre reply youre daughter is very lucky to have the support of her teacher

youre dd will go far

tonight i had another word with the teacher but she was more intereted in asking where

her dance fees are

i also told her my daughter might be able to do an associate class next week and how exciting it is for her

and her reply was so you will not need the private class this week turned and left

[charlie4dancin]

Associate classes are a fantastic opportunity to progress but these are few and far between and they are only meant to enhance training you already do at home which associate class where you thinking about?

Hope your dd enjoys this new experience...

[twinkletoes]

my dd dance teacher doesn't mind people doing extra classes as long as they get her approval first, its a bit annoying but her view is that she needs to know if someone else is "undoing her good work" personally I don't see the problem, the more dancing they do the more variety they learn and its only ballet she's bothered about really.

[Aurora]

Your dance teacher can't stop you going elsewhere unless you've signed a contract that says you won't, but she can of course stop teaching your daughter if she chooses to.

 

I do find it a little worrying that your daughter is at an advanced level and only taking one class per week, especially if she's doing pointe (though you said she isn't doing pointe, but i don't know how that's possible in advanced - unless you mean she just doesn't do a separate pointe class perhaps).

 

The advanced dancers at my daughter's school take about 4 or 5 ballet classes a week to my knowledge, Also no child even begins pointe if they're not doing at least 3 ballet classes a week, something to do with strength I guess.

 

Is the teacher in favour of associate classes? It does sound as though she's not all that interested though which is a shame. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere although it sounds as though you really are running out of options. What on earth went on with the other teachers to make them react in that way?!

 

I hope you manage to get something sorted out. At least at 12 you've got plenty of time to increase the classes - essential if your daughter is going to audition for ballet schools when she's older. I would try to sort it out soon though if I were you.

[twinkletoes]

when we registered with my dd dance school they put the 'no other dance classes without permission' in the terms and conditions which of course no-one reads

I agree with Aurora, you need to just ignore the teacher and take her to additional classes, its dangerous to do the pointe that is needed with such little class time its just too easy to do damage to the foot without realising it, if the teacher is that strict i'd considered not telling her if you can find another teacher outside the local area they are unlikely to contact her and there are always large dance schools in city centres or private lessons though that can be expensive. Some associate courses are free depending on income which is also quite handy at times

good luck sorting it

[2dancersmum]

I find myself a little confused by this thread as it has gone on. From what I can gather stardancer your daughter has classes in grade 7 and advance 1, therefore 3 in total. If you can persuade her to do new intermediate that would be 5. In addition she seems to have done EYB and currently does 1 associate class a month with that maybe increasing with a different associate scheme from September. I especially do not understand how she is doing the current associate class without the approval of the teacher as the scheme is set up so that the teacher reccommends pupils for the scheme and certainly asks for payment to come through dance schools rather than individuals. Did you make a direct approach? Did she refuse to put your DD forward?

 

My advice would probably be to continue with your current teacher for a few months with your DD doing grade 7, adv 1 and new intermediate and let the dust settle but I would suggest also you follow CeliB's advice and ask on here for reccommendations for schools in your area. I think you need a good working relationship with the teachers/school and it may be time to move on and start afrresh if the relationship at your current school is beyond repair.

 

With all of this comes the question of what does your DD want to do? I have assumed she wants to be a dancer and go down the vocational route. If this is the case, bear in mind that the audition process anywhere at any age is tough and no audition panel looks at their grades and what exams they have taken. No-one knows exactly what they are looking for but solid/secure technique in what they have learned alongside potential for a successful ballet career would be a fair guess.

[famcandance2]

I understand where you're coming from, only what do you do when your dd isn't being taught well, the teacher won't allow her to do more than she's doing (one ballet a week) and there is no-where within reasonable distance to go for extra? Sure she does associates once a month but she wants to go vocational and is being left behind. She is 12 and has been told the teacher puts everyone on pointe as late as possible. She never assesses before pointe, just puts the whole class on. She tried some vocational auditions last year but didn't get in and I feel it's due to bad teaching as I have been told she has perfect physique and lots of potential. We live rurally, there is nothing in our town for her. I travel 1 hour twice weekly as it is for her current classes and 3 hours once a month for associates. Any suggestions?

[Anna C]

Are there any CAT centres within travelling distance, famcandance? Or other Associate schemes you could apply for?

[famcandance2]

No there are no cat schemes round us in Scotland. Also there are only two associate schemes in Scotland. Both are very difficult to get into because they take so few children and have to cater for the whole of Scotland so unfortunately neither of these is an option. Thanks for your suggestions though.

