GCSE Dance - any thoughts?

[taxi4ballet]

My DD still wants to do it but I do think she'll regret it, the dance teacher doesn't seem to like anyone trained in classical ballet apparently ( I've been pre warned by others already)

Run for the hills!

[invisiblecircus]

My fear about my daughter being bored is that if you can take GCSE dance without ever having any proper lessons then surely these children will have to be taught 'some ' steps in order for it to look like a dance and not just jumping around? While these children are being taught proper dance moves then surely the others that are inter standard and above will be bored? Isn't it a bit like me not knowing how to play an instrument then being taught a few notes and expected to create an amazing piece of music? In GCSE music you have to be a certain standard which I feel gives it much more credibility as an exam. Just my own personal opinion and concerns!

 

GCSE dance is not about learning "proper" dance moves, it's more about creative dance and is not comparable to GCSE music.

 

Part of it's value in terms of skills is learning different ways of choreographing by using various stimuli to create motifs which can then be arranged into a piece using different choreographic devices. The study of professional works builds on this and can be likened more to English literature than music IMO.

 

There have been several comments on this and other similar threads where teachers have been said not to like ballet but I think the problem is that sometimes, coming from a very strong traditional dance background can be a stumbling block to the kind of creativity called for at GCSE. This is because these students are used to performing "proper" dance moves and can find it difficult to get past that whereas inexperienced students sometimes find it easier to let go and create movement which isn't any particular step.

 

I've taught and choreographed for a number of youth dance groups and companies from high profile ones which recruit from competitive auditions to groups which include dancers from strong technical backgrounds alongside those with no formal experience and groups made up entirely of inexperienced (and in some cases disinterested) teenagers. Each experience has been rewarding in its own way and wonderful pieces can be created with untrained dancers.

 

I think GCSE dance teaches key skills which are useful for a number of career pathways in dance as well as more general skills for other careers.

[taxi4ballet]

Invisiblecircus, I agree and had it been taught like that to my dd, then her experience would, I am sure, have been quite different. 

 

Her experience was:

 

a - being told her technique was all wrong and that she had to forget all her ballet training if she was to be any good at contemporary

 

b - everyone told in class that all ballet dancers will become anorexic and suffer from crippled feet

 

c - being told that she has a lack of commitment to dance (which made her cry with frustration)

 

d - seeing active and continued favouritism towards one particular other student, which went on for 3 years and still continues

 

e - that she'd never get anywhere unless she could show a bit more dedication - despite dancing 4 evenings a week after school, associates all day Saturdays and every other Sunday, competing in the Genee Dance Challenge, performing with a full scholarship from EYB and passing her Adv 2 with a good merit in the first term she was old enough (and taking it just two terms after a distinction in Adv 1)

 

f - being told that ballet dancers were never any good at choreography because their training was far too structured and rigid

 

g - that doing ballet, modern, jazz, tap and contemporary wasn't enough, she needed to do something like street as well

 

h - continually overlooked when it came to displays and demonstrations

 

i - finding that every teacher, department and all the admin staff were all really kind, supportive and helpful, and ask how she was doing - all except the dance department

 

j - no interest or support with how she was getting on with her vocational auditions (all 11 of them, including finals) and getting no praise at all when she had 5 offers

 

k - being moaned at for not choreographing something during the summer holidays last year and that the excuse ofbeing too busy with three weeks of summer schools and a one- week course at the RAD in London (and a 1-week family holiday) wasn't enough of an excuse

 

l - having to choreograph a dance based on one of the set works, despite never even seeing a video clip of it

 

I could go on and on like this for some time, but what's the point? She's left now!

[Harwel]

Wow Taxi! That sounds like one very threatened teacher with a big fat chip on her shoulder. The very worst kind of teacher.

