balletla Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes good point about loneliness. Your social life is probably restricted to just a handful of your peers within the ballet company with no real opportunity to meet people outside that as you are working all day in rehearsals and performing all night. No wonder ballet dancers are all just married to each other. It's also not a great career for any woman that wants a family. Beginning to wonder why anyone would want to do at this rate....... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Tulip - have you noticed whether age comes into it. Are those who started at 16 more likely to be giving up, or is it those who started when older, or is there not any particular pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's a mix PDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes good point about loneliness. Your social life is probably restricted to just a handful of your peers within the ballet company with no real opportunity to meet people outside that as you are working all day in rehearsals and performing all night. No wonder ballet dancers are all just married to each other. It's also not a great career for any woman that wants a family. Beginning to wonder why anyone would want to do at this rate....... That's true of a ballet company but as a freelancer you're with the same group of people for a rehearsal and performance period, then when the project is over you all move on to something else so you never get to form close ties with anyone. Add Into this mix little or no help from schools in the consideration of next steps, students just left to flounder. Many dancers might still 'want it' but are left with nothing despite being good enough. Yes, you go along with the flow every day at school, then auditioning for companies is just a part of that. But what if you don't get a contract? Your course ends, you leave school, you have to figure it out for yourself now but you're not taught how to do that. One of my friends, on failing to get a contract, became an air hostess and has never danced again! It's obviously individual, but I can imagine that the constant assessment, scrutiny and criticism can just get you down after a while and these students realise that their life is always going to be like this. It's worrying if students feel that they have to keep going because they don't know what else to do / aren't good at anything else. There are lots of options out there but in the bubble of vocational school it is probably harder to find out about them. I think many students (me included) thrive on the assessments and scrutiny. Rather than seeing it as a criticism, it becomes a challenge! You want to prove the teachers wrong, but sometimes without thinking about whether the end result will make YOU happy. It comes back to what I wrote previously about focussing too much on the next assessment or performance and having graduation as your goal rather than the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Some schools allow ex students to come & take class whilst auditioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think that personality comes into it. If you are a 'glass half empty', self-doubting type of person then the scrutiny and criticism probably affects you more negatively than if you are an upbeat, confident person. Most people these days seem to meet their partners and spouses at or through work and so dancers are no different to anyone else in this respect. If you work at a large company it is probably alright but if you are in a small one it probably is a bit limited socially but, again, that is the case for many people doing other jobs - although the difference is that they are not working many evenings and weekends (some are, of course). As for what students do if they haven't got a contract on graduation, do schools not give them any advice or help at all? Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but companies frequently want extra dancers for certain productions or part of a season. ENB took on extra dancers for their last Autumn tour and the Coliseum season which has just ended and I've seen adverts for temporary contracts with companies in Europe as well. It seems to be productions of Swan Lake, Nutcracker and Giselle which require extra dancers, and I noticed that sometimes the companies advertise for dancers quite a short time before rehearsals start. These temporary contracts are a way of keeping dancing and there is always a chance that if the company likes you they will offer you a permanent contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A lot of dance positions will be abroad, and this might be daunting/exciting (depending on your viewpoint!) If you're, say, moving to Romania as a young person, entirely on your own, without speaking a word of the language, knowing no-one, having to prove yourself as a newbie in a dance company, and having to fend for yourself - working out how to deal with the utility companies and all that kind of stuff - that is quite a big step. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 A lot of the companies are asking for experienced dancers, and they're not big companies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That is the Catch 22 - many companies ask for experience, but how do you get it in the first place if few companies hire recent graduates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A lot of dance positions will be abroad, and this might be daunting/exciting (depending on your viewpoint!) If you're, say, moving to Romania as a young person, entirely on your own, without speaking a word of the language, knowing no-one, having to prove yourself as a newbie in a dance company, and having to fend for yourself - working out how to deal with the utility companies and all that kind of stuff - that is quite a big step. Yes, absolutely. I think that a lot of students who train in the UK, dream of entering one of the top British companies but as you say, joining a company abroad is a very different experience. I trained abroad, and even though I spoke the language decently and didn't have to deal with finding a place to live or deal