Monica Mason (and David Bintley), eating disorders and hiring dancers

[HAIRBELLES]

Well put Nana Lily......2 girls with very different tastes is hard enough to feed but a whole school I don't envy the cook with restricted budgets etc. At any age it is hard to resist the lure of junk and sweet foods ...............but for teachers to be making comments then school allowing them to have limitless amounts of tuck is sending mixed messages .......a lot more could be said but it is getting off the subject of this thread.

[Tulip]

Jellybeans I seem to be mis-understanding your post. You say that you think that it is healthy for children to eat crisps, biscuits and cake as part of a healthy eating and should be encouraged at all times. However you then go on to say that they should be part of a treat, which you say is something not consumed everyday. I work in early years, foods such as cake, biscuits, crisps are NOT allowed on the menu, except for a celebration such as Christmas party. Ofsted will give us a poor grade in the Staying Healthy section if these foods were part of the children's diet. Portion control again is a massive area. Practitioners are encouraged to serve the right portion for a child, but not allow seconds and thirds. A typical menu is Sheperds pie, vegetables and always afterwards they will have a selection of fruit. We do have quite a few little ones in my setting that would if you allowed them to, to eat and eat and not know when to stop. It is my job (and in early years we have worked closely with families in supporting each other) to actively promote healthy eating. The government have been really pushing this, and have provided lots and lots of courses for practitioners to tackle issues of obesity and how to promote healthy exercise and nutrition. It is up to the parents when the child goes home if they want to TREAT or allow as part of their menu cake, biscuits, crisps sugary drinks etc. I also have add that because these foods are not availabel at my nursery the children love tucking into the fruit, they are used to drinking milk or water, so do not expect to find fizzy or sugary drinks. We start right at the beginning with little ones in promoting good health, so where does it all go wrong. Ofcourse I do know this, but if in early years we are governed by Ofsted in promoting Staying Healthy, why do schools and independant schools (vocational) get away with it. SORRY for the rant everyone, but I have to say if the crisps, biscuits and cakes were freely available everyday they would be consumed in one day, and I mean that. Mind you so is all the fruit. Teenagers are like little ones, they munch away until somone tells them that they have had enough.

[Tulip]

Sorry I mean available everyday in my own home (then teenagers cost me a fortune he he).

[JulieW]

I don't have much to add to the subject, other than to say that one of the problems in the younger years at WL and Elmhurst (I can't speak for the others) is that they're actually not burning off as much energy as we might think. Ballet classes, particularly to start with, are quite "slow" affairs with everything being learnt slowly and carefully. I know lots of children find it quite a challenge to go from home where they were doing jazz, tap, PE at school (perhaps playing netball, football etc). And yes, I know they do more than just one ballet class a day for activity but it's still less than they were doing (and no walk to school either).

 

Also there's another thread about eating disorders etc here if you want to read what people have said before:

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/558-dt-article-on-ballet-and-eating-disorders/

[Jellybeans]

Jellybeans I seem to be mis-understanding your post. You say that you think that it is healthy for children to eat crisps, biscuits and cake as part of a healthy eating and should be encouraged at all times. However you then go on to say that they should be part of a treat, which you say is something not consumed everyday. I work in early years, foods such as cake, biscuits, crisps are NOT allowed on the menu, except for a celebration such as Christmas party. Ofsted will give us a poor grade in the Staying Healthy section if these foods were part of the children's diet. Portion control again is a massive area. Practitioners are encouraged to serve the right portion for a child, but not allow seconds and thirds. A typical menu is Sheperds pie, vegetables and always afterwards they will have a selection of fruit. We do have quite a few little ones in my setting that would if you allowed them to, to eat and eat and not know when to stop. It is my job (and in early years we have worked closely with families in supporting each other) to actively promote healthy eating. The government have been really pushing this, and have provided lots and lots of courses for practitioners to tackle issues of obesity and how to promote healthy exercise and nutrition. It is up to the parents when the child goes home if they want to TREAT or allow as part of their menu cake, biscuits, crisps sugary drinks etc. I also have add that because these foods are not availabel at my nursery the children love tucking into the fruit, they are used to drinking milk or water, so do not expect to find fizzy or sugary drinks. We start right at the beginning with little ones in promoting good health, so where does it all go wrong. Ofcourse I do know this, but if in early years we are governed by Ofsted in promoting Staying Healthy, why do schools and independant schools (vocational) get away with it. SORRY for the rant everyone, but I have to say if the crisps, biscuits and cakes were freely available everyday they would be consumed in one day, and I mean that. Mind you so is all the fruit. Teenagers are like little ones, they munch away until somone tells them that they have had enough.