[Legseleven]

I think serious dance students who either aren't particularly academic or who have the chance to take what is probably for them a 'relaxing' subject at GCSE - or as has been said who want an almost guaranteed A* at GCSE, as with the vocational dance school students doing GCSE Dance - might enjoy GCSE Dance. It does concern me however that no dance experience is necessary, as I genuinely cannot see how a non-dancer could possibly consider that they have achieved a 'dance' qualification through it and perhaps it should really be called GCSE Choreography as has already been suggested.

 

DD is very academic and would not have considered GCSE Dance had it been offered at her school, even with a dance teacher teaching it. Her view is that she dances outside school and her achievements in dance are officially 'worth' more than GCSE qualifications (and have been since she was 9 or 10), so what would be the point of potential frustration through studying for GCSE Dance with non-dancers and possibly taught by a non-dancer? A little like studying for GCSE PE with those who don't do sport. 

[Harwel]

Maybe a good title would be 'dance appreciation'.

[lilacfairy]

I think serious dance students who either aren't particularly academic or who have the chance to take what is probably for them a 'relaxing' subject at GCSE - or as has been said who want an almost guaranteed A* at GCSE, as with the vocational dance school students doing GCSE Dance - might enjoy GCSE Dance. It does concern me however that no dance experience is necessary, as I genuinely cannot see how a non-dancer could possibly consider that they have achieved a 'dance' qualification through it and perhaps it should really be called GCSE Choreography as has already been suggested.

 

DD is very academic and would not have considered GCSE Dance had it been offered at her school, even with a dance teacher teaching it. Her view is that she dances outside school and her achievements in dance are officially 'worth' more than GCSE qualifications (and have been since she was 9 or 10), so what would be the point of potential frustration through studying for GCSE Dance with non-dancers and possibly taught by a non-dancer? A little like studying for GCSE PE with those who don't do sport.

 

[lilacfairy]

Well I disagree, my DD is a serious dance student, has completed all the R AD vocational exams and is very academic at school.This GCSE dance is not a n easy option, there is a lot of written work and I would say for someone who wants to go into the dance profession it can only compliment their training.You study about different choreographers and learn how to choreograph a group dance amongst other things , so what if some students aren't at your standard its all good experience working with people at different levels you never know when you have to put this into practice!

[taxi4ballet]

The course itself is a good one, but, as with many things, the teachers are they key element.

 

If your dc was (for instance) playing with the Manchester United youth team, would you expect their PE teacher to criticise their dedication to sport? If they were exhibiting their paintings at the Royal Academy, would they be upset if their art teacher told them that they were never going to get anywhere because they weren't keeping up with their GCSE Art coursework? If they were perhaps performing in a West End musical or cast in a television series, would they be disappointed if their GCSE Drama teacher never once showed the slightest interest or asked how they were getting on? 

[lilacfairy]

Obviously your experience is still pretty raw

[Legseleven]

I'm sure there is a lot of written work, lilacfairy, as I would expect there to be in any GCSE subject and I didn't suggest that GCSE Dance was an easy option - although trained dance students will almost certainly find it much easier that those who haven't had dance training. I'm sure that as I suggested, your academic daughter does find it relaxing to study dance from a different angle, especially having completed the RAD vocational exams - she must be a fabulous dancer! -  and I'm also sure that as you say, the choreography experience involved will be invaluable if she wishes to make dance her career. Choreographing for untrained/less advanced students will indeed assist in all walks of life as there are always different ability and skills levels in any group of people and therefore adjustments and allowances must be made.That's why I think that the GCSE should perhaps be re-named Choreography (invisiblecircus's very informative post at 68 seems to lean towards suggesting that it is in fact a choreography qualification rather than a dance one, unless I have misunderstood it) or Dance Appreciation as Harwel suggested. I simply cannot understand why a student who has had no dance training and may have been taught by a teacher who isn't trained and qualified in dance can legitimately believe that they hold a 'dance' qualification because they have a GCSE in Dance. 

