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funding, why's it all so unfair?


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sorry, all I seem to do lately is rant about something or other on here! Auditioning for places is hard enough as it is but with the added stress and worry of how on earth me and my family will afford a place if I got it is so so stressful! It makes me angry that the government funding system makes it almost impossible for anyone who earns an average/low wage to be able to afford to pay tuition and living fees. we are called 'elitists' and our chosen career path has apparently 'no benefit to society'. Would they dream of telling a medical student "sorry you can't afford the tuition fees tough luck go and chose something else" I think that would be met by far more public criticism! just wish there was something we could do about it. so many work exceptionally hard to earn their places to be slapped in the face by the government because there's no financial assistance for parents! it really is ridiculous and something really needs to be done! would really love to campaign about this but what good would it ever do, the government seem to be trying to completely eradicate the arts in Britain!

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Rant on, Ana! It was worth saying and worth reading. All my family are heavily into the arts in different ways and our lives would be much poorer without them. Mind you, scientists are very under appreciated here too - they are paid the lowest salaries in Europe which is why so many of them leave for America. That too is our loss.

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I certainly don`t envy the young ones doing their training in this day and age. In the 1980`s there seemed,rightly or wrongly,to be so much more money about for everything. Sadly,just in the last few days I heard on the news that the government are going to cut funding for cancer treatment. If they are not prepared to pay/can`t afford to pay to help save people`s lives,what hope do performing arts students have in relation to funding priorities?

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It's just so sad that so much money is, dare I say it, wasted on unnecessary things in this country and not on the things that really matter  

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Everything costs it's very difficult financially. Going to university costs a fortune, fees, cost of living etc. I don't see why my daughter would be more deserving than her brother who is at uni to get funding from the government. It would be lovely if they both got it. We are in short supply of scientists, engineers and mathemeticians in Britain, yet the government doesn't help them either. The government is happy to fund weapons etc but now we're getting political.

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If they were to make it like degrees,and just change it so 16 year olds could get a student loan to pay for all their fees and accommodation etc.Then pay it back once they are earning. Why should it just be the dance students doing a degree who get all this funding?

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I just think every student who choses to go into further education whether it be a university degree, vocational dance training, music training etc should get the same funding. But obviously that's just my opinion

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sorry didn't mean to start anything. Wasn't implying dance students were more entitled than anybody else at all!

Edited by Guest
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annaballerina you haven't started anything. Years ago when I was a student there was more grants and funding available for all further education courses. That was back in the day though and I can't see the situation improving.

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I posted this on another website a while ago

 

"The funding for level 6 needs to be standardised into the degree/student funding system with none of this nonsense about "top-ups" as they are 'private' colleges.

& imo they need to decide if they are dance/performing colleges & do it on audition or if they are academic institutions & they do it on UCAS points - a combination of both seems odd to me."

 

Obviously I was talking about Musical Theatre but it's the same isue.

 

Despite the fact that DD is hoping to benefit from the DaDA (& I realise this is two faced) I do worry about a coutry that gives people money to train & perform and loans people money to become Nurses, Doctors, Solicitors and all major career paths

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I think what you perhaps have to remember Katymac is that universities are public institutions that do receive government funding and that is the reason that fees at university are capped ie the courses are already part funded and the student get the loan for the balance between government paid portion and actual cost but capped at the rate dictated by the government. Private colleges are precisely that - private - they receive no government funding - so some students get a DADA and students/parents have to pay the balance.

 

It does not mean the system is fair - but it is complex. And don't forget that there are private universities in this country offering normal academic subjects that are if they are allowed student loans they are at the lesser amount and students need to 'top up'

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It does all seem unfair but so does the fact that my daughter (doing a 5 year vet degree) will have £60,000 of debt when she graduates (and we're helping too because the loan doesn't cover all her accommodation and living expenses).

Edited by JulieW
Edited to change "living" from "loving" - although amusing!
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It is unfair, Julie and it will take her an age to pay back while working very hard. 

 

My DD, by contrast will (hopefully) receive funding to do hers (& we will top up too) and probably won't earn as much initally as your DD & will then in 10-15 years retrain & borrow money to do so & spend the rest of her life paying that back too.

 

I personally think all students should be entitled to 3 years funded education in what ever subject they chose (plus maintenance) and then they pay (through loans) after that

 

But most graduates will need to retrain 2 or 3 times over their lifetime in order to stay in work & I don't know how to fund that

 

The whole of educaton in the country needs an overhaul from Early Years through to uni funding

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It does all seem unfair but so does the fact that my daughter (doing a 5 year vet degree) will have £60,000 of debt when she graduates (and we're helping too because the loan doesn't cover all her accommodation and loving expenses).