 

Tulip, you have read my post incorrectly, or perhaps I was not clear because of the double use of he word "not".

 

"I do not see not eating crisps, biscuits cake and wine (although hopefully the letter does not apply to our children!!) as dieting. I see that as healthy eating to be encouraged at all times."

 

I meant that cutting out these things is not, to me, dieting as children shouldn't be eating them in the first place, other than as an ocassional treat.

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

I have always been keen to teach my dd right from the beginning that cakes, sweets, crisps etc are part of everyday life, and not to consider them as a special treat, or a reward for good behaviour.

 

She has never developed a sweet tooth, and doesn't crave things she isn't 'allowed'.

 

We wouldn't give a child broccoli as a treat, so why would we give them something unhealthy instead?

[Jellybeans]

I guess that everyone's idea of a great is different but the Oxford dictionary defines it thus:

 

noun

an event or item that is out of the ordinary and gives great pleasure:

he wanted to take her to the pictures as a treat

(one's treat) an act of treating someone to something:

‘My treat,’ he insisted, reaching for the bill

North American a sweet, biscuit, or other item of sweet food.

 

There is, I think, a difference between something being forbidden and thought of as bad and something that cannot do too much harm if eaten ocassionally.

[Tulip]

Some one asked earlier on in the thread, so how can we go forward? I believe that it is entirely up to the parent to provied tuck for their children, younger ones should not have open access to theirs (perhaps an agrement between house parent, parent's and the child). Going back to my earlier comments regarding early years, it is the responsibility for the schools to promote healthy eating. I have already said that the school my daughter goes to provides a good healthy balcnced diet. The problems there is that at lunch a healthy choice then a lovely pudding, afternoon tea cakes and biscuits, evening meal, good choice with a lovely pudding, common room fruit and lots of biscuits. The problem my daughter is having at the moment due to stress and exams is she can't leave the cakes and biscuits alone. This is beginning to upset her as she feels she is having too many but can't help herself. I have explained to her that this is normal and a lot of teenager find this area difficult. I believe that the schools should only provide lots and lots of fruit. Parents should provide the treats that is their choice. As professionals this is an area that can be controlled. These children are in the mirror every day in a leaotard, they look at themselves constantly, they may even look at each other. That is the world they live in, and that is why ED for SOME not all can easily be developed.

[primrose]

Tulip you have made some very relevant points. The schools shouldnt be providing the mass amounts of food that they do, and then criticise the children for gaining weight. As I keep saying its about educating the students from an early age about the correct foods and portion sizes. The schools should then lead by example. I remember when my dd was at the Hammond school and they served the children a really healthy main course followed by jelly and fruit. Brilliant. They didnt have to go on about it, but it was their way of controlling how much sugar the children were having. At the boarding houses the children were allowed toast and fruit and the house parents kept an eye on that aswell. Tuck was another issue though. However previous to my dd attending the Hammond she attended a private prep school. Tuck was only allowed twice a week and all the children ate it with the headmaster. If children had too many sweets then the head would control the amount they had and often they were encouraged to share their sweets with everybody else. They were the school rules and parents had to adhere to them. However at my sons prep school, some of the children would bring literally hampers back to the boarding house. When the head introduced brown bread to the menu, there was an uproar from the parents so the head had to revert back again. Seems to me that there is so much to be learnt by both adults and children.

[primrose]

How interesting, its on the BBC news today about Jamie Oliver and Liverpool striker Steven Gerrard, approaching government on how to tackle obesity and how they want to introduce cookery lessons into our schools.