[2dancersmum]

I think the course and content of GCSE dance is very good and does present an interesting challenge to the student , dancer or not.  There is no GCSE dance at younger DDs school so it was not an option, although ironically one of the PE teachers took ballet herself up to adv 2. It does seem to me though that it is one of the subjects that can suffer more than others because of the teacher and the students.  Schools would not dream of hiring a teacher to teacher Physics or Maths without them being qualified to do so but a PE teacher seems to have to cover just about any sport (and dance).   Some PE teachers will be very good, others not so and you do get some that are very dismissive of students dance activities outside of school.  And then there are the students! Lack of experience is not necessarily the problem so much as why a student chooses dance as a GCSE option in the first place.  Some will choose it as perceive it to be the easy option - history or dance - which do they think will be easier and have more relaxed and fun lessons - dance of course.  If they have no real interest in the subject and it is just a filler in the timetable for them, it makes the job of the teacher so much harder also.  My DDS have found this in drama - there is always a percentage who choose drama as an 'easy option' and want to mess around in lessons as they have no real interest.  Both are subjects also where there is generally no streaming by ability and yet actually neither are actually easy subjects but the teacher has a very mixed bag of students and abilities to deal with.  One year the dance course may be brilliant - the next poor - depending on who teachers and that intake of students

[aileen]

The other thing is that with most optional subjects students may well be steered away from those which they are weak at. Some schools are quite strict about GCSE options. At my DD's school a student was told that s/he might not be able to take Latin GCSE because his/her year 9 end of year exam results were poor. If students' aptitude for dance is not tested before the end of year 9 then there can be students who are totally unsuited to the course starting GCSE dance in year 10 and it may not be possible for them to change course because of the school timetable.

[lilacfairy]

Not every one who teaches GCSE dance is untrained or unqualified to teach dance or a PE teacher. Legseleven as you said your DD wasn't considering it even if it was an option , well you certainly seem to be an expert on the content of the course!

[invisiblecircus]

Choreographing for untrained/less advanced students will indeed assist in all walks of life as there are always different ability and skills levels in any group of people and therefore adjustments and allowances must be made.That's why I think that the GCSE should perhaps be re-named Choreography (invisiblecircus's very informative post at 68 seems to lean towards suggesting that it is in fact a choreography qualification rather than a dance one, unless I have misunderstood it) or Dance Appreciation as Harwel suggested. I simply cannot understand why a student who has had no dance training and may have been taught by a teacher who isn't trained and qualified in dance can legitimately believe that they hold a 'dance' qualification because they have a GCSE in Dance. 

 

I didn't mean to suggest that. Candidates are examined on dance appreciation (written,) performance of a set piece, performance of a group piece or duet and choreography. I think "Dance" is a fair name for the course as it covers all aspects of the specification.

 

My previous post focussed on choreography because people were complaining that their experienced dancing children were having to perform in pieces alongside untrained dancers (and thus not demonstrating their full technical ability) or had to choreograph on students who don't know any formal dance steps.

 

You made a good point about choreographing for different abilities being a good skill to learn for all walk of life but further than that, if you want a career in dance you may find yourself having to do that at some point and the more experience you've had beforehand, the easier it will be. Lot of dancers these days have portfolio careers and even on a professional performing contract with a company you might find yourself going into secondary schools as one point delivering workshops and being expected to produce a quality piece with untrained dancers!

 

Also, I think trained dancers are at an advantage for the set piece but as I wrote before, not necessarily for the choreography. GCSE encourages a completely different approach to choreography and coming from a background of years of formal ballet classes can sometimes make it harder for those students as they have to completely change their approach to choreography.

 

For sure, GCSE dance is COMPLETELY different from an RAD ballet qualification, but it's a legitimate qualification all the same.

[invisiblecircus]

The other thing is that with most optional subjects students may well be steered away from those which they are weak at. Some schools are quite strict about GCSE options. At my DD's school a student was told that s/he might not be able to take Latin GCSE because his/her year 9 end of year exam results were poor. If students' aptitude for dance is not tested before the end of year 9 then there can be students who are totally unsuited to the course starting GCSE dance in year 10 and it may not be possible for them to change course because of the school timetable.