"Loving expenses" Julie? Sorry, had a little chuckle at that....

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Another point to add is if the government and tax payers are going to fund UK children, then surely there should be more jobs for them in their own country, but there isn't. There are plenty of jobs in our country for scientists, teachers, vets, mathematicians etc.

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We can't stop our graduates from leaving, but why are they leaving in the first place? In a lot of countries such as Australia and America, they are only allowed to recruit someone outside their country if they can't recruit from their own citizens. The government should be looking at companies that receive funding to see how many home trained students they are employing. If they want to employ outside our country fine, but should they really be getting our precious funding. A huge amount of money is spent on MDS's for talented children and yet they are not talented enough to be employed by their own country? It is all very political, and I am certainly not saying we shouldn't be employing outside our own country. But I would like our dancers who have had tax payers money to be considered fairly, or trained to the correct requirements of what companies are looking for.

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This may appear off topic, but I think it is relevant.  Funding of certain training, such as dancers, vets, doctors, nurses are very specific to the following career.  However, this is actually unusual - most degree courses are purely to train the mind to a certain level.  The following career often has nothing to do with the subject studied.  Did anyone watch the Christmas University Challenge programmes with famous older graduates of the institutions.  They each announced what they had studied and what their subsequent career had been, I found it fascinating that so often there was little relationship between the two!  So on what basis should funding be decided for different types of courses?  What I am trying to say is that just because you have a degree as a dancer, it doesn't have to mean that your career will have to be as a dancer.

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sorry, all I seem to do lately is rant about something or other on here! Auditioning for places is hard enough as it is but with the added stress and worry of how on earth me and my family will afford a place if I got it is so so stressful! It makes me angry that the government funding system makes it almost impossible for anyone who earns an average/low wage to be able to afford to pay tuition and living fees. we are called 'elitists' and our chosen career path has apparently 'no benefit to society'. Would they dream of telling a medical student "sorry you can't afford the tuition fees tough luck go and chose something else" I think that would be met by far more public criticism! just wish there was something we could do about it. so many work exceptionally hard to earn their places to be slapped in the face by the government because there's no financial assistance for parents! it really is ridiculous and something really needs to be done! would really love to campaign about this but what good would it ever do, the government seem to be trying to completely eradicate the arts in Britain!

 

I understand your frustration anaballerina, but I can assure you that there are plenty of young people who are unable to follow other career paths such as medicine because of the financial requirements. Remember there are no grants as such, it's all loans, and as JulieW has already said, the loans don't cover anything like the full costs. The situation is dire for many people. Take my niece and her husband - both graduated with good degrees and working in what people would generally consider "sensible" jobs, but with 8 years worth of student debt between them and a young family they have no prospect of buying a house in the foreseeable  future as they can't save enough for a deposit. That would have been unheard of when I was their age, but sadly it seems to be the norm nowadays. Many young people who are working incredibly hard in all kinds of spheres are struggling. It's rotten, and i do sympathise, but this issue isn't confined to dancers.

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though I think it perhaps important to remember that student finance is also dependent on family income.  The loan for fees may be available for all university students but the maintenance loan is part for all and part income assessed and for incomes of less than £42k approx. there are grants available, which do not need paying back.

 

regardless of what subject is taken, as has been said already, higher education is an expensive route

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I think you were perfectly right to post your feelings here ana. I would say it's the perfect place for it. I was ballet trained then when had to stop dancing I went into education, studied for a law degree and couldn't believe the different level of respect I got from when I was dancing - both from my tutors and the general public and yet I always felt that it was far harder training to be a dancer than a lawyer and subsequently a chartered tax advisor. The financial aspect is one thing - and I think our country has it very wrong with the way higher education is funded (not that I know what the right way is - our NHS also needs lots of money! I am certainly not a political person). I just think there needs to be greater appreciation of our artistically talented people. I struggle to understand why educational ability is deemed more impressive than artistic or indeed practical skills. All things are needed to make our world , all have a different place. Talent, hard work and dedication should be celebrated in whatever field they are found.

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I agree with Janet & Harwel - it's important that young adults understand the way things happen and protest about them.  The only thing I would suggest is that as soon as you are old enough you start voting in elections. 

 

So many people don't vote and then complain about the system - if you haven't tried to change it you can't complain about it (imo)

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Don't think I should have posted my feelings in here they seem to have caused something I didn't intend

anaballerina,please don`t think that you have in any way done anything wrong about posting your feelings. You have every right to do so,the same as everyone else on here. I re-read your comments and could find nothing upsetting,controversial or offensive about any of them. Personally I thought your opinions were perfectly valid.

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