[balletla]

I think this is a wider problem for society. People have forgotten how to eat normally and junk food is the norm. It is so refreshing when you go abroad, even to France or Italy, to see that ready meals etc. barely exist and most people shop daily for fresh food which is cooked that night. Something I would dearly love to get back to if me and my husband weren't both working for 10 hours a day to make ends meet!

[tomuchtallent]

At our school there is breakfast lunch and then snack,no packed lunch allowed or sweets or tuck.The food is very healthy and the kids have no other choice.

[Tulip]

I have just proven the point to myself. I have just been dying for a choccy something, all gone (blooming teenagers grrr) so I have just had a tangerine as there was nothing else. If I need that chocolate bar I will have to go to the shops and I can't be bothered.

[JaneL]

I think the emphasis on catgegorising food as 'good' or 'bad' is only contributing to the problem here. Food is food. It's fuel. It has no moral properties. One of the biggest things that feeds into the ED cycle and keeps it going is GUILT and often people who are prone to EDs see things in a very black and white way. If you label a food as forbidden or talk about it as being 'bad', someone with an ED is likely to see themselves as 'bad' for eating that food. And the guilt from that leads to more self-hatred and self-punishment, feelings which reinforce the ED.

 

Yes, there are some foods which have more nutrients, vitamins etc but I don't think they should be set up as good and something with more sugar/fat should be set up as bad. Probably a home-made cake has more nutrition than a McDonalds salad...

 

Everything in moderation, I say.

 

I don't know where these moral associations with food came from, but I wish I knew how our society could get itself out of this mess. Unfortunately, it seems too deeply embedded to ever be got rid of

Edited May 6, 2012 by JaneL

[Anna C]

You are spot on with regards to "everything in moderation". I learned, years and years ago, that I often really want something sweet after lunch or dinner, but that if I literally had one chocolate, or two squares max, that was sufficient. I also had to learn to realise when I had had enough and that leaving food because you're full is not a waste.

 

I haven't been able to exercise in the conventional sense for years because of my spinal injuries and nerve damage. So I don't have a big appetite because I can't burn it off. I am overweight but not obese but the main thing for me is that I eat healthily all the time, so lost some weight since my last surgery but now my weight has stayed the same for over 2 years. Our food is mostly organic, with as few preservatives and artificial additives as possible, and we all eat a lot of fruit and veg, fibre, and have a really balanced diet. But once every couple of months we have Burger King. In the house are funsized twix or tiny snack bags of maltesers, which usually last us ages. I've been trying to educate dd that dieting and then going back to "normal" leads to yoyo dieting and is not good for you. For her it's a case of eating enough good, healthy, low-mid GI food to fuel her dancing, but not forbidding occasional junky meals or funsized sweets after meals.

 

At the moment she has a very balanced attitude to food - eating enough to fuel the exercise, but maintaining a slim but healthy weight. Fingers crossed we can keep it that way! But I do think that if she were away at school she probably wouldn't make those choices for herself. Until dancers are old enough to do so, I think the schools should be guiding them.

[aileen]

I think that the schools are between a rock and a hard place. If they try to restrict what children eat by commenting on portion sizes, choices of healthy versus unhealthy food they may fear making the children paranoid about what they eat (and be criticised by the parents). If they make food of all types freely available some children will eat unhealthily and gain weight which could result in them being assessed out (with the suspicion that it was for a weight related reason) or, if a comment is made about weight, beginning to diet which might in turn lead to an ED. I also think that it has to be acknowledged that some children will put on weight in their teens even if they are eating healthily because that is the way that they are constitutionally. Those young people will, unfortunately, always struggle to maintain the very slim physique required by classical ballet. I agree with an earlier poster that DCs shouldn't be going on diets before auditions for schools because the DC may then feel under pressure to stay at the audition weight once s/he is in the school leading to anxiety about weight and, possibly, further problems. However, it is completely understandable why some (many) DCs do lose weight before auditions. I'm certainly not criticising them.