with bills etc, I still felt very overwhelmed with having to deal with everything in a different language. How much more difficult it must be for someone who is leaving the security and routine of a school to having to take care of themselves, find accomodation and deal with many other things for the first time in an unfamiliar culture and a language they don't speak at all. That's way out of a lot of people's comfort zone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That is the Catch 22 - many companies ask for experience, but how do you get it in the first place if few companies hire recent graduates! Many schools offer significant performing experience in the final year which goes some way to providing the experience companies ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Rowan, it *is* daunting but that is what many overseas students do at 16 when they come to the UK upper schools. Many companies use English these days. Certainly Dutch National Ballet does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I suppose that another thing is that dance is an all-or-nothing occupation. You can't take a gap year between leaving school and starting a course, and once you graduate, you can't spend a couple of years doing something else before deciding that you do want to carry on with your original career path. My nephew did A-levels and then took a year out travelling. He then went to university and did his law degree, but when he finished he decided that law wasn't for him, got a job in a shop and worked there for several years. After all that he eventually decided that law was what he wanted to do after all, and now has a job. There's no way on Earth a dancer could take a similar path. Once they decide to stop for a breather, the rollercoaster goes on without them and they can't get back on again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 But there's a difference between being in the protected environment of a school and living as an independent adult as part of a company abroad, even if the company uses English as the lingua franca. And woudn't living in, say, the Netherlands or Germany be "easier" than living in, say, Romania or Latvia? If you're a Brit, that is. I suppose I am really thinking of the language barriers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It is probably marinally easier for other nationalities to study, live and work in English-speaking countries such as the UK and America, since many people across the world learn English as a second language. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Rowan, it *is* daunting but that is what many overseas students do at 16 when they come to the UK upper schools. Many companies use English these days. Certainly Dutch National Ballet does. Many companies do use English, but dancers will still find themselves in situations where the'll need to do something in the language of that country. Rent an apartment, go to the doctor, go shopping etc. English is widely spoken in some countries like Holland and Germany but in some others, not so much! Good point about overseas students coming to the UK at 16. Those students have obviously aimed to train in the UK though, maybe with the hope of dancing in a British company upon graduation and I think a lot of British students also have the same hope. They picture themeslves dancing in a British company and don't always think about the realities of dancing abroad when applying for a 6th form place at 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) But upper schools are generally not boarding schools; the students live in hostels or flats and have to look after themselves. I do feel that we Brits are generally a bit insular and are more reluctant to go and work abroad than our European cousins. Perhaps the schools should be a bit more upfront about the likelihood of having to abroad for a job on graduation; after all, there are only about a dozen jobs (if that) available in the UK companies each year and, unfortunately, some of the companies seem to prefer to recruit dancers from other companies rather than new graduates for their artist positions. Edited January 21, 2015 by aileen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I disagree the students in my daughters year know that they have to apply for lots of companies outside Britain as there are not enough companies at home. They are prepared for all of this as part of their degree course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That's good to hear, Tulip, It must be expensive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Talking of being insular, funnily enough years ago when I first posed our conundrum about sending DS to vocational school abroad parents on this site were almost overwhelmingly in support of giving it a go...... on the USA website it was totally the other way- the majority just couldn't understand why we weren't only looking at UK (especially since UK has some prestigious vocational schools). DS says in his school there is a lot of support for USA auditions, YAGP and so on, but he has only been supported to go to Lausanne and audition at European companies as he has always been very clear he wants to come home to Europe. Some of his friends talk wistfully about dancing in Europe but don't seem to have a clue how to go about making that a reality, nor does the school seem to promote it as a possiblity. So we aren't the only (or the most) insular nation! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Up to know the German companies want experience and not heard back from other European countries yet. So not sure how much it will all cost. She's not bothering with big companies in America as she knows she won't get in, so not throwing money away there. Still very early days yet though. Ballet island wanted very experienced dancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Up to know the German companies want experience and not heard back from other European countries yet. So not sure how much it will all cost. She's not bothering with big companies in America as she knows she won't get in, so not throwing money away there. Still very early days yet though. Ballet island wanted very experienced dancers. Do you mean Ballet Ireland,Tulip,based in Dublin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes I think so thequas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophika9899 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Taxi4ballet you have hit the nail on the head there. Ballet is indeed an all or nothing career path and this was exactly my DDs point when deciding to leave Elmhurst after a term of 6th form. She tried to explain to me her reasons and they were that she would never be able to experience a year off. She wants to travel, see the world, go to uni, study, learn, meet different types of people. She felt that the world of ballet would not allow her to do this. She didn't want it enough to make the sacrifices that she would undoubtedly have to make. I must admit I was gutted at her decision but I sort of get it now. She also said, and I'm not quite sure how true this is, that there are plenty of dancers at vocational 6th form who actually have lost their desire to dance but can't quite bring themselves to tell their parents. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 DD would agree with that. She said that by the end of 1st year in 6th form practically everyone had decided whether they wanted to continue with dance as a career or not - but didn't tell anyone. Many left after A levels, some to continue training elsewhere, some to go to Uni or go to a crammer to get more A levels first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Taxi4ballet you have hit the nail on the head there. Ballet is indeed an all or nothing career path and this was exactly my DDs point when deciding to leave Elmhurst after a term of 6th form. She tried to explain to me her reasons and they were that she would never be able to experience a year off. She wants to travel, see the world, go to uni, study, learn, meet different types of people. She felt that the world of ballet would not allow her to do this. She didn't want it enough to make the sacrifices that she would undoubtedly have to make. I must admit I was gutted at her decision but I sort of get it now. She also said, and I'm not quite sure how true this is, that there are plenty of dancers at vocational 6th form who actually have lost their desire to dance but can't quite bring themselves to tell their parents. This is exactly one of the reasons I quit Urdang .Wanting to travel and see the world.I had been placed in the classical group,without being asked,and I realised that IF I were to suddenly muster the dedication from somewhere [which I never had] and be lucky enough to get into a classical company,I would be very poorly paid [as was the case in the eighties],and I would never see the world. SO I quit,went to the Moulin Rouge,where I WAS very well paid. I also spent three years dancing/living in various parts of Japan,6 months in Hong Kong,6 months in Greece,and also went to the Phillipines twice. So I got to see parts of the world in a way most people do not; I.E. living there for a period of time rather than visiting on holiday for 2 weeks. And was paid to do so.!! None of those places would have been available to me in a ballet company. Although having said that,in the eighties,it was far more common for a dancer in the UK to join a UK company than a foreign one. I suppose the ones who join foreign companies nowadays DO experience life in another country,so that has changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double trouble Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 the quays sounds like u made best decision and enjoyed your life , nice to hear. When my DD have up it was few reasons at 16 /17 she had no doubts about ballet being what she wanted even at 18 she wasn't bothered about socialising and would tell friends outside of her ballet sch that she didn't want to go out late as wasn't prepared to be tired for ballet class next morn ! However about 6 mths into being 18 doubts started especially about the money ! She realised dancers are on low wage and she wouldn't be having lovely hols like her 2 elder sisters who have good jobs . Also at her sch there were older dancers that had trained elsewhere and hadn't got into a company yet ! Which made her think how many years does it take. Obviously she lost the passion as well if you keep the passion you prob don't care about all the above . I have said to her I just hope you don't regret it ! I still find it hard that she gave up but it's her life and she has since told me that she wasn't eating properly and got to the stage that she hated her body in her leotard ! At least we let her follow her dream while it lasted. Good luck to all DC auditioning this year it doesn't seem fair to do so much training and for it to be so difficult but then lots of jobs are like that . My eldest is a Police Officer and they often get thousands of applicants ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double trouble Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Forgot to say she loved the first 2 yrs of training she performed in lovely theatres in London and was happy . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I imagine for many DC they feel terribly guilty about 'giving up', knowing how much their parents have invested/spent over the years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 My boy now thinking of giving up. On the plus side I will save a fortune and someone can have his RBS summer school place ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 How old is your DS, haggis? Why is he thinking about giving up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 He is 15 and seems to have fallen out of love with class,which he finds boring tho he still loves performance. GCSE stress? Possibly. I just want to support him as best I can whatever that means tho he doesn't know what he wants to do. He will certainly find normal s hook different from his current experience. It is a hard path... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Haggis is your ds at vocational school currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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