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Miko Fogarty


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There must be an attraction from Ballererinas to swap thier tutu's for their white coats.

Another dancer that I know still occasionally returns to the studio to teach ballet whilst balancing studies in her 2yr at Medical school.

She's in her early 30's having graduated from RBS and then performed professioanlly for about 8yrs before changing career. 

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9 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

 

 

 From what I have read the same happened to  Australian Claudia Dean: she was individually trained and coached to dance solos at galas and at competitions, but when it came to thriving as a professional dancer in the RB corps de ballet she couldn't mentally adapt to dancing just corps roles, she wasn't mentally prepared to do her time in the corps. As a corps de ballet dancer she got a few solo roles as a test, and I think it must have posed a problem for her to accept that one day she could dance a solo role but on other days she had to return to being a corps de ballet dancer, as that was her rank after all, she wasn't a soloist. When she didn't get the promotion she thought she deserved she gave up. 

 

Claudia Dean trained at RBS from the age of  15 -17 1/2  before entering into the RB Company. I believe that her decision to leave was in no way associated with her position in the company. She took the brave step, after the realisation that company life was not the life she wanted, of leaving and returning to her native Australia. She has found her calling in life in training the next generation dancers - she is generous with her time and experience in encouraging these young girls. I for one find her a breath of fresh air and would like to applaud her.

9 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, balletbean said:

There must be an attraction from Ballererinas to swap thier tutu's for their white coats.

Another dancer that I know still occasionally returns to the studio to teach ballet whilst balancing studies in her 2yr at Medical school.

She's in her early 30's having graduated from RBS and then performed professioanlly for about 8yrs before changing career. 

Yes it's interesting. I know of a few doctors who have danced professionally/been vocational ballet students including one who is training as a maxillo-facial surgeon, which is probably one of the hardest fields to tackle as you have to be dual qualified in dentistry and medicine before you even really start. We often say on here that dance training equips young people with lots of transferable skills even if a dance career doesn't pan out - tenacity and a great work ethic are certainly amongst them, which is obviously very good.

I do wonder though if ex dancers somehow "need" pressure as they have become used to it. It does seem quite common that they opt for other difficult paths on leaving the dance world.

 

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Well Miko has been very successful dance wise when you consider all the girls who don't make it at all!

so not a terrible result really.

Also she is now not only successfully pursuing another career but  still maintains contact with ballet in the way that she chooses too and now enjoys teaching. 

Overall she has done well in her life even if not a principal dancer with a Company.

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2 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Well Miko has been very successful dance wise when you consider all the girls who don't make it at all!

so not a terrible result really.

Also she is now not only successfully pursuing another career but  still maintains contact with ballet in the way that she chooses too and now enjoys teaching. 

Overall she has done well in her life even if not a principal dancer with a Company.

The life she wants ... BRAVO!!

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much ado about nothing to my eyes !

the life she wants yes, that's wonderful...

but was it really necessary to work so hard all those years to finally figure out it is not for you ?

no if you are well guided...

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I think it is very brave for someone who has had so much exposure as Miko to basically say "you know what, this isn't what I want to do". I think it's hard enough for a "regular" dance student or professional to change direction. They have put so much of themselves into it, know that others, particularly parents, have also made sacrifices, and often they haven't really considered other options or had a huge amount of exposure to alternative careers as they've grown up. So it's a step into the unknown which must be very scary. For someone like Miko who has had all that and more it must be even worse. I don't imagine it was an easy decision for her and I think it's admirable that she has chosen another path that will hopefully bring her fulfillment and happiness. 

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If you devote yourself to something at a young age , experience success and disapointments and then quit it in your 20's

I don't call that a failure.  I call that the Olympics!

 

Company life is not for Miko and so she has moved on.  Some will suck it up for years.  Others leave. 

The only lesson for me is - don't mortgage your house paying for this!

 

I expect Miko and Claudia Dean are very ambitious, driven people.  They make a decision about what they want in their lives and show that they can work for many years trying to achieve it.  

 

12 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

Intensive early training, winning competitions and dancing solos at a young age doesn't prepare a young trainee for the physical and mental rigours of professional life as a successful dancer. 