 

I think it would be quite unusual for a school to offer GCSE dance as an option without having some kind of dance teaching in the lower school. I also think you are misunderstanding the significance of aptitude for dance within the context of the GCSE specification. Students from different backgrounds in dance are going to be advantaged in different aspects of the course, but everyone can gain something from it.

[taxi4ballet]

Students with less experience might well be the ones who are able to come up with the most original ideas for choreography.

[aileen]

Well, we've already made our decision about GCSE dance but it's interesting to read other people's opinions and I hope that this thread will be useful to other people considering this subject as an option in the future. I conclude from the discussion:

 

(a) that it's important to have a teacher who has a background in dance;

 

( that intensive ballet training is not necessarily an advantage (and could even be a disadvantage unless the student has studied other dance genres);

 

© that the curriculum has value in terms of team work, learning how to choreograph a dance piece (perhaps for inexperienced dancers) and the study of (probably contemporary) works by established choreographers;

 

(d) that preparation and rehearsals for the performance modules can be time consuming, particularly if you are paired with less committed classmates (which can be an issue if the GCSE is studied during the school day rather than as a twilight subject); and

 

(e) that serious ballet students may not actually shine in GCSE dance and, consequently, may not get a high mark however strong their classical ballet is as evidenced by their marks in grade and vocational exams.

 

I hope that this is a fair summary of what has turned out to be quite a lengthy discussion.

Edited July 7, 2015 by aileen

[Legseleven]

Lilacfairy, I seem to have annoyed you for which I sincerely apologise. I hope your DD is loving her GCSE Dance course alongside her ballet studies, just as mine is loving her music course alongside her ballet. (Mine is doing RAD Advanced 1 with some Advanced 2 classes at present, so I am in awe of your DD having completed the vocational exams alongside GCSEs, she must be very talented!)

 

In response to your post at number 80 above, I didn't say that everyone teaching GCSE Dance was 'untrained or unqualified to teach dance or a PE teacher', only that some of those teachers may indeed have no qualifications or training in dance, as per the last sentence of my post at 77.

 

I also stated in post 77 that I could have misunderstood invisiblecircus's post about the content of the syllabus and she has since pointed out that I did indeed misunderstand it. I am more than happy to stand corrected in that regard!

 

It seems that aileen's post at 84 above is a fair summary of the discussions?

[Cherry]

I totally agree with Huddsballetmum. I would like to show high schools the comments, when I'm trying to get the Head Teacher and/or teachers to offer GCSE Dance. I was at a pre-show talk recently of LC3, and one of the things they ask at auditions is for the prospective student to talk about their solo, in terms of the stimulus and process. Something a GCSE Dance student would have no trouble doing. There are very many valuable things to learn and experience with GCSE Dance, even if the students are not going on to dance college. I too, get on my high horse where GCSE Dance is concerned!

[sarahw]

I think a lot of this will come down to your personal taste in 'The Arts'. I, for example, am not fond of any art form where a long wordy description of the art (picture, sculpture, dance) is required. I like it to be intuitive. I suspect I would not get on with GCSE dance by the sound of it. ....

[taxi4ballet]

I think a lot of this will come down to your personal taste in 'The Arts'. I, for example, am not fond of any art form where a long wordy description of the art (picture, sculpture, dance) is required. I like it to be intuitive. I suspect I would not get on with GCSE dance by the sound of it. ....

I'm just the same - with English Literature. I love reading. It's unusual for me to go more than a day or two without having my nose in one book or another, but analysing it paragraph-by-paragraph, being told how I should interpret the author's intentions, having to explain why the author used this word instead of that one - all of that does nothing for me. I just like to read the thing!

[Jan McNulty]

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know of any Adult Education Centres that offer GCSE dance?

 

 

I'm just the same - with English Literature. I love reading. It's unusual for me to go more than a day or two without having my nose in one book or another, but analysing it paragraph-by-paragraph, being told how I should interpret the author's intentions, having to explain why the author used this word instead of that one - all of that does nothing for me. I just like to read the thing!