[Lilac]

Hi, we also have a problem similar to this. My daughter has been advised at her associate lessons to take Inter Foundation asap, and suggested private lessons to top up the grade work. The problem is that although there are 2 lessons at that level per week, one clashes with her associate class and the other looks like turning into pracrice for the Summer show, yet at the same time the teacher advises 2 lessons of grade work per week! She has a timetable too overloaded to do any private lessons. Her other idea was to top up with RAD courses, but this term's isn't running. The teacher keeps promising alternatives, what we don't know. My daughter adores the school and will not move. In the end I've found a local teacher that we've had past contacts with who is willing to accept her as a temporary Int Fdn student until she can take the exam unfortunately not until Summer. We want her options to be kept open to apply for vocational school later on, which is why doing associates and getting through exams is a high priority, she's just turned 13. I don't feel that we can always rely on what the teacher may or may not offer as feel her priority is shows, fashion shows etc and is very difficult to talk to. I really understand some of the previous commenta, especially parents who are tryint to do the best for their child, which is all I'm trying to do. So frustrating!

 

Lilac

[Anna C]

Difficult one Lilac...my DD was at a school which concentrated on shows and only did exams every other year, and then only when the whole class was ready. Even though your DD doesn't want to move, sometimes it's the only option. We are currently having trouble getting enough local ballet classes for DD but there is no other equivalent school within travelling distance. A lot of the classes DD could attend clash with her Associate classes so we try to top up with Easter Schools, Summer schools, EYB etc. If your DD is set on applying for Vocational school, it may be that she has to move local schools....

[stardancer]

hi lilac

i no how sad and frustrated you must feel i wish these teachers would realise we only have good intensions

for our children

and i feel they should work together with us to find a compromise

how about getting the associate school to phone youre dd teacher a little push might help

or maybe try having a word yourself and stress youre situation

if this does not work phone the associate school back and ask for help

also ask youre dd teacher is there anyone she can send youre daughter to for that class and maybe after the show

have private classes if you can afford this or double up with another child

also you said youre dd is 13 how about going straight into the intermediate class instead

i feel this is much better as my own daughter even said the inter foundations never prepared her for what was to come in the next exam

and as she is 13 i feel this age is more better for the intermediate and maybe the times of the classes are better for you all

let me no how you get on

[2dancersmum]

Could you perhaps talk to the teacher about extra classes in Feb half term and Easter hols etc. Before vocational exams our teacher put on a few special 2 hour long classes in school holidays so that she could run through the whole syllabus in one session. We also have the same problem losing classes because of shows but the teacher will alternate in classes not needed for rehearsals so that some grade and some vocational work is still covered. Inter-foundation is an optional exam so she could skip it and move straight into intermediate if you wished. However, vocational exams are quite different to the normal grades so it is a good place to start and my DD did feel it prepared her well for intermediate. Getting enough local classes is often a problem as they get older. We have the same problem for my DD. She has 1 Adv class a week (suspended for the Easter show) and there is nowhere locally that offers the same level class apart from 1 school that asks you commit to a whole host of festivals and shows aswell and there Adv1 class is on the same night at the same time as her existing one.!

[primrose]

I would just like to say that vocational schools are not interested in vocational exams, It makes no difference what grade or exam they have done. The schools are looking for students who can dance, move to music and how to move instinctivley. Vocational exams are useful if students want to be entered for certain dance competitions. If my dd was young again I would not want to go down the exam route, I would want classes that are more classicaly freestyle. My dd did reach Advance 1 gaining a distinction and was about to do Advanced 2 , it was at that point that I realised an exam wasnt going to get her into the school she wanted, so I pulled her out of the classes (a month before the exam) and got her some excellent private lessons away from the school. I feel I made the right decision and she gained a place at a very good school.

[Anjuli_Bai]

I agree with Primrose. I have never agreed with the syllabus based classes even when labeled "vocational." It's not about grades or exams or distinctions and I certainly would never agree with cancelling or cutting down on class work while getting ready for any kind of show or recital. I have always felt that syllabus work readies the student for just that and no more. It can never replace the constant introduction - in every class - with every exercise - with new ways of putting steps together to new music. This is what dancers have to learn to do - incorporate new thought/movement patterns - all the time. Yes, of course, barre work begins with pliés, tendues, etc. - but the pattern should always be different. Keeps the dancer thinking - keeps the body thinking. I know that classes in Britain are overwhelmingly syllabus based - but I see that as a problem. Teaching a syllabus is a crutch for the teacher and a huge money maker - almost guaranteeing the continued participation of the student (customer) as they get caught up in the exam process. Just my old lady opinion.

[famcandance2]

Sadly I have found by experience that vocational schools dont take girls on potential, good movement, etc. It seems they are looking for girls that are technically correct and fit their way of teaching. Sorry to sound negative, but dd did a beautiful contemporary dance for an audition which was passionate and had a lovely flow to it. She still didn't get in. When we enquired why we were told she fell down on a few technical points. Hard to know what they want these days!

[primrose]

You have misunderstood me, when I said a freestyle class, they are still taught technique to a very hight standard. They still have to do all the barre work and centre excercises. They are just not the same every single time. Another point also is that none of the vocational schools teach to a syllabus, they may do a RAD class on a Saturday. This is my personal opinion after twelve years experience of my dd doing syllabus work. She learned far more from a class that didnt teach a syllabus. I just worry that parents feel that their children should be doing these exams and that they will help them to become professional dancers. Well they wont. Sometimes outreach courses may ask what grade or grade a child is working to, but this is only to advise them to what level the child is at.