 

I don't see it as a lack of 'mental rigour' when they choose not to do years in the Corp.   It will probably be harder and harder for the kind of dancer who can get into a ballet company to then enjoy being one of the corps of swans standing quite still for many minutes in Swan Lake.  As discussed ten years ago in the article: Often a Swan, Rarely a Queen

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/arts/dance/16sulc.html

 

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I've been reading this thread with interest, as Claudia Dean is very much 'flavour of the month' here in New Zealand, and parents of talented young dancers have been flying to Australia to do workshops with her (as well as begging her to come to NZ). She also appears to have a line of dancewear, as several young NZ dancers at the Asian Grand Prix tagged her in photos of them wearing her leotards to class. I've watched some of her YouTube videos, including the one about why she left the RB, and found her very personable and likeable.

But I don't think there is any comparison really with Miko. My son works in Korea, and says that there and in Japan it's quite normal for kids to go to one 'academy' after the other as soon as school finishes every day, to study English or ballet or gymnastics or a musical instrument. So I think Miko's mother would be considered favourably in those societies and it's just our Western opinion of 'Asian tiger mothers' that influences how we feel. Miko says she lost the passion, and seems to have found a new one. As my DD has also lost her passion and wants to study medicine, I think she's made a brave decision after investing so much in ballet.

Claudia seems to me quite a different kettle of fish, who is using her valuable dance experience to build a new 'empire'. She is obviously building her 'brand' successfully, and is gathering a good following of young dancers keen to benefit from her recent experience in the ballet world.

 

I'm not critical of either young woman. You take the good things ballet has taught you, and hopefully learn to deal with the not-so-good aspects. I say good for them both for starting a new path!

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3 hours ago, MAX said:

much ado about nothing to my eyes !

the life she wants yes, that's wonderful...

but was it really necessary to work so hard all those years to finally figure out it is not for you ?

no if you are well guided...

 

How dreadfully cynical.  Most people work hard for many years no matter what their sphere of life.  I’ve met many people over the years who have realised sooner or later that the path they chose at one or more points in their life has become a path they have no longer wanted to follow and have changed their direction.  I say good on them for having the courage of their convictions to change path.

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I don't think it's particularly surprising that the things you thought you wanted at 13 aren't necessarily what you want when you're 18. People change. Circumstances change. When I was 14 I wanted to be a pilot! I loved to fly and thought nothing could be better than doing that every day. As I got older and pursued my dream, I realised that the realities of a career in that industry just didn't suit me. I still love to fly and it's a great hobby to have, but I don't want a career in it because the idea of flying the same 3 hour route twice a day, every day for 5 years does not epitomise what I love about flying. Does that mean the time and money I spent between 14 and 17 was wasted? Absolutely not. It just wasn't the career for me.

 

It's the same with ballet. I love class, but I can't imagine any career worse than a classical ballet career! I think it's important to teach kids that just because you love something, doesn't mean it has to be your job... And that if you make the choice to pursue it as a career, and decide that after experiencing it it actually isn't for you, then that's okay. It's not because you're not tough enough, or unprepared for the mental rigours of the job, it's just not the right path for you. Dancing occasionally, teaching ballet, or packing it in completely doesn't make you a failure, it makes you someone who...isn't a professional dancer. Like the vast majority of people who take a ballet class in their life! We are the 99% 😝

 

Now, I do believe that hothousing, home schooling, 40 hour a week training and attending every international ballet competition under the sun is incredibly damaging and should be discouraged. I believe that physically and mentally you are setting these kids up to fail in a way. Life is about balance. But just because someone pursues ballet as a career and then changes their mind doesn't mean that there is some inherent failing in them, and I think we have to be very careful of the language we use to describe the people who have left ballet behind, for whatever reason.

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Embrace failure, it can be life's best guide

 

This article appeared in yesterday's Times, mainly prompted by Thursday's A level results.  It is an excellent read. Matthew Parris writes about his false starts in careers, and how finding out what hasn't worked clears the way for you to find the path that is right for you. 

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Nothing in life is a failure, it’s just a step on the path of success - your own personal success.  Far too much judgement of others in this world at the moment.  To suggest either failed is ridiculous. Getting into a professional ballet company, let alone 2 of the very best in the world, is only open to about 0.01% of the population (goodness knows really, but it’s incredibly small).