 

Me too!  I did Wuthering Heights, Julius Caesar and WW1 poetry for O level and hated every single word of every one of them because of the way we had to try and analyse them.  The final hurdle has been jumped this year as I reread Wuthering Heights for the first time since my O levels and enjoyed it!!

[taxi4ballet]

Tried the same with Jane Eyre, but nope!

[Lifeafterballet]

Don't the RAD offer GCSE and A level Dance ?

[taxi4ballet]

Yes they do - and I imagine that the teaching there (and at the vocational schools offering them) might be somewhat different to the average secondary school.

[Guest]

I would just like to add my opinion here I having done gcse dance and as dance and doing a2 next year along with other subjects and vocational school auditions, the experience really depends on how your child reacts and the class and teacher. I did one year of the gcse course at the rad in London, starting off with an extremely large class, in my opinion substandard teaching and an unorganised timetable. The class wase early on a Saturday morning and always started late with long breaks that no one needed, and by the end of the year I had completed next to no work that would prove of any use when trying to do the graded pieces and exam the next year.

In contrast I moved to a local school for the second year doing the course one evening a week in a class of 8, was told to completely disregard what I had been taught already and worked very hard putting in extra hours to catch up and came out with nearly full marks in most of the practical elements. We also got the opportunity to perform in local shows with our gcse pieces.

 

I do feel that it is unfair to say that classical dancers have no chance as I have been a member of London senior ballet, danced with eyb, competed in the genne challenge, won rad awards days and competitions and held a place at tring cba for many years. I actually feel that gcse and as dance have pushed me to become a more versatile dancer and consider contemporary training at 18.

Being in a class of 4 for the as course in a fairly unknown school I have still managed to achieve full marks in the solo section and nearly full in the group(only due to slipping on the different floor)

 

I understand that mine may be a unusual case but with the very high grade boundriessI do believe that to do well you have to be good at dance and have creative choreographic ideas, aswell as being reasonably academic if you want to do well in the written section.

I mean this in no way as a rant, just to share my experience of it and to say that as a classically trained dancer at a top 5% academic school I feel that gcse dance was a more valid option for me that others I took such as spanish.

[Yorkshire Pud]

Very well done littleballerina for achieving such good grades. Good luck with your A2 Level Dance.

[aileen]

I did not stay that serious ballet students (classical dancers) had 'no chance'. I said that a background in ballet *might not* be an advantage and *could be* a disadvantage, particularly if the student had not done other genres of dance, as the choreography for GCSE dance is contemporary in style.

[YellowCar]

Isn't ballet the foundation of all dance, including contemporary, so how could being classically trained possibly be considered a disadvantage? If you are going to call it GCSE 'dance' then to me ballet should be considered very much an advantage and should be encouraged not frowned upon by 'dance'(or in some unfortunate cases PE) teachers.

[Nancy19]

Am after some advice for my DD, she is currently yr 9 and they have started to look at GCSE options. She is 'known' as a dancer at her school and has been told by her form teacher that they expect her to take dance as an option. She has never been sure whether she is keen to choose it, but now feels under pressure to take it. The school only ever has a handful of children taking GCSE dance think the maximum was 5, and they achieve good results. My daughter is grade 7 RAD, advanced 1 and attends 2 associate schemes. She's hoping to audition for vocational school at 16, so will not having GCSE dance go against her? Personally I would rather her stick to academics but she feels she owes the school to do it. (They've always supported her ballet, from auditions, exams and EYB / LCB performances). Any advice gratefully received.

Thank you x

[Gowiththeflo]

I can't offer any advice, i'm afraid, -(dd is in yr 7) but interested to know why having gcse dance would go against her for vocational school? Surely her achievements with associates/EYB /LCB etc means she's as good a chance as any...... And don't they take gcse dance at vocational schools anyway? ????

[Gowiththeflo]

Sorry-nancy 19- think i completely got the opposite of what you meant!!!!! The perils of my regional dialect when reading.......or the glass of wine........????

Apologies! ????