 

Claudia is her own boss, using her wonderful talent to help others, probably very happy to be back in her own country with family and friends and I’m sure earning more money and working when she wants to, away from the daily bitchiness and competition that is inevitable in a highly competitive ballet company.,  As for Miko, clearly a very clever lady and what an amazing thing to be a doctor! 

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I believe I read somewhere that Claudia’s mother became seriously ill and as they had spent years apart and her mother had worked hard to help fund her, Claudia wanted to give something back. As for Miko, it must have taken considerable courage for her to step off the merry go round especially given her mother’s drive to make her a professional dancer.

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2 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Embrace failure, it can be life's best guide

 

This article appeared in yesterday's Times, mainly prompted by Thursday's A level results.  It is an excellent read. Matthew Parris writes about his false starts in careers, and how finding out what hasn't worked clears the way for you to find the path that is right for you. 

 

A very great read, the basis of which could be life's mantra.  Thanks for the link PDQ.

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Samuel Beckett: "Fail again. Fail better."

 

I do think some of the speculation and critique here is quite inappropriately personal. We really don't know what goes on in other people's lives. What if Ms Fogarty or Ms Dean were to read some of these posts?

 

And I suggest again people look at the training of Daniil Simkin - similarly hothoused & danced in many competition, now enjoying a rich and fulfilling artistic life working between 2 of the world's best companies.

 

These are dual choices and I think it's difficult to draw broader conclusions about training from them.

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And don't forget Miko had two parents!! Yes Mum was ambitious for her girl and boy to be successful dancers ( it could have been something else) and initially both of them loved it.....so no problem.....it's very difficult to force children to do something they hate!!  But the dad in that film came across quite down to earth but supportive. As soon as Mikos brother lost interest because he didn't want to put in the practice he was allowed to give it up ....he was not as keen as Miko ....mum was sad about it but accepted it....as you have to in the end!!

Interestingly both children are now following more in Dads footsteps....not IT  but on the sciences side. 

 

I know less about Claudia apart from what she has already said publicly about herself on YouTube and in other interviews.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

Money may also play a part. Miko could earn far more from Masterclasses and guest appearances than in the Corps at BRB. 

 

I was always under the impression that dancers dance because they need/want to and that money was almost secondary.  I assume this is why there are so many flourishing amateur companies...

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28 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I was always under the impression that dancers dance because they need/want to and that money was almost secondary.  I assume this is why there are so many flourishing amateur companies...

Yes, there is a need to but you also have to survive and keep a roof over your head. I try to point this out to both of my dds. It can be disheartening for ones that “make it” to realise they have to have other employment to make ends meet. Both Sergei Polunin and Darcey Busssll have discussed this.

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20 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

Yes it's interesting. I know of a few doctors who have danced professionally/been vocational ballet students including one who is training as a maxillo-facial surgeon, which is probably one of the hardest fields to tackle as you have to be dual qualified in dentistry and medicine before you even really start. We often say on here that dance training equips young people with lots of transferable skills even if a dance career doesn't pan out - tenacity and a great work ethic are certainly amongst them, which is obviously very good.

I do wonder though if ex dancers somehow "need" pressure as they have become used to it. It does seem quite common that they opt for other difficult paths on leaving the dance world.

 

Not to forget bucket loads of stamina that can't be matched by those who have  pursued a more traditional academic route.  

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I think Miko Fogarty and Claudia Dean's situations are very different and can't really be compared.

 

I hear what people are saying about the possible difficulties with "just" being in the corps when you're used to being in the spotlight and performing solos, but aside from that, you need a very different mindset to rehearse and compete than you do to rehearse and perform (in the corps or otherwise.) Everyone is doing class every day, but when you're on the competition circuit, that one perfect performance is your goal.

Before I went to vocational school, I did and then coached gymnastics. the kind of mentality, focus and drive needed to compete in gymnastics is akin to that needed for ballet competitions, but life in a company is very different. When you're performing night after night, it's a different kind of thrill.

I often think this about dancers who compete a lot. I'm not suggesting that's what happened to Miko, in fact, with her I would not be surprised if it's just a case of being so immersed in ballet from such a young age that she simply didn't have time to discover what else is out there.

 

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On 19/08/2018 at 09:36, Kate_N said:

 

I do think some of the speculation and critique here is quite inappropriately personal. We really don't know what goes on in other people's lives. What if Ms Fogarty or Ms Dean were to read some of these posts?

Kate I don't think any comments here have been unduly personal, nor that anything been said that these highly talented ladies would find offensive, were they to read it. In giving public interviews about their career choices, and being people that have a public persona, they would not be surprised to find a degree of subsequent discussion. 

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One of the other dancers featured in First Position spent a year in a company and realized it wasn't for her, and went off to train in some area of medicine (I don't remember the details now).

 

I'm just glad that in both cases they took their academic education seriously enough as youngsters that they had the grounding to do this. When I see articles about some of these kids dancing 40 hours a week or whatever, I do wonder what alternatives they have for the future if their ballet career doesn't pan out.

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On 19/08/2018 at 08:31, Harwel said:

Nothing in life is a failure, it’s just a step on the path of success - your own personal success.  Far too much judgement of others in this world at the moment.  To suggest either failed is ridiculous. Getting into a professional ballet company, let alone 2 of the very best in the world, is only open to about 0.01% of the population (goodness knows really, but it’s incredibly small).

 

Claudia is her own boss, using her wonderful talent to help others, probably very happy to be back in her own country with family and friends and I’m sure earning more money and working when she wants to, away from the daily bitchiness and competition that is inevitable in a highly competitive ballet company.,  As for Miko, clearly a very clever lady and what an amazing thing to be a doctor! 

I absolutely love this comment.  They are two very accomplished young ladies who clearly have an extremely strong work ethic.  

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On 21/08/2018 at 19:45, Richard LH said:

In giving public interviews about their career choices, and being people that have a public persona, they would not be surprised to find a degree of subsequent discussion.

 

Yes, fair point, Richard!

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I personally think that competing as a way of life can be harmful and anyway performing is a lot more important than competing.  Ballet is a performing art after all.  I don't think that ballet/dance training is a waste of time for the many that change their minds later on or find that they don't actually have what is needed to succeed.  In this age of instant gratification the lessons children learn from studying dance go far beyond the acquiring of technique.  I only ever had a small career as a dancer, but it was enough for me and I have had a wonderful second performing career as a character artiste plus a very, very satisfying and successful career as a ballet teacher, which I have been able to combine with marriage and children.  I do think that it might have been better for Miko to have joined a smaller company where she could have made her mark  more significantly than as a corps member in a big company.

 

I don't know if any of you have seen the film Turning Point with Shirley Maclaine and Anne Bancroft?  Bancroft comes to perform as ballerina to Maclaine's small home town where she and her husband run a ballet school.  Basically Bancroft is ageing and beginning to lose roles to younger dancers. Unmarried, no children and lonely she's jealous of Maclaine's character who has those. Maclaine of course is jealous of Bancroft's success as a ballerina.   It's a very moving comlicated plot and shows clearly that we all make our decisions and have to live with them or else change something........

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12 hours ago, Dance*is*life said:

I do think that it might have been better for Miko to have joined a smaller company where she could have made her mark  more significantly than as a corps member in a big company.

 

I don't know what would have worked better for Miko or if it would have made any difference but it raises an interesting point.

 

Tamara Rojo spoke at the Prix de Lausanne back in 2013.  She said that she joined the Scottish Ballet after the Prix  despite offers from bigger companies.  She opted to be "the head of the mouse rather than the tail of a lion".  You might say a big fish in a small pond. There she learned the repertoire and danced big roles early on.  She was individually coached and rose through the ranks quickly.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcLtKTrdXIs

 

 

Similarly, I met a young lady last week who told me that she had many offers from famous schools after a comp win.  She did not choose the most famous one.  After her visits to audition she had felt the best vibe at another school and went there.  It did work out well for her. Given that she was going to live abroad away from family, the sense of support and the personal attention that the school appeared to offer (and did in fact provide) was a critical factor in her decision. 

 

So both ladies researched their options fully and then made - what turned out to be - the smart choice for them rather than the most obvious or glamorous. 

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